all you workout buffs..

[VBNSX]

I'm on week 8 here... been doing a pretty good program with a personal twist..

M - upper body workout (all around) + 10 min run
T - 30 min run
W - Arms + 10 min run
R - 30 min run
F - chest/back + 10 min run
Sat - Legs

Oh yeah.. and everyday I do crunches on a machine at 100lbs, upping the reps when possible.

here's my question.. I go to the gym and notoriously see many people who have been doing this for years.. but they don't have a nicely defined body (not to say I'm checking them out but I am curious as to why a year or so of training and they don't have what I'm trying to attain). What does it take to remove the love handles??? The legs, chest, arms are doing well.. but the love handles.. ugh.. just ruins the whole thing..

Please assist.. trying to find the key here..

next thing - my diet is cleaned up also.. every so often (very rare) i'll go out to eat some good stuff... but that's just so i don't go crazy...

I'm going for tone and not mass btw..

thanks a bunch,
x

 

[NetViper]

I'm on week 8 here... been doing a pretty good program with a personal twist..

M - upper body workout (all around) + 10 min run
T - 30 min run
W - Arms + 10 min run
R - 30 min run
F - chest/back + 10 min run
Sat - Legs

I am not a personal trainer by any means, but I will give you my thoughts.

First, the 10 min run is a waste of time. You would be better off stretching for 10 minutes.

Second, if I were going for tone, I would probably do a full body workout 3x per week and up the cardio to 45 mins of the eliptical machine with your heart rate staying in the Fat Burning Zone. Do 3 sets of 10-12 reps on each exercise. Swtich up your exercises every month. Hit the abs and lower back at least 3x per week.

Third, Focus on form and not weight. (not that you are not). Doing things correctly makes a huge difference. From my experience, most people in the gym have no idea what they are doing.

You said your diet is good, which is obviously a huge part of it and you have that under control.

Again, I think you see the same people over and over not getting any better because they have no idea what they are doing. They do all the exercises wrong, they don't do enough cardio, and they wonder why they don't improve.

 

[VBNSX]

Again, I think you see the same people over and over not getting any better because they have no idea what they are doing. They do all the exercises wrong, they don't do enough cardio, and they wonder why they don't improve.

Yeah.. that's why i figured i'd ask here.... see what the scoop is..

x

 

[redshift]

Good input by NetViper... here are my thoughts:

Intensity is key. Workout hard every time you hit the gym. You are doing a training split but you left out shoulders; maybe consider doing [shoulders & triceps] and [back & biceps] on separate days. Then you can workout [chest & calves] and still have a full day for [quads & hamstrings] (legs).

The only way to get rid of the love handles is to lose fat. The only way to lose fat is to burn more calories than you take in during the day. Diet is about 90% of bodybuilding (which you are doing - even if you're just toning up).

You can loose fat without doing cardio, but it is more difficult. You should probably be doing about 45 minutes of interval running and 15-20 minutes instead of those 10 minute days. Do 8-12 sets per body part (i.e. for biceps do 4 sets of 6-12 reps of both standing barbell curls and preacher curls - that makes 8 sets). For larger body parts (i.e. back) do the same 4 sets of 6-12 reps but 3 total exercise - for 12 total sets.

This is all in gross overgeneralization because I don't know your body type or current level of fitness. However this tends to be a good starting point.

PM me if you have more specific questions :biggrin: .

 

[docjohn]

IMO the average person who goes to the gym wastes time,does not push themselves,sticks too long to a suboptimal routine.Also the average person who does workout will unconciously eat more or will justify eating more because they were in the gym,thier total caloric intake iether stays the same or increases,thus no weight loss.It helps to have a training partner.

 

[Understudy]

I would agree with NetViper's suggestions on your own program. If you want tone definitely hit the cardio pretty hard and generally do higher reps with lower weight like he said. Form is definitely key, especially to avoid injury. However, you will see quite a few heavy lifters (eg. bodybuilders) cheat on their form in their efforts to build mass, so don't necessarily copy those guys/gals (it really is almost necessary in their case though, so not knocking their mass building programs).

The love handle area can be quite difficult, but there are a lot of good ab programs out there if you do some research. Find some good ab workouts and hit them hard (not necessarily crunch machines because there are a lot of options that will work well for abs), particularly the obliques.

