ABS System - To have or not to have!

[Pccw]

i have a 91 with a leak ABS system, i know SOS is selling an upgrade kit to the newer version, but seriously, do i need the ABS system?
i've heard removing the ABS and it will mess up the traction control, and i will have poor handling on the track!
and i've heard its not safe it i drive it in the rain...(but i wouldn't drive my car in the rain anyways)

this ABS killer kit is what i am looking at
http://daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=2059

so what do you guys think, to have or not to have...?? what are the pros and cons?

 

[stuntman]

i have a 91 with a leak ABS system, i know SOS is selling an upgrade kit to the newer version, but seriously, do i need the ABS system?
i've heard removing the ABS and it will mess up the traction control, and i will have poor handling on the track!
and i've heard its not safe it i drive it in the rain...(but i wouldn't drive my car in the rain anyways)

this ABS killer kit is what i am looking at
http://daliracing.com/v666-5/catalog/index_browse_part.cfm?focus=2059

so what do you guys think, to have or not to have...?? what are the pros and cons?

The NA2 ABS system is much better than your archaic NA1 ABS system. I would say its worth it and if mine leaked, I would upgrade to the later models.

I wouldn't recommend deleting the ABS, especially on a street-driven car. Even on the track, unless you have or are willing to do a lot of testing to dial your brake system in (brake pads, proportioning valve, twin master cylinder setup, -to your particular tire size, suspension, tire model, etc...) It's probably a better idea to keep the ABS functional.


0.02 -Billy

 

[Pccw]

i have bbk in the front and coilover also ra1 tires, i am not doing much street driving...the abs delete is just becasue my old unit leaks...i wonder if i will gain any avantage going with no abs!
do u guys have it on the track car?
i thought abs was just for safety, but what about performance?
and i know its a huge weight saving!

 

[stuntman]

I would still say stick with ABS - invest in the NA2 system which is lighter, more modern, and better. Yes it does act as a safety net and the NA2 system is a much better safety net.

What front brake system do you have?

Ryneen is running a Brembo "Lotus" front caliper, stock rears, with NA1 ABS and that package works quite well.

We don't have ABS in the race car but have done a lot of caliper-pad-proportioning valve combinations and unless you're willing to do the necessary testing to find the proper balance, and have the driving ability to find that balance (both in terms of setup and prevent locking) without driving way under the limit, then go for it.

It's much easier on the driver and the learning curve to drive the car at 95% with ABS (using/tickling ABS) even though the balance might not be optimal.

We now have a caliper/piston combination engineered for the NSX's weight distribution, tire size, brake force, etc... (A $10,000 Performance Friction Brake system) used in the JGTC NSX. The bias and balance is perfect in the car.

It still comes down to time, ability, and money. Without knowing any more details, I would still generally recommend keeping ABS. For my personal street-track car, I'm eventually going to upgrade to the NA2 ABS system -if that means anything.


Billy

 

[nsxtasy]

I wouldn't recommend deleting the ABS, especially on a street-driven car.

On the track, if you're a good/experienced driver, you use "threshold braking" (braking on the threshold of locking up the wheels/tires, while not actually doing so), and the ABS never kicks in. If you're not as good/experienced, and you actually activate the ABS, the ABS helps you to learn where that threshold is.

On the street, you might never activate it, whether you drive your car in rain or not. But suppose you get caught in rain (it happens, even if you don't plan on it), and some idiot pulls out in front of you. The reaction of even experienced drivers will be to brake hard (probably harder than you should) while trying to steer around the idiot. ABS will help you do that without skidding/spinning, and you'll be glad you decided not to disable it. (That feeling is a whole lot better than being sorry you disabled it if you then hit something.)

 

[pgilliam1]

I would still say stick with ABS - invest in the NA2 system which is lighter, more modern, and better. Yes it does act as a safety net and the NA2 system is a much better safety net.
Billy

Do you have any idea how much a NA2 system costs and if there's an advantage to the NA2 OEM system over the replacement system from SOS (I've read forums here that owners really like the SOS system)? I have a 1991 and feel it's just a matter of time before mine goes south.
I would appreciate your feedback.

