5 speed vs. 6 speed?

[angeno]

Hi All-

I'm contemplating the purchase of a low mile '94 5 speed NSX. In the past I've had the privilige of having driven '91 5 speeds as well as later year ('97 & '99) six speed cars. I seem to recall that at highway speeds, i.e. 75 to 85 mph, the 6 speed cars were less tach-ey. In other words it seemed that the engine was more relaxed at those speeds in top gear than I remember at comparable speeds in top gear with 5 speed cars.

The reason this is important to me is that I'm hoping this car can be a cross country crusier and not just a a canyon carver. For instance, though I fly far more frequently, I try to make the journey from NYC to LA by car at least twice annually. Usually I drive out and have the car trucked back but that's a different story!

Anyway, I'm just not sure if I will wish I had a ('97 or later) six speed with the more relaxed loping rpm at highway speed. Maybe I'm being overly sensitve inasmuch as driving an NSX at a sustained rpm of 3,500 to 4,500 should cause no damage, right? So I wondered if anyone has thoughts about this question. Thanks very much in advance for any wisdom and/or advice you might be able to offer.

 

[AndyH]

I have a 5-speed and rarely use 5th gear on the hwy. I always either use 3rd gear or 4th gear at 75-90MPH.

 

[NetViper]

I would go with the 6-speed if you can afford it. It is much better geared compared to the 91-94. I am not sure how much ower the RPM are at hiway speeds, but I never find my 93 loud on the highway at all. (for a sportscar... its no lexus)

 

[nsxtasy]

There isn't THAT big a difference between the two; it's less than 300 RPM at typical highway speeds. For example:

In a '97-04 NSX with the six-speed, if you're driving 80 mph in sixth gear, the engine is at 3168 RPM.

In a '91-96 NSX with the five-speed, if you're driving 80 mph in fifth gear, the engine is at 3441 RPM.

 

[apapada]

I have a 5-speed and rarely use 5th gear on the hwy. I always either use 3rd gear or 4th gear at 75-90MPH.

just curious why is that ? I mean, on a track I seldom go over 115, so 3rd gear is tops unless cooling down laps, but on a highway... why not use that 5th gear ?

 

[angeno]

There isn't THAT big a difference between the two; it's less than 300 RPM at typical highway speeds. For example:

In a '97-04 NSX with the six-speed, if you're driving 80 mph in sixth gear, the engine is at 3168 RPM.

In a '91-96 NSX with the five-speed, if you're driving 80 mph in fifth gear, the engine is at 3441 RPM.

This is a very useful opinion, thank you.. If at highway speed the difference is really that small, surely it can't translate into a significant "seat-of-the-pants" difference in how one experiences the performance of the car. What I was looking to avoid was buying an NSX (pre '97 5 speed) and finding that it was less than optimal for long distance cross country road trips.

In other words, if I understand you correctly, in your opinion, one should not necessarily forgo the purchase of a pre '97 on that basis alone...

That said, I would love to hear what others who have experienced both 5 and 6 speed NSX's think of the difference between the two in this regard.

 

[AndyH]

just curious why is that ? I mean, on a track I seldom go over 115, so 3rd gear is tops unless cooling down laps, but on a highway... why not use that 5th gear ?

I normally drive about 70-75MPH on 4th gear (yeah I'm a slow driver )
5th gear feel too slow when I want to change lanes

 

[nsxtasy]

just curious why is that ? I mean, on a track I seldom go over 115, so 3rd gear is tops unless cooling down laps, but on a highway... why not use that 5th gear ?

Because he wants to waste gasoline for no reason at all.

Originally posted by AndyH
5th gear feel too slow when I want to change lanes

Permit me to introduce you to a driving technique that you have apparently never heard of. It's called "downshifting".

 

[Lud]

This is a very useful opinion, thank you.. If at highway speed the difference is really that small, surely it can't translate into a significant "seat-of-the-pants" difference in how one experiences the performance of the car. What I was looking to avoid was buying an NSX (pre '97 5 speed) and finding that it was less than optimal for long distance cross country road trips.

That said, I would love to hear what others who have experienced both 5 and 6 speed NSX's think of the difference between the two in this regard.

The real difference between the 5- and 6-speed gearboxes is felt during acceleration down in the lower gears, not in the top gear cruising on the highway.