You asked the question about why others at the gym don't achieve their desired results. IMO, most of this comes from two reasons: 1) people don't work out nearly hard enough (again, not talking about weights, but pushing themselves fully to exhaustion) & 2) it's mostly their eating habits*!!! People's eating habits are generally crappy. To really be in top shape and reduce fat/gain tone people need to be strict with their diets, eliminating things like soda. Then once they hit their goals they can allow some more leniency with their diets. But people can't be strict for awhile and will constantly cheat with their food intake.

I don't think that people working out with bad form is limiting their weight loss/tone potential too much (but can be unsafe physically), unless they're totally screwed up. This is a bit more important when trying to build muscle because without proper form you're not targeting the appropriate muscles that the exercise is designed for.

Anyway, good luck with your workouts and meeting your goals.

 

[VBNSX]

yeah.. i am a small framed person to begin with... 5' 7"... when i started i weight about 177... i went down to about 168 in the first two weeks (water weight, etc.) and i've been there since.. (i guess the replacement of fat w/ muscle)...

In a good tone i have stopped drinking soda... since i'm asian i lessened the amount of rice i eat to something within spec.. (not carb cut but reduction)...

Generally when i lift i usually get to muscle failure.. (not pull) just that point where you can't physically do anymore b/c the muscles just won't give it.. a good feeling.. i like it..

question.. how come it was suggested to do shoulder/tri then chest/bi? I was told awhile back to always work out the opposite end muscles in the same day..

chest/back
tri/bi..

etc..

thanks for all the input.. this is helping a lot... i think i'm going to start counting my food intake.. just to be curious what it is..

maybe monitoring it to just what i eat isn't enough??
x

 

[nsxsupra]

If you want cut and very nice deatail, full 6packs, cardio is the answer. There is no short cuts. 30 minutes twice a week is simply not enough.

1 hour ~ 1.5 hour of cardio per day (every single day, no day off) while keeping within your target heart rate zone will allow you to be/maintain extremely cut and defined, and you can eat virtually whatever you want.

or

45 minute to 1 hour a day of cardio with semi-healthy diet.

Everyone has different metabolism rate, what works for one person may not work for others.

 

[jlindy]

If you like to eat rice, you need to switch it to brown rice which is much better for you. As far as people working out for years and not getting toned, I agree with others. People plateau in a lazy routine that doesn't exhaust their muscles with monotonous repetition and bad form. (swing on a curl, bounce a bench off their chest, never increase weight or vary reps) The supporting muscles learn to only work hard enough to get it done and without isolating the intended muscle. Also, people eat like CRAP which I can be guilty of occasionally as well. Diet is the biggest key to being toned excluding being blessed with a good metabolism and coupled with higher rep exercises. I don't agree that 10 minutes of cardio is a waste of time, but I do think that you could start off every morning with 10 minutes of cardio followed by good training when you normally do it. On the days designated for cardio, I would skip the warm up and hit it hard. I would also cross train so that your muscles dont get bored and learn to cheat.

 

[Jin1976]

There are some exercise to remove the love handle. You can use any wooden bar (broom stick). Put it on you shoulder and your hands on each end. Twist your body left and right.

On the side note, proper diet. Not too much carbohydrate intake. Running or jogging helps. You can also take some mass reducing suppliments. Don't do too much sit ups as you can hurt your lower back.

In a true bodybuilding you just eat almost anything (the aim is to gain mass). Then when you are going for competition to start to cut lean. Control the amount of sugar, salt, carbo and so on. They also take GH (growth hormone).

You can always look at this forum for some tips and pictures.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/

 

[95NSXT]

I'd go with everyone else and say cardio is key. I think it depends on the person's body type as well. I'm naturally skinny and I do little cardio due to being busy/lazy and I eat a lot of carbs and have a solid 6pack/obliques, but with little love handles. Cardio would probably eliminate those handles though. I try to eat pretty cleanly, no candy, pop, rare fast food, no junk food. I do eat a lot of carbs though. I'm trying to cleanly gain weight right now.