 

[stuntman]

Do you have any idea how much a NA2 system costs and if there's an advantage to the NA2 OEM system over the replacement system from SOS (I've read forums here that owners really like the SOS system)? I have a 1991 and feel it's just a matter of time before mine goes south.
I would appreciate your feedback.

SOS sells the NA2 adapter harness and pump that plugs into the NA1 car. You can see the pricing on their website, I think its a little over $1,700

 

[nimdivino]

The first time my ABS kicked-in (when some guy cut me off and hit the brakes), I thought I was going to crash. My 91 NSX is my first car with ABS and I thought there's something wrong with the whole car. I didn't like it, I felt that I didn't have good control. It activated way too early I think. I haven't bought the Dali ABS kit but I disable my ABS everytime I drive the car now.

niM

 

[nsxtasy]

I have a 1991 and feel it's just a matter of time before mine goes south.
I would appreciate your feedback.

There's no reason to think that the ABS is likely to have problems. The only common problem with it is that the solenoids can stick if they are not used in a long time. You can avoid this by every once in a while, taking the car out into an empty parking lot, getting the car up to a moderate speed, and slamming on the brakes REALLY REALLY HARD (much harder than you think is needed to activate it). You should feel the pedal vibrate.

The first time my ABS kicked-in (when some guy cut me off and hit the brakes), I thought I was going to crash. My 91 NSX is my first car with ABS and I thought there's something wrong with the whole car. I didn't like it, I felt that I didn't have good control. It activated way too early I think.

Sounds like driver error. When ABS first came out, a lot of drivers (even professionals like in law enforcement) had problems because they didn't know how to use it, and were backing off the brake pedal when they felt it vibrate. It's a good idea to get accustomed to the feel of the ABS (such as by exercising the solenoids as described above). That way, you can train yourself to stay on the pedal when you feel it vibrating, and take full advantage of the ABS. It's a much better solution than de-activating it because you don't know how to drive with it, thereby losing its advantage of enabling you to steer the car while performing maximum braking.

 

[pgilliam1]

There's no reason to think that the ABS is likely to have problems. The only common problem with it is that the solenoids can stick if they are not used in a long time. You can avoid this by every once in a while, taking the car out into an empty parking lot, getting the car up to a moderate speed, and slamming on the brakes REALLY REALLY HARD (much harder than you think is needed to activate it). You should feel the pedal vibrate.

I'm glad to hear you have confidence in the NA1 system. I have bled the system and excercise it often. It works as you describe and as I think it should (the pump did cut on once while driving and not braking but that was after not driving the car for 2 months - I hate winter). I hope you're right and it lasts for a while longer :smile:.
Thanks for the input and Happy Motoring!

 

[tbromley]

Hey Guys,

Recently, in the past month or so, I had an issue with mine. I thought that I might need to replace it. I thought of the SOS upgrade which is great if you need it - you most likely don't. Most likely you need to have someone look at it that is very familiar with the NA1 system - like my friend Eiffel here in Atlanta or someone like Barney if your in or around the Nashville area of Larry B if your upstate east coast and there are undoubtedly others. The dealer here told me I needed to replace my system - oh, and for only 5000 clams - right. That's the kind of advice you get from a dealer that doesn't have a mechanic or maintenance head that knows what the deal is with the NA1 system.

So the upshot of this is I took it to Eiffel - a very good independant here in Atlanta that has an NSX - and he has a gizmo that hooks up to the brake system and exercises each wheel and that solved it. The system will run when the ABS is activated - the pump will run and sometimes it froths up the resevoir and it overflows a bit - that's normal for this older system. Just keep tabs on the fill level and keep it right. Exercise the system as others have mentioned. It's actually easy to get the ABS to activate by braking over bumps - that usually does it or over pine straw in a big parking lot where you have some room to brake. Try that and find a good independant that knows the NSX and you'll most likely be just fine. I was. I have a 91 as most know.

Hope this helps,

 

[shawn110975]

Did any of you guys see whats holding up the hood of that car on the Dali site, for the ABS KILLER KIT!!! LOL its a broom. a broom! I think I will stick with buying from SOS to be safe!

 

[davidf]

SOS sells the NA2 adapter harness and pump that plugs into the NA1 car. You can see the pricing on their website, I think its a little over $1,700

Look at this as an "investment".

