02 NSX vs 911 Review - Motor Magazine

[sjs]

What an idiot. I think comparing the NSX to the 911 is fine and I’m sure there are plenty of people interested in both. But where do they come up with the gonzos writing for magazines these days? He doesn’t like that the styling reminds him of the Bugatti, McLaren and Lambo? Gee, I’d hate to own any of those. He doesn’t like the ergonomics and seating position? I recently drove over 1200 miles straight though with only the briefest pit stops. I’m usually a bad squirmer and for years considered the Saab 900 as the best long-distance cruiser, but the NSX is even better yet the stock seats also have great support when cornering hard. That ain’t easy folks.

As far as I’m concerned he’s free to state as many subjective opinions as he likes, they give us a clearer picture of him, but he should at least get the facts right. Anything over 5’ 10” a problem with headroom? Hardly, as many of us normally proportioned taller people can attest. Shift at 7500? Forget the sounds it makes, he is obviously ignorant of the physics involved. But that helps explain his acceleration times. They pay this guy to test cars?

Do give him credit for admitting that the NSX handles better and it better behaved under duress, and that he liked the 6-spd. But I’m intrigued but the comments on straight line stability, lack of return to center, and poor feedback. That doesn’t sound like the NSX I know. There has been discussion that the tires on the new cars are not NSX specific and may not have the built-in scrub of the old ones. If true and if the alignment specs remain the same (especially toe out in front), that could explain much of it. I’d still expect the high castor setting to return it to center though.

Overall not as heavily biased as some of you seem to think, but some of his observations are wrong or just don’t make sense.

Why is the NSX so much more than the 911 there?

 

[NeoNSX]

SJS: good comments man...

He doesn’t like that the styling reminds him of the Bugatti, McLaren and Lambo? Gee, I’d hate to own any of those.

*lol*
But coz he's a porsche man, i bet he loves the <A HREF="http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/001571.html">central exhaust</A> on the boxster...

... subjective opinions as he likes, they give us a clearer picture of him, but he should at least get the facts right.

yes, although as a professional writer he should know to clearly distinguish between fact and personal opinion. He doesn't do that, let alone get his facts right.

Anything over 5’ 10” a problem with headroom?

this was a harsh comment, coz there are a LOT of men (and women!) in Australia taller than this. Hence people would think "oh, i wont even fit in the nsx"

They pay this guy to test cars?

...err... yeah. i'd be happy to do it for nothing (especially an NSX review

)

Australian reviewers all seen to be "Holden" and "Ford" men... which causes them to be a bit narrow minded (that's a generalization)

Overall not as heavily biased as some of you seem to think,

maybe...but in the same magazine he wrote an article called "Whale Tales" which was about the evolution of Porsche's back spoiler/fin. He is a Porsche-only man (the same as "I only have eyes for Honda's!"

)

Why is the NSX so much more than the 911 there?

I don't know for sure... tax maybe, Porsche have greater demand.

Plus Honda put the price high to make it look exotic. For example, the 2002 model saw the price jump from $AUS216,000 ('01 NSX-T Manual) to ~$AUS250,000+. That's about 20% more for what?

..geez... what a long post this is. sorry!

[This message has been edited by NeoNSX (edited 04 January 2003).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by sjs:
Why is the NSX so much more than the 911 there?

I don't know anything about pricing Down Under, but some people here in the States say the same thing. What they ignore is that (a) you can buy the NSX here for under $75K rather than its $89K MSRP (manufacturer's suggested retail price); (b) the only 911 you can buy for less than that is a $67K (MSRP and selling price) "stripped" model Carrera which doesn't have many features that the NSX includes as standard equipment (Porsche charges extra for metallic paint, sunroof or targa, HID lights, etc); and (c) 99 percent of 911 are sold out the door with options or as models for prices higher (often far higher) than the NSX.

 

[NeoNSX]

In reference to nsxtasy's comments:

i guess it goes back to the swimsuit analogy: both look good for different reasons.

the 911 is the 2-piece... it's still a swimsuit, but you get less for ur money.

the NSX is a 1-piece... u get more, and it's designed to be more comfortable. (not that i've ever worn one

)

...actually, maybe i should steer away from that swimsuit comparison....

