Acura RL caliper retrofit

[BrakeExpert]

Hello everyone. I've been a reader of nsxprime.com for a while now. Here is my first post... my retrofit of the new Acura RL calipers. I'm a big advocate of OEM Honda upgrades. They use OEM parts, there a lot cheaper than aftermarket setups, more powerful and reliable than big brake kits, and require inexpensive replacement parts as well as access to any type of pad/rotor style. The largest OEM Acura brakes are from the new Acura RL, a whole 12.6" rotor, and a BIG pad. This uses an aluminum 4 piston caliper. I've just about completed this setup for civics with the stock 9.5" brakes per request using an 11.8" rotor, but for the NSX, this setup will use a 12.6" rotor. I don't own an NSX yet, but have a Honda Civic that I am currently running 97+ NSX front brakes on.

So, here's the main event. Weighing in at just over 8lbs loaded, all the way from Advics....here he is...the Acura RL caliper!

The 12.6" rotor

This is over an 11.8" rotor, redone to 4x100 (for older DX civics).

I aim to do a write up in the future, and retrofit them to my car. I don't have any pictures of them on an NSX because I just don't have any friends or even any contacts in the crowd around here with an NSX, which sucks. This caliper is bigger (and better) than the new TL Brembo setup, it is not the same.

This is the 11.8" form with the old civic DX knuckles.

This is not a for sale thread, but if anyone is interested, I do sell the RL calipers, brackets, brake lines, and redrilled rotors (the new RL is 5x120 but uses the same 70mm centerbore as the NSX.


Here is the brackets bolted to the caliper.

And what has been made.

Here's what I have now, 11.8" rotors for a DX civic.


This is the setup the NSX will be using:

This is the setup mounted over the bigger 5-lug hub. The rotor is 12.6" diameter, 28mm thick. Because of its offset, the NSX may have to use a different rotor (like a 2-piece one with a short hat.) This one is bolted to a 91-95 Legend. Sorry I don't have a picture with a blank rotor right now, I built that for someone who explicitly asked for em (I do reccomend blank rotors).The rotor used will be the same on the NSX, however because of the dimensions of the RL caliper, they bolt behind the knuckle tabs. The NSX is a little different from any other Honda, especially the suspension and knuckles, so I need to do some more homework to see how much I need to modify these brackets to fit the calipers to the NSX.

I realize there is a lot of discussion about the effectiveness of this upgrade.
The stock calipers are about 16lbs I was told on the 91 NSX, and a bit heavier on the 97+. These calipers are about 8lbs loaded from the RL. The stock 12.6" rotor on the RL is just under 20lbs compared to the 11.8" NSX rotor at close to 17lbs and is 28mm thick, so its a hell of a heatsink. Brake fade should reduce dramatically, especially if you go with an aftermarket rotor that uses curved vanes. If anyone is not track racing and looking for perfect bias, this would be a great front bolt on upgrade. If you are looking for optimal braking, I would reccomend an adjustable prop. valve for altering your own bias, but I don't have any specific formulas to figure that stuff out.

Well I hope this might be a nice upgrade for those of you who aren't totally satisfied with your NSX brakes. I hope I meet your standards on this forum. Questions or comments are welcome!

 

[stuntman]

First off: Welcome to Prime!

What is your background in Brake systems? Having the username "BrakeExpert" might result in some conflict so it's better to get your experience out of the way early on.

Here is my first post... my retrofit of the new Acura RL calipers. I'm a big advocate of OEM Honda upgrades. They use OEM parts, there a lot cheaper than aftermarket setups, more powerful and reliable than big brake kits, and require inexpensive replacement parts as well as access to any type of pad/rotor style.

What's your reasoning behind OEM being more 'powerful' and reliable than aftermarket BBKs? And what do you mean by "powerful"?

Thanks!

