91 keyless entry - the truth.....

Notice next to both mine and Drew's learn switch, a pair of pins labeled CN2. The instructions as I recall from last night said put the switch into learn and jump the connection. I think that is the connection!

By the way, I think the attached photo is the problem with my module. I notice similar cap barf on Drew's JDM module, but not on the new box.image[11].jpg
 
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Well, now that you showed me yours, I'll show you mine...

Assuming a 16-bit code with a max decimal value of 65535. This does fit in line with the white sticker on my transmitter.
60430 = 1110110000001110, there are 8x 0's
02721 = 0000101010100001, there are 11x 0's

This corresponds to [MENTION=26435]Old Guy[/MENTION] conjecture. My guess is that the remotes were internally paper tagged, pre-drilled at the factory and "learned" to the receiver. This makes sense as the stickers on the remote are perfectly positioned, while the sticker on the receiver is always off a bit like it was manually applied.

edit: I was counting 1's and not 0's, but zeros are better.
 
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I count 11 holes on mine.

Does your 16 bit number come from the pinched holes on your board? Or from the number on your remote?

Here is my receiver module.
01100151. P/N is 08E61-SLO-2000-02. Can’t seem to paste onto my browser from my phone.
 
The six-digit white sticker on the transmitter (remote/fob) IS the decimal value of the 16-bit number-coded via drilling traces.

decimal 02721 = x0000101010100001, which is exactly what is drilled out on your remote
decimal 60430 = x1110110000001110 and that is what is drilled out my annotated remote

An uncut trace is = 1, and a cut trace is = 0.

You can match your devices by just drilling all the traces in common with the transmitters that you have. At some point you would get down to drilling them all out, but that would work.

I have annotated my remote with the binary positions as marked on the flexible PCB/FPC.


Keyless_USDM_Transmitter_Anotated.jpg
 
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Miner said:
I count 11 holes on mine.

Does your 16 bit number come from the pinched holes on your board? Or from the number on your remote?

Here is my receiver module.
01100151. P/N is 08E61-SLO-2000-02. Can’t seem to paste onto my browser from my phone.
Click to expand...

The number position assignment to each punched or not punched hole is provided by a tiny, tiny, tiny number printed on the amber colored circuit board - Drew has shown the number assignment in his photo.

As an example, if somebody had holes punched in positions 16 and 14 and no other positions the binary code would be 0101 1111 1111 1111 (ignore the spaces). The decimal code on the sticker for this binary code would be [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]24575. [/FONT] The decimal code for your remote is 2721 which in binary is 0000 [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]1010 1010 0001 which has 11 zeros (holes) as you note. The value for the decimal code can be between 0 and 65536 (2^16). [/FONT]
 
After Drew’s pictorial of which holes were which, it made more sense. As to the number equivalent, even more so when Drew pointed out the 5 digit number on the inside. For some reason, I over complicate binary numbers and was thinking the outside number is some Digital equivalent rather than a semi random number that may or may not correlate to punches of 16 bits.
 
Now to get to replacing the 2 bad caps. Of course, I didn’t get good photos of them, and put everything back together.
I had reached out to an online salvage yard database and I got several responses asking for vin if my 93 Legend, and maybe even the p/n of the module. Depending on the cost, I may even go down that route and program the new box with my key fob.
 
I_M_Legend said:
After locking the vehicle with the remote and waiting 15 seconds for the alarm to fully arm (assuming all doors, trunk, hood, are properly closed), pressing and holding the EXT PANIC button for ~ 3 seconds will trigger the alarm. Lights will flash and horn will honk. At least that's how it worked on my 99. 91/92 might be different.
Click to expand...


Thanks i have test it and it Work´s
 
[MENTION=11324]Miner[/MENTION] were any of the caps out of spec? It seems like the goop is soft glue to prevent vibration damage.

If you can: rigidly document the learning process. I am awaiting some used remotes and receivers to do some testing and your efforts would be very helpful.

FWIW:I had my keyless in storage for 8+ years and it fired right back up when installed.
 
drew said:
[MENTION=11324]Miner[/MENTION] were any of the caps out of spec? It seems like the goop is soft glue to prevent vibration damage.

If you can: rigidly document the learning process. I am awaiting some used remotes and receivers to do some testing and your efforts would be very helpful.

FWIW:I had my keyless in storage for 8+ years and it fired right back up when installed.
Click to expand...

I haven’t checked the caps yet. I couldn’t convince myself the goop was cap blood, but it was only on those 2 caps and sorta seemed like it oozed out.