Your split doesn't look too bad. I personally would make sure I hit all my muscles. Make sure you switch it up every so often to shock your muscles. Like do dumbell bench instead of barbell, etc.

I workout at a college university and I think a lot of it is discipline with diet. I'm sure a lot of them drink beer, don't sleep enough, eat junk, and that's why they aren't losing/toning as fast.

 

[redshift]

There is some good advice here and some not so good advice (sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings).

Targeting your abs WILL NOT get rid of your love handles or reduce the fat around your midsection. There is simply no such thing as spot training to reduce fat. The only way is to create a caloric deficit from day to day and hopefully burning fat instead of muscle. Cardio IS NOT necessarily the only way to loose that fat. I have [and known MANY others who have] gotten down to <5% bodyfat using only high intensity resistance training. Lifting heavy weights will not necessary get you big and muscular... as a matter of fact, if you don't get enough calories you will NOT grow no matter how much/often you lift.

I'm assuming you're in the beginning stages. For that reason it is important to incorporate a lot of resistance training... you can do high reps/low weight or low reps/heavy weight... either way will work for you in this stage. When you lift heavy and have a caloric deficit you will gain muscle (slightly) and strength (more importantly) but not the kind of bulk you see on bodybuilders. If you're looking to tone then I'm assuming you want moderate muscle gain while also reducing bodyfat. If that is the case then it would be a good idea to go heavy on the weights; Asians tend to be hardgainers.

I did suggest back/biceps and chest/tricepts on the same... you'll read all kinds of literature saying that opposing groups is the way to go when working out. This is the current trend, but there are also MANY other proven methods. By consolidating back/biceps you are already working bicepts moderatly with your back and then finishing them off by targeting them directly - good when you're starting out. I think it is genearally a good idea to start with the basics and do more advanced techniques as you yourself get more advanced.

I've been doing this for a long time so if you have any questions please feel free to PM me.

 

[soon2B]

Eating is a huge factor. If you want tone lower weight high reps. If you want bulk high weight low reps. As said before you have to push beyond what your body is telling you. Most people stop when they start to feel it, thats when you have to push more. Good luck on the work out.

 

[transdzn]

Your missing the key factor also... Your age. If your below the stepping stone in life, 30 years old- than you'll have an easier time burning those love handles away. Running does wonder, I cannot stress that enough :smile:

 

[dave22]

Your missing the key factor also... Your age.

I think he JUST turned 27

 

[VBNSX]

I think he JUST turned 27

He's right too... 25th.. i became 27..

I've seen a few people I haven't seen in a long time (primarily female) and most have noticed that (after the hug :biggrin: ) that it's easier to get their arms around..

I guess that's a good sign..

Thanks for all the advice.. I'm going to re-assess my workout and see what I can work out accordingly.

x

 

[NetViper]

I don't agree that 10 minutes of cardio is a waste of time, but I do think that you could start off every morning with 10 minutes of cardio followed by good training when you normally do it. On the days designated for cardio, I would skip the warm up and hit it hard. I would also cross train so that your muscles dont get bored and learn to cheat.

If the 10 min run was done as a warm up then yes, it has value. The way it was written it looked like it was done after the workout. If that is the case, then I still maintain the time would be better spent stretching.

 

[docjohn]

There is no mystery as to why opposing muscle groups are encouraged.You tend to overwork muscle if you do all push or all pull exercises in the same sitting.If you want to gain size then you want to hit or isolate flexor or extender groups when they have the strength to do so not after they were recruited helping out with 2 other sets of another muscle group.Your age is in your favor so read up on the thread we had going about losing wieght in the gym earlier this year :wink: Regular soda is the bain of our existance ,it is the cigarete of beverages!

 

[nuccaJB]

So far Redshift is giving you awesome advice. The thing that I would add is that you should make sure you watch your sodium intake, that will make you retain the most water. The problem with our diets is that it is pretty hard to get low sodium. Too many carbs will also make you retain water. If you really want to burn some fat, do your cardio first thing in the morning and don't eat until after the cardio. Your body is fasting/fat use mode from sleep, as soon as you eat you change that metabolic state.