 

[BrakeExpert]

Hi. Well, this is my screenname on a few other forums. Having been called a brake expert on several others prompted my name change. I currently sell redrilled brake rotors and machined 23T, 28T, and 97+ NSX brackets to those with Civics, Integras, and Accords who are looking for brake upgrades. Since the 4-lug hubs Honda make are usually shorter (shorter track for the car) certain parts need to be machined to fit. I personally have run about 8 different brake seutps on my Civic from the stock 9.5" fronts to the 10.3" fronts, and the 11.1" NSX brakes and now at the 11.8" NSX front brakes and RSX Type-S rear brakes, I'm trying to retrofit the rear NSX calipers onto my rear spindle.

When I say these are more reliable than aftermarket, its saying that I'm using an OEM Acura part, which most of us can agree is pretty rock solid. When I said its more powerful than the brembo setup, it is. The brembo rotor is 25mm thick and 12.2", this is a 28mm thick and 12.6" rotor. This pad is also a much better design. Not only is it taller and bigger in surface area, but the Brembo pad has almost a pie-wedge pad shape, whereas the Advics caliper uses a typical Honda shape (which are very good) incorporating a 2nd bite line, uneven obtuse angles to reduce noise, and an overall pad shape designed to promote more even radial heat distribution, reducing the possibility of hot spots on the rotor.

I negated to mention that this setup requires different brake lines, as every Honda uses banjo bolts except for this caliper which has a screw in hardline (it needs a hardline and softline for the front, however a rear softline for a Honda Civic with rear drum brakes will work since its female to female).
Also, the RL rotor may be a better choice. The stock NSX rotor has a short hat, placing the rotor (and thus caliper) close to the wheel. The RL caliper is much wider, so a taller hat would bring the caliper more inward. If anyone wants to take pictures of there NSX front knuckle with the caliper off (and perferably rotor on) I'd appreciate it and may help me figure out if the brackets I built can be machined to fit.

 

[stuntman]

I currently sell redrilled brake rotors and machined 23T, 28T, and 97+ NSX brackets to those with Civics, Integras, and Accords who are looking for brake upgrades.

Re-drilled rotors?

When I said its more powerful than the brembo setup, it is.

How? (What aspect)?

The brembo rotor is 25mm thick and 12.2", this is a 28mm thick and 12.6" rotor. This pad is also a much better design. Not only is it taller and bigger in surface area, but the Brembo pad has almost a pie-wedge pad shape, whereas the Advics caliper uses a typical Honda shape (which are very good) incorporating a 2nd bite line, uneven obtuse angles to reduce noise, and an overall pad shape designed to promote more even radial heat distribution, reducing the possibility of hot spots on the rotor.

Um, last time I checked: Brembo's "Lotus" BBK had a 328mm rotor (12.9") that was 28mm thick. So the Brembo kit is 0.3" larger in diameter and just as wide as the RL.

The pads are pie-shaped for a reason. The outer edge of the rotors' surface has a lot more surface area than the inner edge. For even distribution of force, for cooling purposes across the rotor's surface. Brembo has been involved in motorsports for a long time, I personally have used most of their products and thought very highly of them. Granted, OEM can be viewed as good and bad, reliable but sometimes not able to handle track abuse (but in most cases they can). -not saying that the RL calipers can't, but to first off give wrong specs/numbers and to then give unjustified statements that X is better than Y... You're going to have to bring more conclusive facts (and correct figures) to make your argument stand.

You may be the 'brake expert' for civics and accords by retrofitting NSX calipers on them, but their is a lot of testing and development that goes into a well-balanced, proper braking system. You have to understand the market you are now dealing with are owners of Japan's only Supercar. If anything, putting RL brakes (even if better) is kind of a step-down.

OEM brakes are good for almost everyone who tracks their car (with proper pads and fluid), especially the 97+. And those pushing high HP #s and who track their car often would take the step up to a industry-leading BBK producer (Stop Tech, Brembo, AP). You may find this to be a hard market.

 

[charles]

finally, i've been thinking about this retrofit since they came out.

 

[stuntman]

finally, i've been thinking about this retrofit since they came out.

Why? What do you want to get out of a brake upgrade?