I will check at the next opportunity. The death of my keyless was initially working only a foot or 2 from the car, then it stopped at all. I did change batteries in the key fob, no change so I presume the control unit.

Very unlikely it would lose programming, but at this point it is the easy next step. Salvage yard control units are around $150, and have seen dealer from like $275. Both way more than what they are worth , especially if I can get an aftermarket unit for $25 and make a harness for $25 so it is plug and play.
 
TRUE: orphan remote transmitters can be coded to an unrelated receiver. assuming: same frequency of 318MHZ.

ONE is the number of unique 16-bit transmitter values that can be held by the receiver. Therefore, all the transmitters must match, there can be as many remotes as you like...as long as they all match.

1.5mm is the hole size for punching out the flexible circuit board (FCD). Use a razor blade to separate the foam backing securing the FCD to the remote. There is an SMT component exterior package that tends to separate when pulling off the FFC, it is a black component just below the center valley of the FCD.

While a 1.5mm hole punch is preferred. I used a drill press with a 1.5mm drill (~1/16") over a soft block of wood to make holes in the FCD. Drilling out the traces requires precision and you need to ensure the trace is completely removed.

Missing remote screws can be salvaged from the small internal 2.5" mechanical hard drives that are used in laptops. Generally a Torx screw, but sometimes a Phillips. So before you trash your laptop HDD, rob some of the screws. It is a M2 machine screw, seems laptops are assembled with lots of M2 screws that will work.

I have a list of serials and 16-bit values:
10700533, 29265
01100227, 62468 *s/n hard to read
11100557, 10992
11105875, 57891
40901122, 40564
50101926, 49573

Maybe somebody can determine what kind of hashing is going on? I will add in a few more data points as I go through my stash of keyless units.

The factory process to program/train remote transmitters to the receiver is likely: a) pair of matched remotes are created by punching out the traces on the FCD, 2) the receiver is programmed with these remotes and 3) a serial sticker is manually slapped on the receiver. This is why the receiver serial sticker is always applied crooked and the remotes are properly aligned. The bitwise math to perform is called "bit masking using AND".

If one transmitter works, but not the other: double-check your punched/drilled holes, even a small amount of trace left will make a connection. Try Learning the other remote, if THAT remote works, but now not the other: you have a mismatch on the remotes; compare carefully between the remotes.

I have no idea what the jumper does, seems to matter not to operation.


Programing process, verified!
1. Plug in the receiver with Learn On. (passenger door open/closed matters not, no jumper installed)
2. Vehicle Key On (ACC only should work. You may turn Learn On here too.)
4. Key Off, Remove Key (not sure key removed germane)
5. Activate the transmitter a single time (more doesn't matter, so party away if you like)
6. Learn switch Off
7. Test. Note: system will not lock if key is in the ignition, but it should unlock
8. If not working, Unplug Receiver, go to Step 1
 
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Some Knowledgebase:

Keyless units were all dealer installed options. By 2002, they were installed by Dealer as standard equipment.

Each country has their own communication frequency governing body and rules. Hence Honda leaving it to the local dealers to install the keyless that is compliant with the local law.

This also means that keyless from any country can be adapted to any NSX.



JDM: Tokai Rika, http://www.tokai-rika.co.jp/en/, unknown how to get additional transmitters or how to program.

UK: Hamilton & Palmer, remotes are still available.

USA: Kenwood North America, remotes are still available, but your local dealer has to make contact with Kenwood and order up remotes based on the receiver serial number.
 
Anyone know a dealer that will still order these?

Most dealers increasingly do not want to deal with these anymore, because due to the manual hole punch nature of the programming, it's pretty error prone, and is irreversible when mistakes are made, and must be replaced when errors happen.

drew said:
Some Knowledgebase:

Keyless units were all dealer installed options. By 2002, they were installed by Dealer as standard equipment.

Each country has their own communication frequency governing body and rules. Hence Honda leaving it to the local dealers to install the keyless that is compliant with the local law.

This also means that keyless from any country can be adapted to any NSX.



JDM: Tokai Rika, http://www.tokai-rika.co.jp/en/, unknown how to get additional transmitters or how to program.

UK: Hamilton & Palmer, remotes are still available.

USA: Kenwood North America, remotes are still available, but your local dealer has to make contact with Kenwood and order up remotes based on the receiver serial number.
Click to expand...
 
Ben said:
Anyone know a dealer that will still order these?
Click to expand...

@Chase_acura is my source for these remotes.

It is easy enough to use a drill press with a 1/16"/1.5mm drill bit to make the holes. you can just have the dealer get you some remotes and you deal with the coding.