 

[stuntman]

There's no reason to think that the ABS is likely to have problems. The only common problem with it is that the solenoids can stick if they are not used in a long time. You can avoid this by every once in a while, taking the car out into an empty parking lot, getting the car up to a moderate speed, and slamming on the brakes REALLY REALLY HARD (much harder than you think is needed to activate it). You should feel the pedal vibrate.

Sounds like driver error. When ABS first came out, a lot of drivers (even professionals like in law enforcement) had problems because they didn't know how to use it, and were backing off the brake pedal when they felt it vibrate. It's a good idea to get accustomed to the feel of the ABS (such as by exercising the solenoids as described above). That way, you can train yourself to stay on the pedal when you feel it vibrating, and take full advantage of the ABS. It's a much better solution than de-activating it because you don't know how to drive with it, thereby losing its advantage of enabling you to steer the car while performing maximum braking.

+1

You really do need to *use* the ABS system every so often to make sure its functioning and 'work it out' -if you will. Just like (IMO) you should rev your car out to redline every so often. I'm one for believing its not really that good to always run a motor below 4,000rpm for its entire life. Plus like the ABS solenoid, you need to 'work out' the V-tec solenoid as well -by going above 6,000rpm.

 

[JWillis]

I went through the same situation and almost deleted my ABS. I thought that having a BBK kit would be good enough to where I wouldn't need ABS. It did the exact opposite and would very easily lock up all wheels even on light spirited driving.

The previous owner removed the ABS relay because the pump would run continuously and would boil over. So after several search threads on exercising the ABS system I went ahead and did so, went out and tested the car on the streets by doing some hard braking, and still the car skidded 20 feet until it stopped, and I wanted to fix this issue because there was an open track day coming up. I tested the power to the pump, but it didn't engage and I thought that it was shot altogether, and I thought I had covered everything with the ABS.

During the track day I took it easy and just wanted to get a feel for the car. Coming into turn one very lightly, the brakes locked and that did it for me. It was a cold day that day (30 degrees for a high), and I was on 18/19" setup. So I pulled in the pit area and popped the hood to see if the fluid was even getting hot, or even if there was any signs of life coming out of the ABS. Then I opened up the fuse box just to make sure I pushed the relay all the way in, and noticed one of the 20 amp fuses was blown. After replacing it I started the car and the ABS made the clicking noise so that was at least good. Took it back out on the track and it was a night and day difference. The tires never locked, and it felt I could optimize the full benefits of BBKs. With new fluid I believe I had exercised the ABS enough that day, and I have more confidence in the car to push it further.

Cliff Notes: Keep the ABS.

 

[stuntman]

I went through the same situation and almost deleted my ABS. I thought that having a BBK kit would be good enough to where I wouldn't need ABS. It did the exact opposite and would very easily lock up all wheels even on light spirited driving.

The previous owner removed the ABS relay because the pump would run continuously and would boil over. So after several search threads on exercising the ABS system I went ahead and did so, went out and tested the car on the streets by doing some hard braking, and still the car skidded 20 feet until it stopped, and I wanted to fix this issue because there was an open track day coming up. I tested the power to the pump, but it didn't engage and I thought that it was shot altogether, and I thought I had covered everything with the ABS.

During the track day I took it easy and just wanted to get a feel for the car. Coming into turn one very lightly, the brakes locked and that did it for me. It was a cold day that day (30 degrees for a high), and I was on 18/19" setup. So I pulled in the pit area and popped the hood to see if the fluid was even getting hot, or even if there was any signs of life coming out of the ABS. Then I opened up the fuse box just to make sure I pushed the relay all the way in, and noticed one of the 20 amp fuses was blown. After replacing it I started the car and the ABS made the clicking noise so that was at least good. Took it back out on the track and it was a night and day difference. The tires never locked, and it felt I could optimize the full benefits of BBKs. With new fluid I believe I had exercised the ABS enough that day, and I have more confidence in the car to push it further.

Cliff Notes: Keep the ABS.

^Thats a common problem for most "BBK"s -the brake bias becomes way off without a proportioning valve and or testing with different brake pads to try to optimize the bias of all 4 wheels so the fronts aren't overpowering the rears or vice-versa.