 

[kld12]

NeoNSX,

If you are using the swimsuit analogy, wouldn't the nsx be the 2-piece, cuz I think its more sexy

. (we're talking women's swimsuits right? Okay, forget the swimsuit analogy before this thread become a swimsuit competition, hehe)

 

[NeoNSX]

<FONT COLOR=red>LAST WEEK TO READ THE ABOVE MAGAZINE REVIEW</FONT> if you haven't already done so. I will be removing the review along with the <A HREF="http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au/nsx/pulp_fiction_acura_nsx_(divx5.02).avi">Mr.Wolf from Pulp Fiction</A> video clip late next week.

KLD12: if everyone voted whether they liked 1 or 2 piece (women) swimsuits more, at least this post would stay at the top of the list for the next month!

[This message has been edited by NeoNSX (edited 15 January 2003).]

 

[Imola]

It is very apparent that the gentleman has never been familiar with an NSX due to his commments on page 60 regarding how hard it is to close the engine boot cover and trunk. The poor NSX having them slammed to no end to get them closed. He didn't even have the cognitive ability to think about trying to close them softly with a simple push.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by NeoNSX:
if everyone voted whether they liked 1 or 2 piece (women) swimsuits more

0 piece.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 15 January 2003).]

 

[Joel]

Originally posted by NeoNSX:
<FONT COLOR=red>LAST WEEK TO READ THE ABOVE MAGAZINE REVIEW</FONT> if you haven't already done so. I will be removing the review along with the <A HREF="http://www.westallsc.vic.edu.au/nsx/pulp_fiction_acura_nsx_(divx5.02).avi">Mr.Wolf from Pulp Fiction</A> video clip late next week.

Why delete it?

 

[NeoNSX]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
0 piece.

*LOL* I've been trying to find a reason to use that smiley! hahahah... u're too smart...

Have to delete these files because the server they are on belongs to a school i work at, and next week the students return... so the link will be SLOOOOOWWWW...<timeout>

 

[NeoNSX]

i'm a bit slow... i only just noticed the motor mag review is on the frontpage of NSXprime. i hope some other visitors read it and post comments.

lud; u planning to keep this on prime? it's ok with me... just curious.

 

[spazmonic]

There are faster cars than the NSX out there, but the Z28 isn't one of them.[/qoute]

Well said. I would have to agree. I have been around a lot of Z28s. They definitely haul ass, but simply put, the NSX is faster.

Of course, I am likely to get flamed for saying something like this, because I am new to the boards.

 

[spazmonic]

In response to what a lot of people have been saying that Honda needs to beef up the engine at least a little to keep up with the times...

I would have to disagree with that. Honestly, power is not something that I (or anyone who buys an NSX) buy an NSX for. It would always be nice to have some more hp, but I definitely would never criticize Honda for it.

I think in general, people judge the NSX (such as the magazine article 911 vs NSX) too much on track times, when someone who actually test-drives one will give more credit to the beauty, exotic design and f-1 engineering, rarity and every-day driveability. It may not have as much (or nearly as much) power as a Viper, or a Z06, but I don't even concern myself with that, because it's just not the type quality that I look for in the NSX.

 

[NSXaholic]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...Porsche charges extra for metallic paint, sunroof or targa, HID lights, etc);

In general, I think comparing an "$89K" NSX with a "$67K" Porsche is a flawed analogy, and so I agree in principle with nsxtasy, when he says making such a statement is flawed.

I also agree that Porsche charges for many options, but a sunroof is one option that is included in the price

A "targa," however, is not an option, but a whole different 911 marque. So whereas you can choose to have your Coupe with Litronics as a possible option, for example, you can't choose to have a Coupe with a "Targa" option. You either buy a Coupe or a Targa (or another 911 marque).

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...(c) 99 percent of 911 are sold out the door with options or as models for prices higher (often far higher) than the NSX.

No, this is not true. You can get (any many do) a nicely equipped new Porsche Carrera Coupe for $75K. Just as NSX's sell below MSRP, so do Porsches, often $3K - $5K, depending on what point in the year you buy them. You can go absolutely overboard on options, which can increase the price well above the mid-$70's, but by and large, most C2's sell around $75K. From a pricing standpoint, then, the Carrera Coupe and the NSX are on even keel.

Regards.

[This message has been edited by NSXaholic (edited 15 February 2003).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by NSXaholic:
I also agree that Porsche charges for many options, but a sunroof is one option that is included in the price

Oops, my error. Still, I find the fact that they charge extra for metallic paint to be OBSCENE. Let's get serious here. Porsche charges $3,070

extra if you want a metallic paint color on your Carrera Coupe. I'm not talking about matching a metallic paint color to your sample ($4,315). I'm talking about getting one of the stock 911 metallic paint colors on the car. Don't you think that's obscene? Heck, even a Honda Civic doesn't charge anything extra for a metallic paint color.

Originally posted by NSXaholic:
A "targa," however, is not an option, but a whole different 911 marque. So whereas you can choose to have your Coupe with Litronics as a possible option, for example, you can't choose to have a Coupe with a "Targa" option. You either buy a Coupe or a Targa (or another 911 marque).

Well, if you'd like to play a game of semantics, sure, we can do that. First, you should know that the word "marque" usually refers to a brand name (Porsche, Acura) or even a model line (Boxster, NSX) but never an specific configuration of options. For example, I don't know anyone who would refer to the Carrera Coupe, the Carrera Cabriolet, the Carrera 4S Coupe, the Carrera 4 Cabriolet, and the Targa as five separate "marques". Most people would only consider either the Porsche brand name overall, or possibly the 911 (or 996) model line, as a marque. Not every single model designation. So if you're going to try playing a game of splitting semantic hairs, you ought to use your terms correctly.

As far as whether the Targa is a $7,300 option on the base 996, or a separate model designation that costs $7,300 more, I really don't care what you call it. The fact remains that if you want a Targa top instead of the $69,365 base model, you will have to pay $7,300 more for it.

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
99 percent of 911 are sold out the door with options or as models for prices higher (often far higher) than the NSX.

Originally posted by NSXaholic:
No, this is not true.

Yes, it is, absolutely true. You may not want to believe it, but it is true anyway.

In fact, Edmunds has a new feature called "typical options" that shows how much is usually added to each model by most buyers. They show that the typical buyer of the base model 2003 996 for $69,365 adds $10,935

of options, for a total of $80,300, which is already substantially higher than the cost of a new NSX. And this is for the least expensive of the thirteen different model designations of the 911 line, so we can only assume that most 911s go out the door even higher than that.

Here are a couple of quotes from Edmunds's review of the 2003 Carrera Coupe:

"The company also charges a fortune for many of the 911's options."

"Be forewarned, however, that it's all too easy to jack up the price of a 911; some of the options can cost more than $7,000."

Oh, and the typical options cost for the buyer of a 2003 NSX according to Edmunds: zero. And, as we've seen from recent purchases reported here, that $73.5K for a new NSX often includes the dealer-installed floor mats, trunk mat, and CD player thrown in.

Originally posted by NSXaholic:
You can get (any many do) a nicely equipped new Porsche Carrera Coupe for $75K.

But most don't, according to Edmunds. Oh, and even your figure proves my point, by showing that even the minority who get fewer options than the typical Carrera Coupe buyer still pay more for it than they would for a new NSX.

Originally posted by NSXaholic:
Just as NSX's sell below MSRP, so do Porsches, often $3K - $5K, depending on what point in the year you buy them.

Not according to my Porsche friends, who say that it is rare to get a significant discount from MSRP. And not according to Edmunds, whose "True Market Value Pricing" shows a typical discount from MSRP of only $155.

Originally posted by NSXaholic:
You can go absolutely overboard on options, which can increase the price well above the mid-$70's, but by and large, most C2's sell around $75K.

Not true at all. See facts and references - not just opinions - stated above.

Originally posted by NSXaholic:
From a pricing standpoint, then, the Carrera Coupe and the NSX are on even keel.

Again, this is not true at all. Even the Carrera Coupe is likely to go out the door for $80,000, which is $6500 more than the NSX. And again, this is only one of the thirteen 911 model designations. Since the cheapest 911 model is going out the door for $6500 more than the NSX, I can only assume that all the other 911 models are selling for an even bigger difference in price.

 

[NSXaholic]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Oops, my error...

You missed the smiley face at the end of my comment. The point is that I caught you. Lighten up. Once again:

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...As far as whether the Targa is a $7,300 option on the base 996, or a separate model designation that costs $7,300 more, I really don't care what you call it. The fact remains that if you want a Targa top instead of the $69,365 base model, you will have to pay $7,300 more for it.

Nobody's contesting the fact that you have to pay more for a targa. But the point was that it's not an "option" you can choose, which makes it beyond an issue of semantics. You were listing options -- "sunroof or targa" -- and that's not the right way to think about the targa. Hey, if that's the case, a C4 is just an "option" that costs a few thousand more; and a C4S just an "option" for a few more grand. It's not thought this way by me, nor any Porsche dealer, and nor should it be thought this way by a potential purchaser (or you).

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
In fact, Edmunds has a new feature called "typical options" that shows how much is usually added to each model by most buyers. They show that the typical buyer of the base model 2003 996 for $69,365 adds $10,935 of options, for a total of $80,300, which is already substantially higher than the cost of a new NSX. And this is for the least expensive of the thirteen different model designations of the 911 line, so we can only assume that most 911s go out the door even higher than that

I wonder what Edmund's sample size is of this "new feature." I'd wager pretty small to be fully representative. Also, I'll take my in-front-of-people-everyday Chicago-land Porsche representative and my recent conversations with potential sellers over Edmunds any day. In those discussions, the numbers have been much smaller.

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...And, as we've seen from recent purchases reported here, that $73.5K for a new NSX often includes the dealer-installed floor mats, trunk mat, and CD player thrown in

I'm sorry, wasn't that for an 2002 model year. Are you comparing an '03 Porsche that has just come into showrooms to an '02 NSX that dealers were trying to get out the door??

Isn't that like comparing apples and or... well, you know the phrase.

Can somebody point me to where an '03 has sold for 73.5K??

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
But most don't, according to Edmunds. Oh, and even your figure proves my point, by showing that even the minority who get fewer options than the typical Carrera Coupe buyer still pay more for it than they would for a new NSX

Your facts are only as good as your source. I'll stick to what the guys who actually sell the cars say.

In fact, funny to see you quoting Edmunds so regularly nsxtasy, when...well, didn't you just post these quotes:

* The editors at Edmunds are a bunch of hypocrites

* Of course, their previous road test article of the 2002 NSX was every bit as inaccurate and biased as the current one

Seems to me that you are choosing to rely on them rather selectively.

Further, if you consider a grand here or there (which could go in either car's advantage) as significant price differences, then it is you who is splitting hairs.

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Not according to my Porsche friends, who say that it is rare to get a significant discount from MSRP. And not according to Edmunds, whose "True Market Value Pricing" shows a typical discount from MSRP of only $155.

Another very flawed data point. It is routine to get $3 - $4K off of MSRP, and more, depending on when you buy the car as I had alluded to earlier. Ask me, I've been a Porsche owner. And I was asking prices at a dealer again this very afternoon. These cars are moving slow, like all exotics, and they are selling them below MSRP to get them out the door. If Edmunds gives such a warped example of the discount being only $155, I can only imagine how represetative the rest of their data must be.

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Again, this is not true at all. Even the Carrera Coupe is likely to go out the door for $80,000, which is $6500 more than the NSX. And again, this is only one of the thirteen 911 model designations. Since the cheapest 911 model is going out the door for $6500 more than the NSX, I can only assume that all the other 911 models are selling for an even bigger difference in price

Again, you continue to rely on Edmunds, which does not have representative data. Most of them walk out the door for ~$75K. On average, they sell on par with the NSX.

Here is a decently-equipped 03 Carrera Coupe that is being sold pre-owned, but which lists the original MSRP of $74,520.

DuPont Registry (for some reason can't link) has other examples of new, well-eqipped '03's being listed by an authorized Porsche dealer with a lot of options. The asking price is $76,xxx. Althoug this is competitive, expect them to drop the selling price by another grand or so.

So yes. Pricing is on even keel with the NSX.

Regards.

[This message has been edited by NSXaholic (edited 15 February 2003).]

 

[mlambert890]

Sometimes I feel like I'm living on another planet. I look at this other planet where everyone gets everything for tens of thousands of dollars cheaper and I feel so lost and alone!

I visited a Porsche dealer a couple of months ago curious about the C4S. *Modestly* optioning it out, I easily climbed into the mid 90s. Not ONE 911 on the floor had less than $8-$10k in options. As far as getting it below MSRP, I couldnt get one PERIOD. They were talking about April *at the earliest* for the C4S if I were willing to sign right there for the 90 something K.

To be honest, I've really never heard of *anyone* buying a 911 C2 with NO options and I've never heard of anyone getting a brand new one under MSRP.

Maybe it's a NYC thing (like the Bay Area) but I prefer to not buy cars from 12 states away sight unseen, so what can ya do?

 

[NSXaholic]

Originally posted by spookyp:
Sometimes I feel like I'm living on another planet. I look at this other planet where everyone gets everything for tens of thousands of dollars cheaper and I feel so lost and alone!

I visited a Porsche dealer a couple of months ago curious about the C4S. *Modestly* optioning it out, I easily climbed into the mid 90s. Not ONE 911 on the floor had less than $8-$10k in options. As far as getting it below MSRP, I couldnt get one PERIOD. They were talking about April *at the earliest* for the C4S if I were willing to sign right there for the 90 something K.

To be honest, I've really never heard of *anyone* buying a 911 C2 with NO options and I've never heard of anyone getting a brand new one under MSRP.

Maybe it's a NYC thing (like the Bay Area) but I prefer to not buy cars from 12 states away sight unseen, so what can ya do?

spookyp, the C4S is a unique example. It was introduced just last year in limited production, and has been a huge hit as it represents a nice in-between the C2 and the Turbo. You are right, for the C4S you will not find a single new one below MSRP, and most of them come loaded with options (catering to a slightly different clientele then the basic C2).

My comments above were basically intended to reflect the situation for the C2 Coupe -- which IMHO is the most representative comparison to the X (and I guess the authors of the "911 vs. the NSX" article agree as well, because that's the car that they chose.

Gotta run for the night. Parties call!!

Regards.

[This message has been edited by NSXaholic (edited 15 February 2003).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
As far as whether the Targa is a $7,300 option on the base 996, or a separate model designation that costs $7,300 more, I really don't care what you call it. The fact remains that if you want a Targa top instead of the $69,365 base model, you will have to pay $7,300 more for it.

Originally posted by NSXaholic:
Nobody's contesting the fact that you have to pay more for a targa. But the point was that it's not an "option" you can choose, which makes it beyond an issue of semantics.

Nonsense, Vik - the fact remains, YOU'RE SPLITTING HAIRS. This is why I said that you're argumentative, and you're STILL being argumentative. A Targa top Porsche will cost you $7,300 more than a fixed roof coupe. You can call it an option or another model or even erroneously call it a marque. You can try to distract attention by arguing arguing arguing arguing arguing that one word applies to the price difference instead of another. The fact remains, it costs $7,300 more. PERIOD.

I used the most recent information available, which includes 2003 list prices for the Porsche and 2002 selling prices for the NSX. As is your usual form, you take issue and argue argue argue argue argue with the fact that I used different years for the two cars, but that is the most recent information available. No, I don't know anyone who bought a 2003 NSX for $73.5K - or for any other price, for that matter; the 2003 has only been on the market for what, two weeks? Get a life, Vik. Stop arguing, stop taking issue and quibbling with every point I make.

I won't respond to the rest of your argumentation point by point, because that's all it is - argumentation and splitting hairs. A few simple facts remain:

1. Porsche makes 13 models of 911 that vary in price.

2. Porsche charges thousands of dollars for 911 options that are standard on the NSX.

3. It is possible to buy a base model 911 with no options for less than the cost of a new NSX.

4. Most people don't. When you take into account the cost of options and the thirteen different 911 models that are made, the fact remains that the vast majority of 911s sold are not stripped versions of the base model and DO cost more than a new NSX.

If you don't want to believe that, fine - that's your opinion. Your opinion disagrees with that of the PCA members I know. Your opinion conflicts with the Porsche price list. Your opinion fails to justify obscene prices for Porsche options. Your opinion ignores all those more expensive 911 models. Your opinion disagrees with every other source I've spoken to and read. So if you like, you can continue to hold your opinion. But don't argue on and on and on and on and on, and nitpick about what is an option and what is a separate model, or try to pick apart every sentence I write.

You're welcome to your opinion. Perhaps you should state it on a Porsche forum. I'm sure you can find other people there just like you, who will agree with you because they want to believe it, regardless of whether it's true or not.

 

[NSXaholic]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...The fact remains, it costs $7,300 more. PERIOD.

I never contested that at any point (I even reiterated that I was not contesting it in my previous post -- please go back and read that). However it is not an option, so when you calculate the cost of the additional "options" to the base value of a Carrera Coupe -- the most relevant car to compare to the NSX -- to figure out if a nicely-"optioned" Carrera Coupe is more or less than an NSX, you cannot count this as one of them. If you don't get this Ken, I'm sorry; I can't explain it any more clearly.

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I used the most recent information available, which includes 2003 list prices for the Porsche and 2002 selling prices for the NSX...

This is a completely wrong way to analyze the two cars. Comparing the MSRP value of a new 03 model year Porsche to the selling price of an '02 NSX model that was sold in '03. Please Ken -- that's ridiculous!!

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
When you take into account the cost of options and the thirteen different 911 models that are made, the fact remains that the vast majority of 911s sold are not stripped versions of the base model and DO cost more than a new NSX.

We're not talking about the "vast majority" of 911's. We are talking about the Carrera Coupe, which is the most comparable car to the NSX. This is what I clearly stated in my original post, and what I reiterated in my post to spookyp. The editors of MOTOR must believe that too, since that is the car they chose for comparison.

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...But don't argue on and on and on and on and on...or try to pick apart every sentence I write.

Funny Ken, I thought I might say the same about you and your posts.

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
You're welcome to your opinion. Perhaps you should state it on a Porsche forum. I'm sure you can find other people there just like you, who will agree with you because they want to believe it, regardless of whether it's true or not.

I am a frequent contributor to the Porsche forums; as a result I see what dealers and private individuals are trying to sell their cars for. Perhaps you might want to take a gander there to get a dose of reality -- rather than what "Edmunds" says.


Ken, there is no question that different 911 versions sell for different prices, often higher than the NSX. But that was never my contention. After all, you can't compare a 911 Turbo (based on your line of reasoning the argument would be: "Hey it's still a 911") to the NSX. You've got to compare the most relevant car, which I believe is the Carrera Coupe. There, in that situation, with this specific car, it would be fair to say -- and this has been my point all along -- that a nice equipped Carrera Coupe sells on par with an NSX.

Here is a quote from my original post:

Originally posted by NSXaholic:
No, this is not true. You can get (any many do) a nicely equipped new Porsche Carrera Coupe for $75K...by and large, most C2's sell around $75K. From a pricing standpoint, then, the Carrera Coupe and the NSX are on even keel.

***

NOTE: I have tried to be polite and cordial in all my responses to your posts Ken. However, I take serious offense to comments like "GET A LIFE." If you disagree with a point I have made, you are entitled to say so, but do not resort to making personal attacks. It is in extremely poor taste, and reflects very badly on you. Plus I don't appreciate it at all.

Regards.

[This message has been edited by NSXaholic (edited 16 February 2003).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Vik,

As I was trying to do in my previous post, let's take a step back, and see what we're really talking about here. We're talking about how the 911 prices compare with those of the NSX.

Please, let's not get into "word arguments" about what is an option versus what is a model designation, because then we're arguing about the words, rather than the concepts they describe.

My "get a life" comment was a response to your continued attempts (now for the third time

) to argue over what is an option versus what is a separate model designation. I'm sorry if this comment offended you; it was not intended to be an attack on your person, but rather, on your repeated attempts to argue over which words we use to describe pricing. As noted above, we should be discussing concepts, not the words. And the concept is that it costs more to get features on the 911 that are standard on the NSX, regardless of what words you use.

In my previous post, I was attempting to summarize how the pricing of the two cars compare by presenting the four numbered statements above. Apparently you are taking issue with that. Let's see if I can provide a revised summary that is more to your liking:

1. Porsche makes 13 models of 911 that vary in price.

2. Two of those 13 model designations of 911, the Carrera Coupe (manual and Tiptronic) typically sell for a price on a par with the NSX. The other 11 typically sell for more than the NSX.