If your concern is that the 5-speeds might not be optimal for long distance cross country road trips, you have nothing to worry about because the 5-speeds are great for that.

 

[angeno]

The real difference between the 5- and 6-speed gearboxes is felt during acceleration down in the lower gears, not in the top gear cruising on the highway.

If your concern is that the 5-speeds might not be optimal for long distance cross country road trips, you have nothing to worry about because the 5-speeds are great for that.

Thank you. This was EXACTLY my concern. But it's good to hear that I may have worried needlessly.

 

[RyRy210]

Don't forget the '97 has alot of other changes as well besides the tranny.

From the FAQ:

Changes for 1997
-Three new colors: Kaiser Silver, Monte Carlo Blue, Spa Yellow
-Coupes can be special ordered with either a black top or a body color top; -Ts still have body colored roofs
-New wheel color on all wheels: Blades Silver (a bright machined/brushed looking finish)
-Larger front and rear brake rotor diameters and rotor thickness. The bracket and the rotors are the major change
-Front caliper pistons went from 40mm and 34mm to 40mm and 36mm.
-Larger engine displacement (bore increased from 90mm to 93mm) from 3.0L to 3.2L on manual transmission cars. Model number for new engine is C32B.
-Horse power increase from 270 hp to 290 hp and torque increase from 210 lbs-ft to 224 lbs-ft (manual tranny)
-Different exhaust manifolds, now stainless steel and free breathing
-Different cylinder linings, fiber reinforced (FRM)
-Larger intake valves
-Different head gaskets
-Larger connecting rod bearings
-Numerous emission control system changes
-Six speed manual transmission - 6th gear is engaged by a solenoid. The gearshift activates a switch to change gears.
-Double synchros on 3rd through 6th gears
-Lockout of reverse gear above 12mph
-Dual-disc clutch changed to a single disc clutch
-Dual mass flywheel
-Larger diameter spare tire to clear new brakes
-Stronger, thinner aluminum body panels
-Heat absorbing glass instead of bronze glass
-Immobilizer anti-theft system with coded key using an electronic transponder. No more all-metal keys.
-Ignition switch light went away to make room for the immobilizer antenna.
-Improved NVH (Noise Vibration and Harshness)
-The final gear ratio does not change, so 6th gear in the 1997 NSX results in 6.9% higher vehicle speed than 5th gear in the 1996 model.
-New aluminum alloy in selected body areas to reduce weight and increase rigidity
-Larger spare tire size (from 15 in to 16 in diameter)
-Refined electronic power steering control
-Revised shape of the front spoiler
-Refined ABS braking system
-Improved Traction Control System (TCS) with new control logic

 

[nsxexotic]

Permit me to introduce you to a driving technique that you have apparently never heard of. It's called "downshifting".

that was funny. hehe.

 

[Adanso]

There isn't THAT big a difference between the two; it's less than 300 RPM at typical highway speeds. For example:

In a '97-04 NSX with the six-speed, if you're driving 80 mph in sixth gear, the engine is at 3168 RPM.

In a '91-96 NSX with the five-speed, if you're driving 80 mph in fifth gear, the engine is at 3441 RPM.

NSXTASY, this is very very good info. I am in the process of looking for an NSX, and I dont want something that will be super high gear at cursing speeds. Thanks again.

 

[shawn110975]

Raise the dead

 

[davidf]

There is clearly nothing wrong with the 5 speed. Cruising at 70 your barely into 3000 RPM's which is nothing for these engines while still maintaining 25+ mpg.

NSXTASY, this is very very good info. I am in the process of looking for an NSX, and I dont want something that will be super high gear at cursing speeds. Thanks again.

 

[Computron]

I have a 2004 6-speed and I have to say that since this is really my first REAL sports car, I wasn't (and still am not) used to how high the RPMs are even in 6th! Like others have said, cruising at around 65 or so, you are at 3000rpm. Honestly, that's pretty close to what it's like in my 1989 1.5L Civic. I'm used to Honda's 3.5L V6s like in the Accord and Pilot and Odyssey where at 70, your RPMs are at like 1500!

So I guess you just have to get used to the higher RPMs at cruise. I wonder why they didn't make 6th a high overdrive gear since as others have stated most people don't even get to 6th anyways and you can always downshift as needed.

Bottom line is I don't think the higher revs is an issue for the motor. It's more the driver getting used to it.

 

[stuntman]

^due to the NSXs lack of torque at that rpm. Corvettes and vipers have very low rpm in 6th at cruising speeds because of their torque output at 1,200-1,500rpm. The NSX like the civic wouldnt be able to get out of its own way.

 

[Computron]

^due to the NSXs lack of torque at that rpm. Corvettes and vipers have very low rpm in 6th at cruising speeds because of their torque output at 1,200-1,500rpm. The NSX like the civic wouldnt be able to get out of its own way.

Isn't that what downshifting is for? And it's a 3.2L V6, not a 1.5L 4 banger. There's enough torque to maintain 65-70 even at 1500rpm. I mean older 3.0L V6s on Accords have lower rpms at highway speeds. I think they just wanted it geared this way because it's a sports car and they wanted more hp and torque on hand even in 6th. I would have preferred a super high overdrive 6th for cruising, but I don't think it was in the minds of the NSX gods who created this thing!

 

[Lostbuckeye]

Personally, I like the fact that I can be cruising at 60 to 70 mph and not have to downshift out of 6th to pass someone. The car pulls from 0 to its top speed...kind of cool in my book. If I want overdrive I'll buy an Accord.

 

[JD Cross]

Of the 100K miles on my 91 at least 70K has been on long highway drives.
I've found 5th gear on the highway is ideal for casual passing and decent gas mileage.

 

[Honcho]

I upgraded my (now jazzmann's) NSX to the JDM short gears and found them to be virtually indistinguishable from the 6-speed. I know Ken's math is correct, but this change completely transformed the NSX driving experience. IMHO, the USDM cars should have come with these gears from the factory. I kept the 4.06 final and long 5th, so highway cruising comfort is unchanged.

 

[stuntman]

Isn't that what downshifting is for? And it's a 3.2L V6, not a 1.5L 4 banger. There's enough torque to maintain 65-70 even at 1500rpm. I mean older 3.0L V6s on Accords have lower rpms at highway speeds. I think they just wanted it geared this way because it's a sports car and they wanted more hp and torque on hand even in 6th. I would have preferred a super high overdrive 6th for cruising, but I don't think it was in the minds of the NSX gods who created this thing!

It depends. 6th gear isn't that over-driven (0.717), and with a 245/40-17 it's mathematical speed at redline is 202mph, while your terminal velocity (due to HP and drag) is around 180mph. As you overdrive 6th more, you lose the torque multiplication of the gearing and your terminal velocity becomes lower. It's all a tradeoff of performance, top speed, fuel economy, etc...

 

[davidf]

The biggest upside to the 6 speed is FUN FACTOR. Stock 5 speeds have a looooooooong 2nd gear and 6 speed is more fun around town. If funds allowed, I'd own the brand new one FS in classifieds. :frown:

 

[jimminh]

The biggest upside to the 6 speed is FUN FACTOR. Stock 5 speeds have a looooooooong 2nd gear and 6 speed is more fun around town. If funds allowed, I'd own the brand new one FS in classifieds. :frown:

a CTSC takes a lot of the 'o's out of that long 2nd gear...

 

[naaman]

I have a 2004 6-speed and I have to say that since this is really my first REAL sports car, I wasn't (and still am not) used to how high the RPMs are even in 6th! Like others have said, cruising at around 65 or so, you are at 3000rpm. Honestly, that's pretty close to what it's like in my 1989 1.5L Civic. I'm used to Honda's 3.5L V6s like in the Accord and Pilot and Odyssey where at 70, your RPMs are at like 1500!

So I guess you just have to get used to the higher RPMs at cruise. I wonder why they didn't make 6th a high overdrive gear since as others have stated most people don't even get to 6th anyways and you can always downshift as needed.

Bottom line is I don't think the higher revs is an issue for the motor. It's more the driver getting used to it.

That number on the Pilot is way off. At 75 mph, the Pilot is over 2500 rpm. I know because whenever I drive my wife's car (2007 Pilot, 5-speed), I compare the rpms to my Camaro at the same speed. The Pilot is well over 2K, while the Camaro (6 speed) runs at about 1600 rpm (0.5 6th gear, 3.42 final gear).