Redshift is right on when it comes to high intensity weight traing and no cardio and still getting lean. I am built like you, 5'7" and 170 when at 7% body fat. I rarely do cardio. I usually go to the gym choose my muscle group, i.e. chest/tris, and work the hell out of them for 35-45 mins. I vary from high weight and low reps or moderate rate higher reps, short resting cycle (1 min between sets) and the straight to the next exercise. When I leave the gym I am super pumped and my muscle group is fatigued. If it is hard for you to add muscle mass you do not want to spend too much time in the gym. As you add muscle mass you increase your matabolism and you will shed the pounds better.

Make sure you don't give in to the major hunger that will start. As your body uses fat stores it stimulates hunger, if you give in it will counter your work. Keep your diet clean with good amounts of protien, highly complex carbs, and good fats.

 

[redshift]

There is no mystery as to why opposing muscle groups are encouraged.You tend to overwork muscle if you do all push or all pull exercises in the same sitting.If you want to gain size then you want to hit or isolate flexor or extender groups when they have the strength to do so not after they were recruited helping out with 2 other sets of another muscle group.Your age is in your favor so read up on the thread we had going about losing wieght in the gym earlier this year :wink: Regular soda is the bain of our existance ,it is the cigarete of beverages!

Good info, there is certainly no mystery involved in working opposing muscle groups. As a matter of fact, there is a lot of good evidence that shows tremendous results working out this way. I see no problem with it and even employ it quite frequently. I personally feel that working all "push" or all "pull" exercises is best as a beginner (maybe I'm a fundamentalist) as it uses the pre-exhaustion principle. I'm not saying that you should workout chest and shoulders on the same day... that might be a little too much extender. However, if you workout chest first then you are pre-exhausting your triceps. Then when you target your triceps later in the workout you have to use more strength and intensity to "rep out." If you worked biceps instead then of triceps then you would NOT be using pre-exhaustion and your biceps would be fresh to workout. This is good except for the fact that you're already fatigued from the difficult chest workout. Now your limiting factor may not be muscular failure but muscular endurance - especially as a beginner. Also if you're really not trying to build huge arms, then working them out fresh isn't really necessary. There are a lot of good techniques out there, it's best to find one that works the best for you - then change it a few months down the line. :biggrin:

You may try getting a subscription to Men's health/fitness AND Muscle & Fitness - although the latter is a bodybuilder's magazine, it gives the most direct and unbiased advice.

Another key factor that I didn't mention, and I don't think anybody else has, is your meal frequency. You should strive for 5 - 6 small meals per day; this will dramatically help your metabolism and keep your body in an anabolic state. Make protein a huge part of those 6 meals as it is a must in toning (building) and fat burning... as a bonus it makes you feel fuller longer.

 

[docjohn]

I agree with the above :smile: Now lets all skip out of work and get to the gym

 

[RPM217]

I agree with the above :smile: Now lets all skip out of work and get to the gym

Come on DocJohn, we all know that all you do is look at pictures all day long, you call that work?!? Although, the way this market has been lately, I'm with you, instead of going to the gym at 6:30am daily, it makes more sense to go now, and "skip out of work" :wink:

 

[NetViper]

I agree with the above :smile: Now lets all skip out of work and get to the gym

I take wednesdays off. :smile: Walking Lunges with the 75lbs db's kicked my a$$. :biggrin:

 

[khappucino]

haha u should try the one set method :biggrin:

1 set of exercise X at a weight where you can ONLY do 12 reps...

of course not as good as more reps, some studies have shown that
this type of muscle loading can be 90% as effective as doing more sets at less intensity, just my 2 cents.... :biggrin:

this saves time for more fun stuff like World of Warcraft and going out :biggrin:

 

[redshift]

1 set of exercise X at a weight where you can ONLY do 12 reps...

I don't get it... there is no instance where you should do fewer reps than you are capable of (+/-). That means that if you can do 12 reps with a particular weight, then do 12 (11 if you don't want to go to complete muscular failure)... don't do fewer though. I highly doubt the 1 set method would be effective at all - maybe in one independent study where they measured maximum heart rate - or maybe if you're a powerlifter. Maybe there is some truth behind it though... you SHOULD treat every set as if it is your only set.

Of course, this method does give you more time for the finer things in life... like going out and what not. :biggrin: :biggrin: