It would be interesting to know how many NSXs were actually purchased for 73-75k.
02 NSX vs 911 Review - Motor Magazine
- Thread starter NeoNSX
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Aha! The real ALLAN returns!
Like it or not, Allan is right on the money with this comment. People like the NSX and think it's interesting, but new car buyers in the $70-$90k market obviously don't buy them. Porsche, on the other hand, has no problem moving cars.
Last year NSX sales in the States were up 28 percent over 2001 and it was the best year for the NSX since 1999.
Last year Porsche sales were down 7 percent from 2001 and so far this year Porsche sales are down another 9 percent from last year.
ALLAN
Suspended
try putting those numbers into real perspective. Porsche sells a huge amount of cars and the economy will have a greater effect on its sales. Not only does Acura sell next to nothing in Nsx's, it was the models biggest re-do and huge price decrease that swayed upward sales. Porsche didnt feel the need to discount, and can live with lower sales. If Nsx sales get any lower, theyll be buying cars back from us.
It is no value for you in the US, but a good friend of me (that has a Porsche dealership) told me that officially there is no disocunt on the 911. "Offcially" since in Germany they do not want to have them public... you enter the showroom with the MSRP less 4'000 euros (=4'100$) right now and you will go out in half an hour with a signed contract for a 911. Probably more if you get the Turbo...
ALLAN
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Big difference between a 4,000 discount and 20,000.
Oh c'mon - at least acknowledge the magnitude of the numbers. Suppose Bugatti sells no EB-whatevers in 2004, and then 1 in 2005. "Sales are up by INFINITY! They're red hot, theyre flying off the shelves, while Ferrari sales are DOWN from 3000 to 2999!"
I was pointing out that the statement that "Porsche, on the other hand, has no problem moving cars" is not true at all. You can't say that for any company whose sales go down by 7 percent in one year, and 9 percent the next. Why do you think they're now selling trucks?
I stand by my statement. Porsche was coming off record sales leading up to this slump. Given a world on the brink of war and a slumping global economy, it seems specious to point to their current minor decline as some sort of pattern. Besides, as the article below points out, "the worlds most profitable car maker" has actually seen a nice increase in sales lately:
http://europe.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/12/04/porsche/index.html
As for "selling trucks" why shouldn't they attempt to exploit a ridiculously hot market? Surely you aren't suggesting that the Cayenne was some kind of sign of desperation? The 9 percent decrease was in US sales only. Overall sales were up, but .1 % only. It stands to reason that a company will make moves to better address a big market like the US (which means to sell ridiculous trucks since that's all Americans seem to want). The 9 percent US decrease was due to the Boxster supply finally having met demand. The Boxster had a damn good run for a car that was/is laughed at by many automotive "enthusiasts". Honda should be so lucky as to have that kind of success with the NSX!
[This message has been edited by spookyp (edited 18 February 2003).]
http://europe.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/12/04/porsche/index.html
As for "selling trucks" why shouldn't they attempt to exploit a ridiculously hot market? Surely you aren't suggesting that the Cayenne was some kind of sign of desperation? The 9 percent decrease was in US sales only. Overall sales were up, but .1 % only. It stands to reason that a company will make moves to better address a big market like the US (which means to sell ridiculous trucks since that's all Americans seem to want). The 9 percent US decrease was due to the Boxster supply finally having met demand. The Boxster had a damn good run for a car that was/is laughed at by many automotive "enthusiasts". Honda should be so lucky as to have that kind of success with the NSX!
[This message has been edited by spookyp (edited 18 February 2003).]
It's stated quite clearly in your article that Porsche sales in the United States have been in a severe decline: "Porsche's sales in it biggest market, the United States, fell nine percent in November as demand for its entry-level Boxster weakened." Their December sales were down 20 percent and their full-year sales in 2002 were down 7 percent from 2001. Maybe they're doing better in other markets, but they're not doing well here. If, according to your ridiculous claim, they were having "no problem" selling cars, they would be selling as many as they were a year ago. They're not.
As for "selling trucks" why shouldn't they attempt to exploit a ridiculously hot market? Surely you aren't suggesting that the Cayenne was some kind of sign of desperation?
Of course not. If my car sales were declining substantially, I would look at going selling trucks too.
As for "selling trucks" why shouldn't they attempt to exploit a ridiculously hot market? Surely you aren't suggesting that the Cayenne was some kind of sign of desperation?
Of course not. If my car sales were declining substantially, I would look at going selling trucks too.
"Declining substantially" because of a 9 percent drop in *US* sales as a result of the Boxster finally maxing out? Ken, seriously, you've got to be kidding if you're honestly trying to paint a picture of Porsche as a company in trouble desperately searching for a new market.
Actually, let's drop this one. You're logic is that the minute a company sees a decline in sales, they are having trouble moving product. I don't see it that way at all and I think certain corrections can be expected even of a very healthy product line, therefore we will reach no conclusion with this discussion.
Incidentally, my comment was in specific comparison to Hondas situation with the NSX. Honda has seen a staggering and steady decline in NSX volume to near 0 over the past decade. The "big increase" that you quoted is on 3 digit sales! In comparison to the NSX, It seems a fair statement that Porsche has no problem moving cars.
[This message has been edited by spookyp (edited 18 February 2003).]
Actually, let's drop this one. You're logic is that the minute a company sees a decline in sales, they are having trouble moving product. I don't see it that way at all and I think certain corrections can be expected even of a very healthy product line, therefore we will reach no conclusion with this discussion.
Incidentally, my comment was in specific comparison to Hondas situation with the NSX. Honda has seen a staggering and steady decline in NSX volume to near 0 over the past decade. The "big increase" that you quoted is on 3 digit sales! In comparison to the NSX, It seems a fair statement that Porsche has no problem moving cars.
[This message has been edited by spookyp (edited 18 February 2003).]
Stop telling lies by misquoting me. That's not what I said. I said that a company whose sales decline substantially cannot be described as having "no problem selling cars". When sales go down 7 percent or more, they're having a problem. It may be due to many different causes, some of which are not within their control, but they're having a problem selling cars.
If you want to drop the debate, then fine - say that you're dropping it, but don't continue arguing. As long as you continue to make silly statements, I'm going to continue to rebut them.
So you make lame excuses that Porsche's decline is due to one particular model (which means they are obviously having a problem moving those cars - duh!), but you want to compare Porsche's overall decline with one specific Honda model. If you want to make a comparison, don't compare apples to oranges. Want a comparison to Porsche's decline in sales? Here's one:
Porsche U.S. sales 2001: 23,041
Porsche U.S. sales 2002: 21,318 (down 7 percent)
Honda/Acura U.S. sales 2001: 1,207,639
Honda/Acura U.S. sales 2002: 1,247,834 (up 3 percent)
ALLAN
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Haha, Nsxtasy, sometimes you really speak nonsense. Your trying to compare the entire Honda lineup, a line of cars that border on function and ease of affordability, against Porsche, which manufactures and thrives in the UPSCALE Sportscar marketplace only. When push comes to shove, Porsche thrives in one of the hardest markets in the world to survive in, while Honda/Acura with its Sportcar entry, the Nsx, failed miserably.
Wrong, ALLAN. Porsche now sells trucks.
Porsche sales are down a bit after their all-time peak after they released 2 brand new models in '97 and '99, in a crappy economy. That does not mean they have a problem moving cars.
How about a ridiculous analogy.. Are you a baseball fan perchance? Barry Bonds hit 73 HRs in 2001, an all-time record. But he "only" hit 46 in 2002. Does that mean he had a problem hitting home runs? I say no, it only means that he had a superb HR season rather than an earth-shattering HR season.
Lou Merloni of my beloved Boston Red Sox hit 4 HRs, up 33% from his 2001 total of 3. THAT is a guy who, despite "increased" HRs, has trouble hitting HRs.
