91 keyless entry - the truth.....
- Thread starter ffffanman
- Start date
Mike-eg6
Send pics of your keyless rig including the harness.
Also, the OEM keyless units also suffer from capacitors taking a leak all over the PCB. It might be you have a gooey mess inside the unit.
The Panic activates the SCU horns.
Send pics of your keyless rig including the harness.
Also, the OEM keyless units also suffer from capacitors taking a leak all over the PCB. It might be you have a gooey mess inside the unit.
The Panic activates the SCU horns.
okay thanks for your help .
i got this plan to install the kit. but the yellow kable i donn´t have. i have 1 Blue and 1 Red/grey .
and i take the blue as the yellow and the red/grey as the red.
The wire colors are not that important, just where they go. The correct holes appear to be populated.
This harness appears to use non-standard wire colors, which is just fine as long as the wires go where they are required. I cannot determine if the power supply (wht/grn on yours) has an inline 3A fuse?
I have the pinout link if you wish to verify.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...yless-Solved?p=2008386&viewfull=1#post2008386
If all the wires line up, then your receiver is having issues. I would open it up and inspect the circuit board.
You can also manually test your vehicle body side connector by grounding...with a 3A inline fuse or test light... the appropriate terminals.
This harness appears to use non-standard wire colors, which is just fine as long as the wires go where they are required. I cannot determine if the power supply (wht/grn on yours) has an inline 3A fuse?
I have the pinout link if you wish to verify.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...yless-Solved?p=2008386&viewfull=1#post2008386
If all the wires line up, then your receiver is having issues. I would open it up and inspect the circuit board.
You can also manually test your vehicle body side connector by grounding...with a 3A inline fuse or test light... the appropriate terminals.
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So I'll throw this out there.
My keyless entry stopped working a long time ago. It has never been much of a deal to me, because I don't drive the car that much, combined with the "91-92" specific talk, that it was no longer available etc.
I have started thinking about fixing some of the nagging things like trunk struts, and started reading this (and other) thread about the keyless entry.
Unless I'm mistaken from reading the sometimes confusing and intermingled posts, and please correct me if i am, if I already have the harness installed, I can put a 93 and up keyless entry, as well as early 90's Legends?
From what I gathered, the 91-92 had an 8 pin connector (to the car harness) with 2 additional wires that got added to the security control unit, where the 93 and up cars had a single 12 (or 14 pin) connector that went directly to the car harness (and probably indirectly to the security control unit).
My keyless entry stopped working a long time ago. It has never been much of a deal to me, because I don't drive the car that much, combined with the "91-92" specific talk, that it was no longer available etc.
I have started thinking about fixing some of the nagging things like trunk struts, and started reading this (and other) thread about the keyless entry.
Unless I'm mistaken from reading the sometimes confusing and intermingled posts, and please correct me if i am, if I already have the harness installed, I can put a 93 and up keyless entry, as well as early 90's Legends?
From what I gathered, the 91-92 had an 8 pin connector (to the car harness) with 2 additional wires that got added to the security control unit, where the 93 and up cars had a single 12 (or 14 pin) connector that went directly to the car harness (and probably indirectly to the security control unit).
>I can put a 93 and up keyless entry, as well as early 90's Legends?
Or Accords and a few others.
The problem is the remotes. Talk to [MENTION=15821]Chase[/MENTION] Acura for specifics, he can acquire and match them to receivers as required.
Coding an existing Kenwood remote to a different receiver has not been well documented.
Newer Honda kits can be used too (but not the 5-pin one as they just communicate with the BCM).
**
[MENTION=34822]I_M_Legend[/MENTION] has documented a DIY for inexpensive keyless units and greater functionality (trunk release and flashing lights if you like).
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...ss-Entry-System-with-Factory-Alarm-activation
> 91-92 had an 8 pin connector (to the car harness) with 2 additional wires that got added to the security control unit,
This is true.
>the 93 and up cars had a single 12 (or 14 pin) connector that went directly to the car harness
Also true.
More here:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...yless-Solved?p=2008386&viewfull=1#post2008386
Come on down and help out with the Knowledgebase.
Or Accords and a few others.
The problem is the remotes. Talk to [MENTION=15821]Chase[/MENTION] Acura for specifics, he can acquire and match them to receivers as required.
Coding an existing Kenwood remote to a different receiver has not been well documented.
Newer Honda kits can be used too (but not the 5-pin one as they just communicate with the BCM).
**
[MENTION=34822]I_M_Legend[/MENTION] has documented a DIY for inexpensive keyless units and greater functionality (trunk release and flashing lights if you like).
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...ss-Entry-System-with-Factory-Alarm-activation
> 91-92 had an 8 pin connector (to the car harness) with 2 additional wires that got added to the security control unit,
This is true.
>the 93 and up cars had a single 12 (or 14 pin) connector that went directly to the car harness
Also true.
More here:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...yless-Solved?p=2008386&viewfull=1#post2008386
Come on down and help out with the Knowledgebase.
I wish I had started looking into this a couple of years ago. I had an 02 TL, that when I sold 2-1/2 years ago would have been a perfect donor for both the fobs and the controller. Or at least would have been a test bed for it. I am checking online salvage yards for a complete setup from a later model Acura, at least to see what type of connector it has. My neighbor has an 05 TL-s that he could be selling soon. I may ask to drop the knee bolster and see what kind it has, and if a 14pin green connector, ask to borrow it to test. More data for the group.
Searching one of the dealer sites, they sell the control unit for an 05 NSX for just under $400, and aftermarket key fobs would add another $20 each. Of course that is much more than an aftermarket setup. I do like the idea of nsxmugen's sub $100 PKE from Amazon. The push to start is ok, maybe worth the hassle on a key on, then push to engage the starter, maybe not. But the keyless entry part would be nice.
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Been looking on eBay at salvage yard units. Modules for (other than NSX) in the early 2000s appears to have less than 14 pin connectors. By that point Honda probably adopted a more simple approach, much like the aftermarket systems, power, return, lock and unlock. Stopped worrying about the hood or trunk being open, etc.
>the early 2000s appears to have less than 14 pin connectors.
FYI: The OEM keyless only requires NINE connections.
The original JDM version has 30 terminals, it does a few extra things like selecting for passive arming, silent mode, etc...
FYI: The OEM keyless only requires NINE connections.
The original JDM version has 30 terminals, it does a few extra things like selecting for passive arming, silent mode, etc...
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Thanks [MENTION=5430]drew[/MENTION]
okay i think it was my mistake Now that I have driven a lap, it no longer locks itself automatically.
I think the problem was that after the installation I only switched on the ignition and therefore locked himself after a few hours
Now it work´s perfekt.
if I unlock the NSX but don't open a door, it locks after 15 sec.
If the key is in the lock it won't lock itselfbut how does the EXT PANIC button work? what should happen if i press it?
nice greets Mike
okay i think it was my mistake Now that I have driven a lap, it no longer locks itself automatically.
I think the problem was that after the installation I only switched on the ignition and therefore locked himself after a few hours
Now it work´s perfekt.
if I unlock the NSX but don't open a door, it locks after 15 sec.
If the key is in the lock it won't lock itselfbut how does the EXT PANIC button work? what should happen if i press it?
nice greets Mike
After locking the vehicle with the remote and waiting 15 seconds for the alarm to fully arm (assuming all doors, trunk, hood, are properly closed), pressing and holding the EXT PANIC button for ~ 3 seconds will trigger the alarm. Lights will flash and horn will honk. At least that's how it worked on my 99. 91/92 might be different.
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I have two original alarm remotes. I'm not sure if they can be programmed to the original module. If someone wants to buy one I'll accept $100 per remote.
Yes, orphan remotes CAN be coded to a different receiver. (Update: I've documented the process, in another post).
If you can locate a 14P receiver, there are generally a few on eBay, [MENTION=15821]Chase[/MENTION] Acura can get you new remotes coded to that receiver at ~$130 each.
Base part number prefix is 08E60 and 08E61 for the original 318mhz style receiver and transmitter. You do need the external eight-digit serial number on the receiver, though at least some units have a "Learn" feature. These units tend to be found on Legends, Vigors, and some Accords.
Honda and JDM used 08E50, 08E51, 08E52 likely with 433.4mhz remote. The keyless unit needs to have at least a 14 pin connector and some JDM units can have 30 pins (they appear otherwise identical to the 08E60/08E61 unit). Less than 14 pins or no serial number is a no go.