Do you track your car, are you noticing fade, what tires/brake pads/fluid are you running?

 

[socalx]

I have noticed two seperate brake consumers out there for the nsx. Performance and those that want to upgrade the look.

i personally am in the performance category, so i have brembo indy calipers at all four corners with 1000 / in suspension, sways etc.

However, i think a lot of owners (perhaps the majority) are not in this category and are simply looking for a brake upgrade like this that looks way better then stock, uses acura parts that can be purchased at the dealer and don't have the performance downsides. (dust, noise etc)

subscribed.. as i'm interested to see what you can offer. i think alot of people will like the RL caliper on the nsx.

 

[stuntman]

However, i think a lot of owners (perhaps the majority) are not in this category and are simply looking for a brake upgrade like this that looks way better then stock, uses acura parts that can be purchased at the dealer and don't have the performance downsides. (dust, noise etc)

Maybe he does have a market...

 

[BrakeExpert]

Yes, redrilled rotors, as in drilling extra lug holes to fit a different bolt pattern.

And you were mistaken. The TL Brembo brakes are 12.2" in diameter and 25mm thick. You are refering to an aftermarket setup they made, I was saying this was better than a stock TL Brembo setup, and at about a grand compared to the other aftermarket setups, this is cheaper.

You are wrong about the pads. All pads are wider at the top because there is more surface area as you move out radially, of course. A straight pie wedge of a pad gives straight lines for initial contact and trailing edge. What the RL caliper has is a pad which is like a pie wedge, but with extra material in the shape of an obtuse angle on the leading and trailing edges. This reduces vibration, and consequently, noise. (for OEM and ceramic pads, not full metal pads as they are usually noisy all the time by nature.) I didn't say they weren't reliable, just that this gives you an OEM option that some may prefer to some other fully aftermarket brake companies.

I fully understand the testing and development of a braking system and I did mention that I do not have the numbers to tell you what rear system to pair this with to net the complete optimal brake bias. The RL brakes use a larger rotor, bigger pad, and lighter caliper. Trust me, especially for 91 NSXs, this is a step up. If you would like, you can also get the RL sized rotors with curved vanes.
Yes, this can be more popular of an upgrade for those who are going for aestetics, as with 18" wheels, the stock brakes do look a bit small.

 

[WingZ]

Yes, redrilled rotors, as in drilling extra lug holes to fit a different bolt pattern.

And you were mistaken. The TL Brembo brakes are 12.2" in diameter and 25mm thick. You are refering to an aftermarket setup they made, I was saying this was better than a stock TL Brembo setup, and at about a grand compared to the other aftermarket setups, this is cheaper.

You are wrong about the pads. All pads are wider at the top because there is more surface area as you move out radially, of course. A straight pie wedge of a pad gives straight lines for initial contact and trailing edge. What the RL caliper has is a pad which is like a pie wedge, but with extra material in the shape of an obtuse angle on the leading and trailing edges. This reduces vibration, and consequently, noise. (for OEM and ceramic pads, not full metal pads as they are usually noisy all the time by nature.) I didn't say they weren't reliable, just that this gives you an OEM option that some may prefer to some other fully aftermarket brake companies.

I fully understand the testing and development of a braking system and I did mention that I do not have the numbers to tell you what rear system to pair this with to net the complete optimal brake bias. The RL brakes use a larger rotor, bigger pad, and lighter caliper. Trust me, especially for 91 NSXs, this is a step up. If you would like, you can also get the RL sized rotors with curved vanes.
Yes, this can be more popular of an upgrade for those who are going for aestetics, as with 18" wheels, the stock brakes do look a bit small.

Sounds interesting. I find the stock rotors and calipers work great at the track with different fluid and pads. Do they that you know of sell a high performance pad for the RL? Also do you think you'll ever do this upgrade for the 97+?

 

[scorp965]

It seems the concern is he doesn't have an nsx to develop his brackets on, if there is an nsx owner local to him perhaps they could swing by and let him take a few measurements? Make a thread in the regional forum to see if there is anyone nearby who can assist in this way. I think you will find good interest for this kit, especially after a few positive installations.

The key benefit I see is the use of an OEM caliper - this means the caliper is well manufactured, by an OEM acura supplier, so it is structurally sound - in addition it will be easy to find replacement pads, produced by a variety of aftermarket companies or OEM pads, for the calipers, and, as it is a stock street caliper, it will have full dust seals, unlike other calipers designed for a race application, such as willwood. From a brake performance standpoint the two concerns are going to be brake fade, and stopping power - brake fade will be reduced, as the rotor size is larger, and will therefore take longer to overheat; stopping power will be increased through the use of a larger surface area pad, which creates a situation where there is more material in contact with the disc. In addition, one of the concerns with braking pressure is caliper flex - given this caliper is a 4-piston unit the pressure should be more evenly distributed across the caliper, resulting in less flex, and more pressure.

So, if this braking system is competitively priced, uses products intended for street use by Acura, has good parts availability with regard to brake pads, reduces the potential for braking fade after sustained use through its larger rotor, and has more pressure behind more pad in contact with the brake disc, resulting in increased stopping power, where is the downside? I see two items of concern, both related to the rotor.

The obvious issue is its redrilled state - this is required for the application, given the difference in bolt patterns, but I look at the spacing between bolts and see a huge concern for cracking under hard use. A brake rotor failure is not a trivial concern, it could lead to a serious car-destroying accident, or worse. The other concern is the increase in rotational mass. This is a 1-piece rotor, so you're sticking a lot of additional steel on each corner of the car. This will be an issue with many aftermarket brake setups, but it is usually addressed by including 2-piece rotors. The aluminum hat removes a larger percentage of the increased mass, and can also contribute to increased heat dissipation.

As I see it you can go in one of two directions - you can contract a local manufacturer of aftermarket rotors, and have a quantity of rotors made to your specification, with the correct centerbore, correct retaining bolt position, and correct bolt pattern, but in the increased size. This is probably the easiest method to pursue, a few emails back and forth, a bit of cash up front to produce the rotors, and you're in business selling bolt on kits with no machine work. The other, slightly more intensive option, is to produce your own custom aluminum hats, intended to fit the nsx, and attach to the larger rotor disc required for the braking system. This eliminates the weight concern, eliminates the redrilling concern, and produces an excellent package for the nsx - it also requires a bit of design, a competent machine shop, and more initial investment, in both time and material, before you're banging out kits.

 

[PhiAlpha44]

You have to understand the market you are now dealing with are owners of Japan's only Supercar. If anything, putting RL brakes (even if better) is kind of a step-down.

I disagree with this slightly. Just because the NSX is a very high-performance vehicle and the RL is a family sedan.... I don't think that means the brakes from a 2007 RL would be of a lower grade than my 1991 NSX.

 

[Heeltoe914]

I disagree with this slightly. Just because the NSX is a very high-performance vehicle and the RL is a family sedan.... I don't think that means the brakes from a 2007 RL would be of a lower grade than my 1991 NSX.

+1 many things get better over time. I truly would be interested in a set like this.

 

[BrakeExpert]

The RL is a family sedan? I dunno, I drove one and its more like a 5-series killer.

EBC already makes performance pads for the RL, and since Spoon decided to play with this car, I'm sure soon there will be a myriad of brake pad options.

To address the issue of redrilled rotors, let me clarify. I am talking about redrilling the hat to accomidate different lug studs. The stock lug holes are about 1/2" as on almost every car out there. The lug studs don't touch the rotor at all, the holes are there ONLY to allow the lug stud to get to the wheel. Making those holes bigger is no problem, there is no force exerted on them. The pressure of the wheel is still dispersed throughout the hat of the rotor (or whatever the wheel's fascia is on that area.) The hat of a rotor does not crack. The surface may, and cross-drilled rotors can amplify this, but not extra lug holes, this is not a cause for concern, but cross-drilled rotors is.