As for why is Porsche selling trucks, it is because they have sold their soul in the name of the mighty dollar/deutchemark/kronar, not because they are having trouble selling Boxsters/996s.
Am I missing something here?
[This message has been edited by Timbo (edited 18 February 2003).]
ALLAN
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Porsche sells trucks now, it didnt before.
Saxon34
Guest
To be honest, Porshe is doing something right. They have been around for a long time and have produced some good, fast and eye cathign automobiles. Their heritage speaks for them period. They are in the market for the long haul and are doing pretty well considering how much people are willing to pay to drive their products. That being said I think NSX is a better car for me. I prefer NSX but I would not try to defend it at any cost like some here have. It is not a perfect car and some may (indeed many do as sales numbers indicate) prefer 911 or Z06 or Lotus. Different strokes for ... .
One thing that I thnik has halted NSX in its track is the hp game that have always been a very important factor in sports car category. With hp close to the magic 300: Z35, RX8 (coming)are getting pretty close to the NSX numbers. Heck even Acura SL-S with its 260hp is gaining fast.NSX is slowly showing its age. Now having said all that, I still prefer NSX for the whole package and would buy it over a Porshe anyday (just not new). Ciao
One thing that I thnik has halted NSX in its track is the hp game that have always been a very important factor in sports car category. With hp close to the magic 300: Z35, RX8 (coming)are getting pretty close to the NSX numbers. Heck even Acura SL-S with its 260hp is gaining fast.NSX is slowly showing its age. Now having said all that, I still prefer NSX for the whole package and would buy it over a Porshe anyday (just not new). Ciao
well put Saxon34.
Hey Allan, some news for u... even ur diablo isn't perfect. let's argue about that.
On a friendly note, notice u live in Scottsdale... do u ever go cruisin with MYNSX/Phoen$x/AznSXgirl on weekends?
Hey Allan, some news for u... even ur diablo isn't perfect. let's argue about that.
On a friendly note, notice u live in Scottsdale... do u ever go cruisin with MYNSX/Phoen$x/AznSXgirl on weekends?
ALLAN
Suspended
No my diablo is not perfect, but for me, its as close to perfect as they come.
No i never go cruising with them.
No i never go cruising with them.
At the risk of repeating what has already been said..... I didn't like the article very much. It's the little 'things' that make me question whether or not the guy who tested the NSX bothered to take the time to read the owners manual. As unimportant as this may be [over all] don't ALL NSX's have tilt and telescoping steering wheels?? According the article. "Steering wheel only adjusts for reach." IF the steering wheel was set too high or too low [and unnecessarily so] wouldn't THAT effect how it 'feels' to drive?? [and make someone feel 'cramped' - perhaps - IF set to low] Although there really is no such thing as a completely unbiased opinion - I did get the feeling that the author's familiarity with Porsches gave IT a tremendous advantage. [even BEFORE the test began] The NSX would have to have been considerably BETTER than the Porsche for 'it' to even be considered an equal - for we all tend to be more forgiving of the familiar.
Craig!!
[This message has been edited by CanadaCraig (edited 26 February 2003).]
Craig!!
[This message has been edited by CanadaCraig (edited 26 February 2003).]
I seem to have had a post deleted here, no ?
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Yes, your message was deleted. If you have further questions, e-mail me or post a query in the "NSX Prime Discussion" forum. http://www.nsxprime.com/feedback.htm
err.... dunno what i've missed on this thread... but moving right along...
CanadaCraig: i read your comments, and i'd have to say you've summed the entire article up with the statement "...we all tend to be more forgiving of the familiar". EXACTLY! It's not so much bias, but the author's familiarity with Porsche's.
BTW, i live in Victoria too! (far far away though
)
CanadaCraig: i read your comments, and i'd have to say you've summed the entire article up with the statement "...we all tend to be more forgiving of the familiar". EXACTLY! It's not so much bias, but the author's familiarity with Porsche's.
BTW, i live in Victoria too! (far far away though
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