Alternatively, if you only have new remote transmitters...you just make the receiver learn a virgin 0x1111111111111111 ($65535) code. The downside is that somebody else with a virgin transmitter can open your car. An unlikely occurrence, but possible.

(FYI: I just purchased a NOS BNIB OEM USDM keyless unit a few months back...I suspect the last one on the planet. Some dealership cleaning out during COVID.
I also have an aftermarket Plug and Play unit with light flash and trunk release...currently undergoing user installation/testing.)
 
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Great! Will Chase order you unprogrammed/unpunched remotes? I'd rather punch them myself, because the last remote I got, it was punched incorrectly, you can't un-punch them easily, and the dealer I got it from doesn't want to deal with them anymore. My go-to parts guy has also not wanted to deal with them for years now.

My incorrectly punched remote, it has 4 holes that need to be bridged, so I'll be giving that a try soon. Deciding whether I should attempt FCB trace repair, or just use a jump/rework wire.

I wonder how many remotes are left in stock, and if it's not many, maybe we should contact Kenwood to buy out their stock, as more Acura dealers increasingly do not want to deal with them. I'm sure Kenwood would love to have them all sold as well.

drew said:
Chase_Acura is my source for these remotes.

It is easy enough to use a drill press with a 1/16"/1.5mm drill bit to make the holes. you can just have the dealer get you some remotes and you deal with the coding.

Alternatively, if you only have new remote transmitters...you just make the receiver learn a virgin 00000 code. The downside is that somebody else with a virgin transmitter can open your car. An unlikely occurrence, but possible.

(FYI: I just purchased a NOS BNIB OEM USDM keyless unit a few months back...I suspect the last one on the planet. Some dealership cleaning out during COVID.
I also have an aftermarket Plug and Play unit with light flash and trunk release...currently undergoing user installation/testing.)
Click to expand...
 
That's one way to do it, I guess. I have a complete working system factory programmed with 2 remotes, trying to add a 3rd for the spare key. Would rather not mess with what's already working. :ROFLMAO:



drew said:
Keep drilling holes until all the remotes match.
Click to expand...
 
It is also possible to 'reprogram' a used remote by bridging the punched holes with a wire jumper so that the pattern matches up with the door lock control unit. There is thread, or a post in a thread describing this; but, it is probably 5+ years old and not so easy to find. I can't remember what they used for the wire jumper; but, I think wire-wrap wire would be the ideal candidate. Its typically #30 AWG with kynar insulation which makes for a very fine wire that is very flexible and easy to pack back into the case. It is my go-to if I need to do a repair on a circuit board trace. Adafruit will sell you a life-time supply for about $10 - or just search for 'kynar wire' on Google. Stripping the insulation off of the wire so that you can solder it is probably the hard part. You will need high quality strippers that can do #30 AWG. Hako makes some that you can find for a reasonable price.
 
For the jump wires, I was looking at this. Commonly used for mobile phone repairs.


Apparently, you don't need to strip, the insulation will melt off at the point of solder.

Old Guy said:
It is also possible to 'reprogram' a used remote by bridging the punched holes with a wire jumper so that the pattern matches up with the door lock control unit. There is thread, or a post in a thread describing this; but, it is probably 5+ years old and not so easy to find. I can't remember what they used for the wire jumper; but, I think wire-wrap wire would be the ideal candidate. Its typically #30 AWG with kynar insulation which makes for a very fine wire that is very flexible and easy to pack back into the case. It is my go-to if I need to do a repair on a circuit board trace. Adafruit will sell you a life-time supply for about $10 - or just search for 'kynar wire' on Google. Stripping the insulation off of the wire so that you can solder it is probably the hard part. You will need high quality strippers that can do #30 AWG. Hako makes some that you can find for a reasonable price.
Click to expand...
 
Before you get the iron out, I would try a "conductive ink pen" or a "silver ink pen".

It really isn't difficult to get the Kenwood receiver to learn a new transmitter code. I've done it dozens of times. Instructions above.

If none of this works for you, I'll buy your remote transmitters.
 
The more I look at the transmitter FFC, with the 8 through holes (THT) and the double-sided FFC...the punch holes is just a convenience for the coding. With some basic solder jumping between the pins: the remote can coded however you like.

(Maybe over the holidays or when I get rained in: I'll doc up the matrix. Currently, working on RadioEdit, a new radio PCB drop in project,)
 
drew said:
(Maybe over the holidays or when I get rained in: I'll doc up the matrix. Currently, working on RadioEdit, a new radio PCB drop in project,)
Click to expand...

I was wondering whether you were still working on that rather ambitious project or decided to call it quits.
 

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