Since the knuckles use the same mounting points on the 91 and 97, this 12.6" RL upgrade will work on the 97+ NSX models as well.

The machine shop I use is small, I'm not like a business. Designing a 2-piece rotor myself will take me some time to develop, but I could do it. I can get the proper grade aluminum, and would essentially be cutting the hat off an RL rotor and attaching the aluminum hat and rotor with some small grade 10 bolts, but honestly I would need to talk to my materials expert on this. I've seen some 2-piece rotors break, so for me to do this would either use a dense enough aluminum that it wouldn't really be worth it, or to use an aluminum so hard that it would become a very expensive rotor, both in cost for the metal and the cost of having it machined (stuff like a silicated aluminum disc rotor has to be turned on a lathe with a diamond bit.)

 

[stuntman]

The RL is a family sedan? I dunno, I drove one and its more like a 5-series killer.

LOL.

Designing a 2-piece rotor myself will take me some time to develop, but I could do it. I can get the proper grade aluminum, and would essentially be cutting the hat off an RL rotor and attaching the aluminum hat and rotor with some small grade 10 bolts, but honestly I would need to talk to my materials expert on this.

Takes more than a guy in a garage to test and develop a safe and reliable 2-pc rotor.








Bunch of goofballs...

 

[stuntman]

And you were mistaken. The TL Brembo brakes are 12.2" in diameter and 25mm thick. You are refering to an aftermarket setup they made, I was saying this was better than a stock TL Brembo setup, and at about a grand compared to the other aftermarket setups, this is cheaper.

I was referring to the Brembo BBK for the NSX, not the TL.

What the RL caliper has is a pad which is like a pie wedge, but with extra material in the shape of an obtuse angle on the leading and trailing edges. This reduces vibration, and consequently, noise. (for OEM and ceramic pads, not full metal pads as they are usually noisy all the time by nature.) I didn't say they weren't reliable, just that this gives you an OEM option that some may prefer to some other fully aftermarket brake companies.

Tapered pad edges do not give any performance advantage.

I fully understand the testing and development of a braking system and I did mention that I do not have the numbers to tell you what rear system to pair this with to net the complete optimal brake bias. The RL brakes use a larger rotor, bigger pad, and lighter caliper. Trust me, especially for 91 NSXs, this is a step up. If you would like, you can also get the RL sized rotors with curved vanes.
Yes, this can be more popular of an upgrade for those who are going for aestetics, as with 18" wheels, the stock brakes do look a bit small.

I think that is your market, until we have some feedback from a credible source who tracks their car with your setup.

 

[titaniumdave]

You are wrong about the pads. All pads are wider at the top because there is more surface area as you move out radially, of course. A straight pie wedge of a pad gives straight lines for initial contact and trailing edge. What the RL caliper has is a pad which is like a pie wedge, but with extra material in the shape of an obtuse angle on the leading and trailing edges. This reduces vibration, and consequently, noise. (for OEM and ceramic pads, not full metal pads as they are usually noisy all the time by nature.) I didn't say they weren't reliable, just that this gives you an OEM option that some may prefer to some other fully aftermarket brake companies.

The RL caliper uses a wedge shaped pad because all the pistons are the same size. The wedge shape you describe creates the differential forces on the pad/rotor contact area to reduce noise(the same thing you do on bicycle brake pads...). Brembo and most high end calipers are made with different diameter pistons to have the same effect and not create odd pad wear. Leading piston about 4 mm larger for most Brembo applications, stock NSX calipers also have differential sized pistons on the fronts.

 

[ericwgnsx]

How about this if you are going for looks? Get the Japanese version of the RL calipers. They most likely say "Honda" on them, since there is no Acura over there, yet. That would look awesome! I, like stuntman, am a little skeptical that they would work as well as the stock set-up, which is really quite good.

