2006 ACURA Sports Car NO NSX

[G-man]

I agree. I'm still sticking to the theory that they will release a $50k car, stop production of the NSX for 2 or 3 years and then introduce a completely knew car that will be the Ferrari fighter or what have you.

I agree. This is the only strategy that makes any sense. With Ferrari coming out with the new 500 hp 430 Modena to replace the aging (since 1999) 400hp 360 Modena in 2006 and Porsche to release the new generation 997-based 911 Twin Turbo that same year (clearly with no less than 500 hp) it would be foolish of Acura to shoot any lower than that. Heck, you can buy a 500hp, 500fp Dodge Viper for $80,000 these days and the Lamborghini Galardo is doing well at the $150-170k range also with 500hp. But, on the other side of the coin, take a look at the new Porsche Carerra S that has 355hp from its all new 3.8 liter engine. I drove it the ohter day and it rocks! But it still doesn't have the torque that even my NSX has.. and it is $100,000.

So, in summary. If you want to command $100,000 these days, you have to bring 350hp+ of NA power at about 3,000 lbs. if you want to command $150,000 you need at least 450 hp and no more than 2,900 lbs. I don't see any car being made going forward that would weigh less than 2,800 lbs and still pass all the safety requirements. The new Porsche 997 is a good example of how it is just too hard to make car safe and rigid enough and less than 3,000 lbs and still have it cost $79,000 base ($99,000 well equiped). I would much rather see Acura make a really delightful $50,000 car that used the 3.5L engine from the RL only at 350hp and make the car weigh a portly 3,198 lbs and make it as fun to drive as everything else they have now.

Then, if in a year or two, Acura wants to build a twin-turbo version of that 3.5L setup for the next Acura Supercar then 450-500hp out of that setup should be quite possible and with exotic body panels of carbon fiber helping to save weight, you might see a 2,798 lb car, but I think getting even a limited production car down to 2,600 lbs is unlikely. Just look at the Ferrari Enzo. That car costs $1,000,000 plus and has all sorts of exotic production techniques and it still weighs 3,262 lbs. Keep in mind the old 3rd gen RX-7 was 2,830 lbs but the new RX-8 is a portly 3,029 lbs. due to safety regulations.

But then again, it isn't always a numbers game either. Case in point, the Mitsubishi EVO RS that is 3,175 lbs and only 271hp but whips up on a Lamborghini Gallardo on the race track even though the Gallardo is 3,153 lbs and 500 hp?! And both of those are AWD! Having owned an EVO VIII my question is why can't all cars for $30,000 be this good! And you can buy 5 EVO RSs for what you pay for a Gallardo. Heck, if Acura doesn't have the stomach for this anymore, why not just buy the chassis from the EVO and reskin in to look like something people would actually want to buy! I am hoping the new RL is even remotely as good as the EVO was. If Mitsubishi can do it, why can't Acura?! The EVO is hands-down the best car under $30,000 you can buy and considering it comes with Brembo big-red brakes, Recaro seats and a Momo wheel... I think that Acura needs to start taking some notes. If they can't build a $55,000 or even $155,000 car that is at least as good as the EVO then they won't ever have a shot at the new Ferrari 430 Modena.

G-man

 

[hondaholic]

If you work for American Honda or even Honda Japan, you have no idea about a project unless you are working on it. How do you think they keep new product information secret until they want it released?

 

[G-man]

If you work for American Honda or even Honda Japan, you have no idea about a project unless you are working on it. How do you think they keep new product information secret until they want it released?

I don't claim to work for Honda or know anyone who does. That said, I do own and run a successful business that I have had for 11 years and I know the reality of the marketplace and realize as much as the next guy that Honda has to make this pass the common sense test before they would build anything. I will likely buy a new RL when they are finally out in a couple months and I already own an MDX and have had 2 NSXs. Clearly, I like what they are doing these days. I also like the S2000, but there are still some clear holes in the Honda/Acura line and a $55,000 sports car to shut down the new Corvette would be good. So would a $150,000 car that takes some of that sweet but more limited high end market from Ferrari and Ford. There is also the laws of physics and the law of supply and demand to deal with. There is no way that Acura could build a 2,600 lb car with 400 hp that didn't cost less than $500,000. So who would buy it. Not me. I lose enough money on cars buying the $100,000 ones.

 

[NetViper]

but there are still some clear holes in the Honda/Acura line and a $55,000 sports car to shut down the new Corvette would be good. So would a $150,000 car that takes some of that sweet but more limited high end market from Ferrari and Ford.

I agree with the $55K car. It should be 3.5L 350 HP NA car to compete with the vette and Carerra/Carerra S.

I think a $150K car would have no chance of selling because it is too close to the price point of the F430 and Gallardo. Of course, I guess that depends on the performance.

I think a $115K supercar with a V8 with 500 and 3000lbs would have a better chance. But, I think I just described the next Z06 and that will be I am guessing $65K. So that doesn't work.

I guess if Honda wanted to go for a $150K car, it needs to have enzo-like peformance for 1/4 the price. Afterall, that is what the Ford GT does.

What do you think?

 

[White92]

I guess if Honda wanted to go for a $150K car, it needs to have enzo-like peformance for 1/4 the price.

Well according to other thread topics from today, the ENZO was and is costing anywhere between $650K and 1.2 million. That's a pretty big gap to fill. Just think if Honda built a one off Enzo like car though. Holy crap that would be an awesome car no matter what the price!

 

[G-man]

I guess if Honda wanted to go for a $150K car, it needs to have enzo-like peformance for 1/4 the price. Afterall, that is what the Ford GT does.

What do you think?

Well, The Enzo is going for a cool $1MM in some places with a sticker upwards of $667,000. So, the $150,000 Ford GT is not 1/2 the price, but more like 1/4 the price of the Enzo. I used Ford's GT as a model since the original GT40 didn't really have that strong a following due to such limited numbers, yet builds on a "retro" feel that nobody else would have actually experienced. Go figure. I know for me, $150,000 is the most I am likley to pay for something. Unless you guys have a lot more "disposable" income that I do to dispose of, then I think it would be suicide to shoot for higher than $150,000. The just over $100,000 doesn't give them enough money above the current $89,200 price tag to make a huge leap given they have been losing money on the NSX for the last decade on them... and yet the Ford GT is sold out in advance of production for 2 years. Hmmmmm....

Come on Honda! Get with the program! If Ford can do it, you guys can. When the Corvette came out in C5 trim it was always compared to the NSX as an American NSX alternative, even copying some lines and styling cues. I don't want the next Acura sports car to be a Japanese Corvette... then we really will have an image issue to deal with.

Oh, yeah. I also don't know why Honda doesn't show up at NSXPO and put us all out of our misery over this. The folks at Mazda came to a track event and showed us the RX-8 two years before production... and I even ordered one. So, Honda, get off the stick and start paying attention to we Acura loyalists and enthusiats.

 

[G-man]

Well according to other thread topics from today, the ENZO was and is costing anywhere between $650K and 1.2 million. That's a pretty big gap to fill. Just think if Honda built a one off Enzo like car though. Holy crap that would be an awesome car no matter what the price!

Retail price for the Enzo is somewhere north of $650,000. Most dealers luck enough to be allocated one are charging whatever they want for it. Some early buyers lucky enough to get a fair shake from Ferrari at $650,000 simply put the car back up for private sale at $1MM mark to turn a quick $350,000 to buy a Ferrari 360 Spyder. Sounds good to me.

As far as Acura building something over $150,000 that others would want to buy, I can't imagine that the US Market is ready for a $250,000, $350,000 or $500,000 Acura. I can see the Automotive press having a field day with that one. Nobody lies awake in bed at night dreaming of owning an Acura. Porsche Carrera GT, sure. Ferrari Enzo, oh yeah. Ford Cosworth Powered GT, who would have thought... but an HSC... Nope.

Take a look at Aston Marin. They are having trouble selling cars in the $385,000 space so they roll out an AM-V8 (Baby Vantage) that will be here next year and only sell for $100,000. Lots to choose from in that market space and growing all the time.

 

[White92]

As far as Acura building something over $150,000 that others would want to buy, I can't imagine that the US Market is ready for a $250,000, $350,000 or $500,000 Acura. I can see the Automotive press having a field day with that one. Nobody lies away in bed at night dreaming of owning an Acura. Porsche Carrera GT, sure. Ferrari Enzo, oh yeah. Ford Cosworth Powered GT, who would have thought... but an HSC... Nope.

I completely agree. I didn't say I thought they would or should build that car for us. I was just saying imagine if some of the workers were just tooling around over at Honda and built a one off car using all current and future technology that they have. Imagine what they could put together. Whatever it was, it would surely be jaw dropping.

 

[G-man]

I completely agree. I didn't say I thought they would or should build that car for us. I was just saying imagine if some of the workers were just tooling around over at Honda and built a one off car using all current and future technology that they have. Imagine what they could put together. Whatever it was, it would surely be jaw dropping.

Now, THAT I agree with.

And the old saying applies here... "if they are so dang smart at Honda then why aint they rich?"

Acura still has some of the best ergonomics as well as hands down the best navigation system in the business. I am going to buy a new RL just to get the new 10" wide screen Nav system, XM and DVD Audio in something with 300hp and AWD?! Go figure. Now if only Acura would listen to me and make an RL Type S witih a 6-speed... then they would be making something.

 

[White92]

And I don't mean a "one off" like the 4 turbo Chrysler that was at the last auto show.

 

[G-man]

And I don't mean a "one off" like the 4 turbo Chrysler that was at the last auto show.

Yeah, my point exactly. Who is going to buy that think with that stupid Chrysler logo on the front... nobody.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

The proof will be in the pudding.

 

[surferX]

I find it hard to believe that honda would develop and build that HSC prototype with nothing to follow. What was the last concept car from honda that didnt devlop into a production car.

Hmmm....my personal favorite of "concept" cars that were developed by Honda but never produced was the 1995 Pininfarina Argento Vivo. Some nice pics at the link below.

1995 Honda Argento Vivo

Of course, the reason they never produced this car, was that they had already decided to produce the 1994 concept that became the S2000. Please note the 6 year lag between production decision and market release. Don't expect a new NSX any time soon!

Yet, Honda's real problem has nothing to do with sex appeal or power. Their real problem with selling the NSX is economics. There is nothing even close to it in price at an Acura dealership. Families looking at the RL or TL can't be up sold to an NSX. Honda has nothing to fill the gap in the $50-90K range. Meanwhile, Mercedes has a variety of sedans, SUVs, and luxury "sports" cars in the $50-130K range! Why do you think exotic cars are sold by dealers that sell other exotic and high end luxury cars? Why do you think Porsche made the Boxster? The 911 wasn't selling. They needed something to get people in their dealships. Following this same logic I really hope Acura builds two or more cars in that range. They need to push to the higher end of the luxury spectrum. Otherwise selling exotics don't me sense. Yes the "Ford" is sold out. But Honda was selling 3000 NSX's per year when it came out. They even sold 1500+ in 1997 with a performance upgrade. If Honda doesn't fill in their price gap, any new NSX will suffer the same fate as our current NSX no matter how it performs. Not to say that I mind the fate of the current NSX as one has found it's way into my collection. The guy in the Porsche C4S cabriolet that was starring at my taillights last night probably doesn't feel the same! He just feels foolish!

 

[willabeest]

Hmmm....my personal favorite of "concept" cars that were developed by Honda but never produced was the 1995 Pininfarina Argento Vivo. Some nice pics at the link below.

1995 Honda Argento Vivo

Of course, the reason they never produced this car, was that they had already decided to produce the 1994 concept that became the S2000. Please note the 6 year lag between production decision and market release. Don't expect a new NSX any time soon!

Yet, Honda's real problem has nothing to do with sex appeal or power. Their real problem with selling the NSX is economics. There is nothing even close to it in price at an Acura dealership. Families looking at the RL or TL can't be up sold to an NSX. Honda has nothing to fill the gap in the $50-90K range. Meanwhile, Mercedes has a variety of sedans, SUVs, and luxury "sports" cars in the $50-130K range! Why do you think exotic cars are sold by dealers that sell other exotic and high end luxury cars? Why do you think Porsche made the Boxster? The 911 wasn't selling. They needed something to get people in their dealships. Following this same logic I really hope Acura builds two or more cars in that range. They need to push to the higher end of the luxury spectrum. Otherwise selling exotics don't me sense. Yes the "Ford" is sold out. But Honda was selling 3000 NSX's per year when it came out. They even sold 1500+ in 1997 with a performance upgrade. If Honda doesn't fill in their price gap, any new NSX will suffer the same fate as our current NSX no matter how it performs. Not to say that I mind the fate of the current NSX as one has found it's way into my collection. The guy in the Porsche C4S cabriolet that was starring at my taillights last night probably doesn't feel the same! He just feels foolish!

looks like a 1966 corvette

 

[willabeest]

someone on NSXPRIME said they should just add on the comptech supercharger to the factory NSX's. so for 100K you would have (instantly) a new improved fast supercar.

Now, THAT I agree with.

And the old saying applies here... "if they are so dang smart at Honda then why aint they rich?"

Acura still has some of the best ergonomics as well as hands down the best navigation system in the business. I am going to buy a new RL just to get the new 10" wide screen Nav system, XM and DVD Audio in something with 300hp and AWD?! Go figure. Now if only Acura would listen to me and make an RL Type S witih a 6-speed... then they would be making something.

 

[Johnny@JETZ]

willabeest, we need a larger version of your Avatar. lol

 

[NetViper]

someone on NSXPRIME said they should just add on the comptech supercharger to the factory NSX's. so for 100K you would have (instantly) a new improved fast supercar.

That was me, and I think it would be an excellent way to increase sales and get more exposure. Keep the price @ 90K with the CTSC. We know most 04's are not selling anywhere near 90K anyway. To add the CTSC and push close to 400HP will get the attention of the automotive public. Most people look at the NSX and think underpowered, but I would bet few are aware of the FI options. When potential buyers see 400HP and 260TQ in the stats box, few would say that is underpowered.

 

[apapada]

next "NSX" will be AWD.

 

[NetViper]

next "NSX" will be AWD.

If they are going for lightweight, I personally doubt it will be AWD.

 

[sgvnsxrated]

willabeest, we need a larger version of your Avatar. lol

i concur.

 

[apapada]

If they are going for lightweight, I personally doubt it will be AWD.

you are somewhat correct. it will be SH-AWD or some derivative of it, just like the new RL. There are talks Acura namebrand vehicles will eventually all have 4 wheels driving systems in order to better differentiate between the brands (vs. Honda vehicles)

 

[willabeest]

lotus elise is 1900 pounds and 180 HP. so CTSC NSX is 3000 pounds and 400 HP. that means NSX is FASTER! = HEADLINES. hey Honda should give you a free NSX just for thinking of it!

That was me, and I think it would be an excellent way to increase sales and get more exposure. Keep the price @ 90K with the CTSC. We know most 04's are not selling anywhere near 90K anyway. To add the CTSC and push close to 400HP will get the attention of the automotive public. Most people look at the NSX and think underpowered, but I would bet few are aware of the FI options. When potential buyers see 400HP and 260TQ in the stats box, few would say that is underpowered.

 

[minervoflorida]

Well my 2 cents, I said it before and will say it again, 4 wheel drive with v6, 300 hp and 2 very powerful electric motors helping. This is in line with the way Honda wants to go green.

 

[apapada]

you are somewhat correct. it will be SH-AWD or some derivative of it, just like the new RL. There are talks Acura namebrand vehicles will eventually all have 4 wheels driving systems in order to better differentiate between the brands (vs. Honda vehicles)

and here is one clue...

 

[NetViper]

and here is one clue...

I can see it now. The New 2006 NSX AWD weighing 3400 lbs and a state of the art 290 HP V6