For those concours folks: the original keyless box is metal and generally has a SL0 or SP1 infix number, though Legend units were also fitted. Though other infix numbers should work as well as those with a plastic container. The Accord unit is 08e52-sm5-1000-01.
Do note that the receivers have the same capacitor leakage issues as other electronics in the NSX.
You can DIY a harness with the instructions provided in this thread:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/140311-91-92-Keyless-Solved
Some known fully qualified part numbers for an early NSX designated receivers, made by Kenwood:
Acura: 08E61-SL0-2000-02, 08E61-SP1-2000-02, 08E60-SL0-201F
Honda: 08E52-SL0-0000-01 (-01 is the receiver in this case),
I purchased a new keyless kit for my USDM 1991 from an Acura dealer in the early 2000's with 3x remotes, 08E61-SP1-2000-02. FYI, the transmitter part number is: 08E61-SP1-2000-01. The receiver and transmitters all had matching serial numbers. It was an NSX kit as the remote cases have "NSX" debossed on them, instead of the generic "Acura" deboss.
It should be noted that a functionally equivalent receiver could have different part numbers
08E60-SL0-0010-02 (JDM, made by Tokai Rika, unsure about remote availability)
If you can locate a 14P receiver, there are generally a few on eBay, [MENTION=15821]Chase[/MENTION] Acura can get you new remotes coded to that receiver at ~$130 each.
Base part number prefix is 08E60 and 08E61 for the original 318mhz style receiver and transmitter. You do need the external eight-digit serial number on the receiver, though at least some units have a "Learn" feature. These units tend to be found on Legends, Vigors, and some Accords.
Honda and JDM used 08E50, 08E51, 08E52 likely with 433.4mhz remote. The keyless unit needs to have at least a 14 pin connector and some JDM units can have 30 pins (they appear otherwise identical to the 08E60/08E61 unit). Less than 14 pins or no serial number is a no go.
For those concours folks: the original keyless box is metal and generally has a SL0 or SP1 infix number, though Legend units were also fitted. Though other infix numbers should work as well as those with a plastic container. The Accord unit is 08e52-sm5-1000-01.
Do note that the receivers have the same capacitor leakage issues as other electronics in the NSX.
You can DIY a harness with the instructions provided in this thread:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/140311-91-92-Keyless-Solved
Some known fully qualified part numbers for an early NSX designated receivers, made by Kenwood:
Acura: 08E61-SL0-2000-02, 08E61-SP1-2000-02, 08E60-SL0-201F
Honda: 08E52-SL0-0000-01 (-01 is the receiver in this case),
I purchased a new keyless kit for my USDM 1991 from an Acura dealer in the early 2000's with 3x remotes, 08E61-SP1-2000-02. FYI, the transmitter part number is: 08E61-SP1-2000-01. The receiver and transmitters all had matching serial numbers. It was an NSX kit as the remote cases have "NSX" debossed on them, instead of the generic "Acura" deboss.
It should be noted that a functionally equivalent receiver could have different part numbers
08E60-SL0-0010-02 (JDM, made by Tokai Rika, unsure about remote availability)
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Yes they can and 'coding' is not exactly the correct euphemism. It is definitely not accomplished in firmware / software, more of a hardware modification. Think back to the old garage remotes which had an 8 or 12 position dipswitch. You would enter in a sequence of on off off … into your remote and put the matching sequence into your garage door opener. The OEM remotes are coded the same way except there is no convenient dip switch. There is a flexible tape connector with provision to punch holes in the wires in the tape to get the equivalent of the on off off sequence. It was never designed to be re codable. However, with careful soldering iron work you can patch holes and create new holes to enter a new code.
The rub is that if you are trying to match up some salvaged remote with your keyless unit, I think you need one of the original remotes so you can replicate the open and closed conditions on that flexible tape. I have never opened up my keyless unit to see how it is coded (and have no intention to since it is working just fine). Depending on how the keyless unit is coded (perhaps jumpers soldered into the circuit board, perhaps a dip switch - that would be too sensible) you may be able to interpret the code to enter into your new remotes. However, if that is the case it might be easier to re code the keyless unit to the remotes rather than recode the remotes. The business of trying to patch holes in the flexible tape to match up codes strikes me as potentially non durable.
There is a thread on Prime describing the recoding of the remotes in much more detail. It is probably 5+ years old and unfortunately I was not able to come up with the magic combination or search terms to get a hit on it.