 

[BrakeExpert]

Well I can guarantee you they will work better than stock. And if your going for looks in that route, you'll need some stickers, etching, or paint cause the RL overseas is a "Legend" everywhere else, and those calipers don't say anything. In fact, the ACURA letters I think are actaully letters stuck on there, you can tell they weren't cast into the aluminum, as the surface is smooth and clear with aluminum lines under it or something.

 

[stuntman]

Well I can guarantee you they will work better than stock.

Pretty strong guarantee with no testing/understanding of the NSX braking system (nor the RL apparently)...

In fact, the ACURA letters I think are actually letters stuck on there, you can tell they weren't cast into the aluminum, as the surface is smooth and clear with aluminum lines under it or something.

You tell us, you have the calipers in hand/have installed them on civics. Are they cast in or is the lettering separate and attached with adhesive?

 

[PhiAlpha44]

Pretty strong guarantee with no testing/understanding of the NSX braking system (nor the RL apparently)...

Takes more than a guy in a garage to test and develop a safe and reliable 2-pc rotor. Bunch of goofballs...

Stunt, aren't you being just the slightest bit $hitty here? Why are you being so negative? People have been enamored with converting Porsche Cayenne brakes to an NSX application, I'm assuming a product from Acura would be a hell of a lot easier than criss crossing manufacturers. And I'm sure testing would be involved on these brakes, but he's not even TO THAT point yet. He's just saying he's got an idea, and the means to try it out. Why so much negative feedback? I'm happy somebody with the mechanical means out there is still trying to improve things on my car. My car that is out of production. Jeez, give a little positive feedback. Help out... stop crapping on the guy for trying to develop something.

 

[CarCrazed4Life]

Well I remember reading an NSX owner write an article here on Prime comparing a few different BBK setups in Europe (Germany?!?)

In the end, we found it wasn't the calipers that weren't upto the task, but the actualy size of the rotors being able to release heat. I think that is why RacingBrakes.com NSX BBK is so popular. And probably costs less while you get a 2peice rotor.

Rotors that don't require any drilling can be found from applications for the 91-95 Legend, and all S2000s IIRC. You can go buy any 328x28 rotor that has an S2000 specific hub available (ie Stoptech or Wilwood are good sources) and make a caliper bracket for it using your existing 97+ NSX Calipers.

The beauty about RB.com's kit is that they have not just a bracket adapter you see in the picture above (a block with 2 different sized holes to mount up) but an acutal resized bracket like you see originally on the NSX.

And I think that is why the reviews on them have been good.

Changing the calipers to something Brembo made for Acura is a cool idea and will probably sell because of it... But sourcing a Brembo TL Rotor and Caliper is easier because they are all hub centric to most other 5x4.5 Honda/Acura.

 

[BrakeExpert]

Hey stuntman, why are you assuming that I know nothing about the RL and NSXs braking system? Because the RL uses bigger pads and a bigger rotor and just as good of a shape, you think the NSX setup is better? Do me a favor. Start a thread, a new one, and tell me everything you know about the RL and NSX brakes because clearly you don't like what I'm saying. I will check on the ACURA letters later tonight.

 

[Swift]

dear brake expert,

I am on the legend forum as well...you have not shown a pic with the caliper w/adapter attached without the rotor so we can see how it is mounted. the reason i say this is because of the pics you have shown earlier dont show it. The RL caliper bolt holes are vertical while on any other honda caliper such as the nex they are horizontal so the bolt goes through the bracket and threads into the caliper.

and yes i know what i am talking about.

Ps- i can see how it can be adapted but whether or not you have done it is what i am questioning. (adapter bolted to knuckle)

 

[stuntman]

In the end, we found it wasn't the calipers that weren't upto the task, but the actualy size of the rotors being able to release heat. I think that is why RacingBrakes.com NSX BBK is so popular. And probably costs less while you get a 2peice rotor.

Agree that rotors need to dissipate heat, but disagree that calipers were up to the task. Also dosn't explain caliper flex = poor feel.