3. You must pay thousands of dollars more to get a 911 with features (such as metallic paint, HID lights, and a removable roof panel) that are standard on the NSX.

Regarding the first statement, these are the thirteen 911 model designations and MSRP for the 2002 model year:

Carrera Cabriolet Manual, MSRP $78,365
Carrera 4 Cabriolet Manual, MSRP $83,965
Carrera 4 Cabriolet Tiptronic, MSRP $87,395
Carrera Cabriolet Tiptronic, MSRP $81,795
Carrera Coupe Manual, MSRP $68,665
Carrera 4S Coupe Manual, MSRP $80,965
Carrera 4S Coupe Tiptronic, MSRP $84,395
Carrera Coupe Tiptronic, MSRP $72,095
GT2, MSRP $180,665
Targa Coupe Manual, MSRP $75,965
Targa Coupe Tiptronic, MSRP $79,395
Turbo Coupe Manual, MSRP $115,765
Turbo Coupe Tiptronic, MSRP $119,195

Regarding your quibbling about using a mix of '02 vs '03 selling prices for the two cars. Fine - let's look at prices for the two cars for the '02 model year as they were sold during the '02 calendar year, because figures for both cars are readily available for this period.

The NSX typically sold for around $73-75K throughout most of calendar 2002. That's why its sales were up so dramatically over 2001. Most of these sales were in late summer and early fall.

AutoWeek did an Autofile survey of owners of the base 911 Carrera in Spring of 2002, which you can see here. According to that survey, buyers of this car paid $71,600 to $74,965, with an average price of $73,515.

Thus, according to these latest available figures, your contention is correct - the base model 911 (but ONLY the base model 911) sells for about the same price new as the NSX. The other models 911, including other normally aspirated 911 models as well as the higher-performance turbo ones, sell for significantly more.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 16 February 2003).]

 

[NSXaholic]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...Thus, according to these latest available figures, your contention is correct - the base model 911 (but ONLY the base model 911) sells for about the same price new as the NSX....

And that was my point all along. I appreciate you acknowledging that I was correct.

Regards.

[This message has been edited by NSXaholic (edited 16 February 2003).]

 

[nsxtasy]

So, am I the only one who thinks it's obscene for the manufacturer of a car costing well over $60,000 to charge $3,070 extra just for a stock color of metallic paint?

 

[LJSB]

To the NSX critic(s).
I like the NSX more than a 911 or ZO6,Viper,
Mustang or Z28.
It is not because of one thing but because of the total package or as I like to say "all things."
If you don't like the NSX fine.
You have something faster, so what?
Someone always will and maybe for less money than even the ride you have now or the one you have in mind.
If you can afford a NSX and/or don't want one, then why should their existence or someone wanting one and buying/owning one be a problem?
Why must the owners of such be denounced or deemed excessive or just stupid for loving this car?It seems odd that this vehicle could provoke such criticism from the sidelines where ownership is not a issue or possibilty.
I for one am a car nut.
I like GTO's, Bizzarinis, Avanti's, Subarus, Vettes, Vipers,MG'S,E-Types, T-Birds, Camaros,Mustangs, Jags,Ferraris',TRWs',Triumphs', Cobras,Sunbeams,BMW, Chevys', Hemis',Dauphenes', Citrons, Bel Airs' and the list goes on and on. There's a big list of trucks I think are mighty fine too(like a 5 window Chevy and my Ford 550).
Don't rain on my parade and I won't spit in your soup.
Yeah, we want more of everything. Who doesn't?
If you don't like the NSX move on. Move your lips (or in this case fingers) elsewhere.
You ain't got much of a chance getting converts here.
Ride,decide, buy.

 

[ALLAN]

You must also remember one thing, when a product is very much in demand, there is no need to discount it. You can also charge as much as you want as long as the buying public sees value in it. This is the case in the Porsche.

As for the Nsx, its asking price is significantly higher than most of the Porsches, Msrp being around 90,000. Due to the fact that there is NO desirability, and no public buying value at this price, the car is discounted significantly.

If Acura had its way, you would be paying 90,000.