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Alright, now that [MENTION=26435]Old Guy[/MENTION] is on the case... I too also go back to the old days when there were dip switches on the receiver and one would cut traces on the transmitter to sync up. They were just as easy to skim and clone too.
I have a "later" (circa 1993) USDM Keyless Entry System (KES) and 3x remotes were ordered at the time of purchase around ~2003, all of these parts have the same matching printed serial numbers on their labels.
Here are some pictures of a USDM KES
Note the "LEARN" switch on it
IC1 is a NEC 75402A513
IC4 is a S2940, flash memory?
My DIY harness made from salvaged connectors, because I eat my own dog food and had to interface with my JDM vehicle.
Here is a 30P JDM KES PCB that is packaged in the metal box as my USDM.
And a JDM KES console
EDIT: The JDM keyless parts appear to be for the door mounted IR receiver. Very early system and not very good. The JDM unit has no ability to store any data so it cannot be programmed, this must have been done in the IR receiver.
I have a "later" (circa 1993) USDM Keyless Entry System (KES) and 3x remotes were ordered at the time of purchase around ~2003, all of these parts have the same matching printed serial numbers on their labels.
Here are some pictures of a USDM KES
Note the "LEARN" switch on it
IC1 is a NEC 75402A513
IC4 is a S2940, flash memory?
My DIY harness made from salvaged connectors, because I eat my own dog food and had to interface with my JDM vehicle.
Here is a 30P JDM KES PCB that is packaged in the metal box as my USDM.
And a JDM KES console
EDIT: The JDM keyless parts appear to be for the door mounted IR receiver. Very early system and not very good. The JDM unit has no ability to store any data so it cannot be programmed, this must have been done in the IR receiver.
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I believe the this is the thread about programming the key fobs. It would appear that may be for the model that Drew has; the newer receiver unit.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...keyless-entry-system-remote?highlight=Key fob
In the thread (or one of the active links) there is a description of matching the traces on the key fob.
I have my factory keyless entry module and key fob. It stopped working a long time ago. I haven’t opened the module to look for bad caps, the key fob led flashes so I presume it still works.
Now that my daughters are 4 and 8, and we never leave the house on weekends I’m starting to get into fixing things. I’ll invest 730 work hours to avoid spending $50 for an aftermarket keyless entry system.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...keyless-entry-system-remote?highlight=Key fob
In the thread (or one of the active links) there is a description of matching the traces on the key fob.
I have my factory keyless entry module and key fob. It stopped working a long time ago. I haven’t opened the module to look for bad caps, the key fob led flashes so I presume it still works.
Now that my daughters are 4 and 8, and we never leave the house on weekends I’m starting to get into fixing things. I’ll invest 730 work hours to avoid spending $50 for an aftermarket keyless entry system.
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> I haven’t opened the module to look for bad caps, the key fob led flashes so I presume it still works.
Post some pics of the PCB and label (sans serial), please.
Like I said: this isn't well documented.
It would be nice to know if all or some receivers have a "learn" switch. If there are actually different versions.
If somebody would like to donate some remotes to the knowledgebase cause, I'll gladly accept them, do some tests and post the results.
**
The FCC ID can be run through their database to determine the date Form 731 was filed
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm
Grantee Code is the first three characters of the FCC ID, in this case: GJ8
Product Code is is the part number prefix and seems to followed by the suffix: 08E61-02
The 08E61 receiver was approved 07/20/1993 for 318MHZ. What is interesting to note is the guy that filed the application still works for AHM.
The 08E60 was approved 06/27/1990 and submitted by AHM for 318mhz
It should be noted that about half the production of the NSX was in the first couple of years. And a lot of Legends were made before 1993, so it may be that a lot of receivers might be considered "early".
recap: the NSX/Legend rectangle remotes are 318MHZ and need FCC ID: GJ808E61 or GJ808E60 receiver units to communicate.
The 08E51 (FCC ID: A26 9ZUA104, 9ZU104) was approved 1993-1995, by Alpine via Hyak Laboratories, but the frequency is 433.4mhz. There is even an email contact for Alpine Japan if anybody wants to follow up...
Also for fun, run GJ8 and determine that 3 of the 5 entries are for the NSX/Legend.
Post some pics of the PCB and label (sans serial), please.
Like I said: this isn't well documented.
It would be nice to know if all or some receivers have a "learn" switch. If there are actually different versions.
If somebody would like to donate some remotes to the knowledgebase cause, I'll gladly accept them, do some tests and post the results.
**
The FCC ID can be run through their database to determine the date Form 731 was filed
https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm
Grantee Code is the first three characters of the FCC ID, in this case: GJ8
Product Code is is the part number prefix and seems to followed by the suffix: 08E61-02
The 08E61 receiver was approved 07/20/1993 for 318MHZ. What is interesting to note is the guy that filed the application still works for AHM.
The 08E60 was approved 06/27/1990 and submitted by AHM for 318mhz
It should be noted that about half the production of the NSX was in the first couple of years. And a lot of Legends were made before 1993, so it may be that a lot of receivers might be considered "early".
recap: the NSX/Legend rectangle remotes are 318MHZ and need FCC ID: GJ808E61 or GJ808E60 receiver units to communicate.
The 08E51 (FCC ID: A26 9ZUA104, 9ZU104) was approved 1993-1995, by Alpine via Hyak Laboratories, but the frequency is 433.4mhz. There is even an email contact for Alpine Japan if anybody wants to follow up...
Also for fun, run GJ8 and determine that 3 of the 5 entries are for the NSX/Legend.
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That is not the thread that I was thinking about. The link I was thinking about had pictures of the modifications to the remote to 'recode' a remote to match an existing remote. The following post discusses the recode by modifying the traces on the thin flexible board soldered to the main board (my previous reference to tape was poor terminology) of a remote to match an existing remote (and presumably your master).
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/38218-Program-factory-alarm?p=604540&viewfull=1#post604540
[/FONT]This post mentions the learn switch inside the pre 2003 keyless units, presumably the switch that shows up in Drew's photo.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/31858-ordering-a-replacement-keyfob-where-is-Control-Box-Brain?p=280885&viewfull=1#post280885[/FONT]
The ability to receive and store a code is a step up on the dip switch option if it gives you the ability to learn more than one code. However, received wisdom is that the controller can only accept one code so if you are down to one remote and want a spare you 'might' be left with the options of:
- get somebody to sell you two matching remotes and have the master learn those codes
- get an unmatched remote and modify it to match using your solder iron, or
- you used to be able to order a matched remote by ordering one from your dealer using the code on the bottom of the master.
It does seem bizarre that if there is a learn function that the master could only learn one code. If you need to open the master to put it into learn mode for a single code that hardly seems like a time saver compared to setting the code using a dip switch. However, the remotes do have provision for 16 punch outs on the flexible board so perhaps a 16 position dip switch took up too much real-estate on the master circuit board.
If somebody had a keyless master and some unmatched remotes it would be interesting to carry out a test to see if the master could learn more than one code. Of course, that would end 20 + years of speculation about the keyless system.
Here is a pix of the key fob. The photo doesn't reflect what I see very well, but one can make out numbers next to the smaller diameter holes that appear to break the traces. I would believe that is what is talked about in the thread about dealers using a small punch to "Make" a new key fob work with an existing wireless control unit. And I can fundamentally see how one can solder across the cuts and make different cuts on that piece of film; although that soldering ability would far exceed my ability. 
Attachments
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Yes, the very small blue holes in the amber colored flexible film are the equivalent of 'off' on a programming DIP switch. Looking closely on the film you will find the numbers 1 - 16 marking the locations to be punched out. I don't know whether it was the dealership service department who punched out the holes or whether they just provided the unit number to Kenwood who supplied a new remote with the correct holes. And a double yes to the difficulty of trying to solder a bridge across the hole when trying to match up remotes. It would be so much easier if the learn function in the master could accommodate more than one code.
I’m going to try an open my wireless module today. As my module is original, I’m fairly sure I don’t have the learn button. But I will take pictures and wonder if soldering / cutting would be easier on the module, if I ever go down that route.
Maybe I’ll see several bad caps and fix my existing module.
Back the truck up! This is my original keyless module. I didn't get the best picture, but there is a learn switch down there. Maybe all these urban legends are true. Yes, the key fob is hard coded, and maybe only one code (multiple key fobs) per module, but maybe the module learns the hard coded fob?
![image[6].jpg](https://www.nsxprime.com/data/attachments/117/117015-34430192552586404922dfc8bbec907f.jpg?hash=NEMBklUlhk "image[6].jpg")
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