Stunt, aren't you being just the slightest bit $hitty here? Why are you being so negative? People have been enamored with converting Porsche Cayenne brakes to an NSX application, I'm assuming a product from Acura would be a hell of a lot easier than criss crossing manufacturers. And I'm sure testing would be involved on these brakes, but he's not even TO THAT point yet. He's just saying he's got an idea, and the means to try it out. Why so much negative feedback? I'm happy somebody with the mechanical means out there is still trying to improve things on my car. My car that is out of production. Jeez, give a little positive feedback. Help out... stop crapping on the guy for trying to develop something.

Well the Cayenne Turbo has amazing brakes... it'll out-brake my NSX (not really, but truly impressive for the suv's weight).

It would be a lot easier and staying to OEM has strong advantages. I'm just asking him to point out (and he did for the most part) about his experience -limited to civics. As well as his understanding of the NSXs brake system and his justification for his kit being a better balanced, higher performing brake system than a stock NSXs.

I'm not crapping on him. He said he has successfully done these kits on civics before. I am asking about his background and knowledge and for his justifications on how it'll be an improvement over the NSXs system. Some he has answered and justified, other's I do not agree with....

He definitely has a market (at first i was skeptical) but now he needs to justify and actually TEST his system -once he gets there. Otherwise if the bias is off, you'll find yourself activating ABS or locking your brakes (if ABS is removed) far earlier at a much lower threshold.

Hey stuntman, why are you assuming that I know nothing about the RL and NSXs braking system? Because the RL uses bigger pads and a bigger rotor and just as good of a shape, you think the NSX setup is better? Do me a favor. Start a thread, a new one, and tell me everything you know about the RL and NSX brakes because clearly you don't like what I'm saying. I will check on the ACURA letters later tonight.

Bigger dosn't = better. Like you said, you also need the right proportioning -at the foundation level. Designing a BBK or putting different calipers/rotors/etc... on your car requires a lot of development and understanding of what your doing. If you can't answer simple questions, you shouldn't be making the kit.

Sofar you have answered most of my questions, so you should feel confident. Afterall the point is to spread knowledge right?

So spread you knowledge of the kit your making and for the car you intend to sell to.


If someone was trying to sell you a 'magic pill' or weight-loss diet, wouldn't you want a doctor questioning them about the technology, development, facts behind their product? Or do you just believe everything you hear?









EDIT: Added due to relevance. -Recent post regarding suspension/why I comment/do what I do:

LoL, thanks! I'm just trying to dial in my car. Ever since I've been messing with it in terms of wheels/tires/coil overs/ ride height/swaybars, things are aren't are good as I hoped they'd be. I mean it feels worlds better than stock to me, but still not "perfect". I always end up feeling like it's lacking and MORE and MORE money disappears out of my pocket....ex, better stereo, better speakers, better wheels, better tires, better shocks/coil overs, swaybars, better hp mods, etc etc. This is an expensive endless cycle! lol Always in the pursuit of more!

As much as I like the ride of the stock sways, I HATE the handling. I'm thinking dali street/race matched set, which is stiffer than Type R & Zanardi, or dali street which is softer than the TypeR & Z sways. Hell, I'm going Dali street/race!

MJ's description of the matched sways he sells is EXACTLY what I want because his opinion of the stock handling of the nsx is exactly how I feel. Just a little bit of dialed in understeer in stock form. Then to just dial that OUT would be perfect. Which is actually what he describes his sways to do.

Do you know which set you're getting on your car?

Suspension (like anything else vehicle-dynamic related) takes a lot of development and understanding to get right. Often it takes a lot of trial and error, especially if you do not know the theory and have a full and complete understanding of what you're doing.

This is why I can be such a PITA on suspension (and most recently -Brakes) threads. Especially brakes which can greatly reduce the braking ability of your car if mixed and matched incorrectly, let alone a caliper or rotor that dosnt have development under it and has a higher risk of failing.

It's funny (not in a mean way) to see others like yourself try to go about finding their own 'best' setup. And you have an understanding of what youre doing -enough so where you're not chasing your tail, but with trial and error (unfortunately costing $) you'll get there... :biggrin: