02+ LED Conversion Including HID Assembly

[Osiris_x11]

led astray...

Don't get the 9 LED festoons! The 4 LED bulbs are waaaay brighter. Not sure why though...

Whoa... interesting observation! Any insights about the 6-LED festoon [#3022 31mm]?

Oddly enough, the 9-LED wedge [#921] is better for the license-plate lights application than the 5-LED wedge or 6-LED wedge (in terms of quantity of light produced).

 

[TURBO2GO]

Don't get the 9 LED festoons! The 4 LED bulbs are waaaay brighter. Not sure why though...

Can you be exact and tell me what part # you are recommending be replaced with what other part#?

 

[Deltron Zero]

Re: led astray...

I didn't see a 3022-x6 LED Festoon bulb at superbrightleds.com. Where did you see it? The 921-x9 Wedge Base LED bulb is definitely the best bulb to use for the license plate lights. The 5-LED wedge or 6-LED wedge have too focused of a beam, and the 9-LED has more of a bluish/purplish tint. They light up the ground really nice! The 921-x12 Wedge Base LED bulb is new to me. Has anyone used this bulb for the front parking lights (not the turn signals). I've got the 6-LED wedge in there now, but I could go brighter...

Whoa... interesting observation! Any insights about the 6-LED festoon [#3022 31mm]?

Oddly enough, the 9-LED wedge [#921] is better for the license-plate lights application than the 5-LED wedge or 6-LED wedge (in terms of quantity of light produced).

 

[Osiris_x11]

fit...

I didn't see a 3022-x6 LED Festoon bulb at superbrightleds.com. Where did you see it? The 921-x9 Wedge Base LED bulb is definitely the best bulb to use for the license plate lights. The 5-LED wedge or 6-LED wedge have too focused of a beam, and the 9-LED has more of a bluish/purplish tint. They light up the ground really nice! The 921-x12 Wedge Base LED bulb is new to me. Has anyone used this bulb for the front parking lights (not the turn signals). I've got the 6-LED wedge in there now, but I could go brighter...

3022-x6 LED is at Autolumination & Superlumination. I was gonna go w/ those (compromise between 4-LED & 9-LED) for doors/trunk and 9-LED for dome.

I have 5-LED ("ultra-white"), 6-LED ("refractive"), and 9-LED ("focussed") in 168/194. I'll try them all for the front parking lights.

921-x12 'might' be too long & wide in terms of fitment for the front parking lights. I think the 9-LED 168/194 is currently the 'largest' LED bulb that can be fitted in that spot.

Dimensions: (l x w)
921 = 1.25" x 5/8"
168/194 = 1"-1.125" x 7/16"

 

[Deltron Zero]

WLED 6-LED bulbs (white) for parking lights
921-x9 Wedge Base LED bulbs (white) for license plate lights
3022-x4 LED Festoon bulbs (white) for interior lights

all of these are available at superbrightleds.com

Can you be exact and tell me what part # you are recommending be replaced with what other part#?

 

[Deltron Zero]

Re: fit...

not sure about the 3022-x6 LED bulbs at Autolumination, but the 9 LED festoons are not bright at all and look very pinkish...

3022-x6 LED is at Autolumination & Superlumination. I was gonna go w/ those (compromise between 4-LED & 9-LED) for doors/trunk and 9-LED for dome.

I have 5-LED ("ultra-white"), 6-LED ("refractive"), and 9-LED ("focussed") in 168/194. I'll try them all for the front parking lights.

921-x12 'might' be too long & wide in terms of fitment for the front parking lights. I think the 9-LED 168/194 is currently the 'largest' LED bulb that can be fitted in that spot.

Dimensions: (l x w)
921 = 1.25" x 5/8"
168/194 = 1"-1.125" x 7/16"

 

[SilverStone05]

Re: fit...

not sure about the 3022-x6 LED bulbs at Autolumination, but the 9 LED festoons are not bright at all and look very pinkish...

Pink and not bright, eh? Put down the pipe. :wink:

 

[Deltron Zero]

Re: fit...

Really? Maybe I got a dud. I ordered a bunch, threw one in real quick and didn't like it. I'll try some of the others.

Pink and not bright, eh? Put down the pipe. :wink:

 

[comtec]

Thanks to the OP (SilverStone05)

I can't believe i have missed this thread. I am getting ready to order these for my car. Most of the posts on the LED's i have seen were for the pre-02 car and i didn't know if every bulb was the same. Plus i see more options on where to buy here.

Did anyone else notice less light with the 9 LED festoons? Maybe it is because the more bulbs you add to the festoon the less voltage each bulb receives. If each bulb was a 2v LED then 6 would be 12v. Any more and each bulbs voltage would be reduced. (not saying they are 2v, just a example)

 

[demigod]

Thanks to the OP (SilverStone05)

I can't believe i have missed this thread. I am getting ready to order these for my car. Most of the posts on the LED's i have seen were for the pre-02 car and i didn't know if every bulb was the same. Plus i see more options on where to buy here.

Did anyone else notice less light with the 9 LED festoons? Maybe it is because the more bulbs you add to the festoon the less voltage each bulb receives. If each bulb was a 2v LED then 6 would be 12v. Any more and each bulbs voltage would be reduced. (not saying they are 2v, just a example)

You might want to take a look at this thread also..

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71851&highlight=LED+flicker

 

[SOURCE 1]

Can anyone tell me the exact bulbs I need for a 95 targa?

 

[comtec]

You might want to take a look at this thread also..

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71851&highlight=LED+flicker

Thanks, yes i saw that and i won't be purchasing from them.

From a prior post of mine.

LED's should last alot longer than the incandescent bulbs that you replaced unless you use a cheap one. If the resistor value is not optimized for the operating voltage you will overdrive the LED, reducing it's lifespan. Most quality LED's have a lifespan of 60,000-100,000 hours or 20x that of an incandescent.

 

[Malibu Rapper]

Thanks, yes i saw that and i won't be purchasing from them.

From a prior post of mine.

The problem does not look like it's a manufacturing issue but more because of heat. Apparently, LEDs cannot take a good heating. I know with my parking bulbs and interior bulbs, I have not had a failure yet. I have a 95 so my bulbs aren't really subjected to much heat. I had the PIAA 4 LED bulbs as well and they are dimmer, bluer, and I did have one of those fail however. I am running the superbrightleds currently.

The bulb in the 02+ headlights sits at the top of the assembly and is also inside of the assembly taking the full brunt of the built up heat. Not sure how hot it gets there but that seems to be the most commonly failing bulb.

 

[Malibu Rapper]

I just did a quick search for the operating temperature of an LED and it turns out that they are designed to run between 35 and 45 degrees celsius (95 - 113 degrees fahrenheit). I can imagine that even sitting under a hot sun in the headlamp assembly for a few hours would put the LEDs into the danger zone.

See this link. It looks like if you can reduce the amount of current going into the LED once it is at a high temperature, you can extend the life of the LED.

Conclusion
Operating the Based LED lamps at a higher operating temperature than for which it was designed adversely affects the longevity of the LED lamp. However, without extensive life-cycle testing on the Based LED lamp, it is impossible to determine the precise number of hours by which the Based LED lamp's longevity will be reduced.

 

[comtec]

I just did a quick search for the operating temperature of an LED and it turns out that they are designed to run between 35 and 45 degrees celsius (95 - 113 degrees fahrenheit). I can imagine that even sitting under a hot sun in the headlamp assembly for a few hours would put the LEDs into the danger zone.

See this link. It looks like if you can reduce the amount of current going into the LED once it is at a high temperature, you can extend the life of the LED.

The problem is not just with the LED's mounted in the headlight assembly but also the interior and the pre-02 markers.

Yes the temperature does effect the LED. Like other electronic devices you have to take into account the circuit. The circuit is what determines the operating temperature of the bulb. By this i mean the circuit inside the bulb not the car. At higher mA the LED will take less heat but the manufacturer should take this into account when designing the bulb. Especially for a automotive bulb. Most are contained in enclosures. I think the problem is they are trying to get the most light possible from the bulbs which in tern reduces it's temperature capacity. Also the manufacturing and assembly are very important because like most electronic devices, LED's are subject to damage from ESD so the proper facilities and handling are required.

For all i know they may build these bulbs without any resistors at all but i would think that the very least they should be using a current limiting resistor.

Someone should disassemble one of the ones that failed to see.

 

[comtec]

I just saw this on superbrightleds website and it is kind of interesting since the white 6-9 LED's are what everyone seems to buy.

To use leds for 12 Volt applications you must simply connect a resistor in series with the led or leds. The resistor will drop the excess voltage and limit the current. See the Forward Voltage spec on the spec sheets (click the LED pert numbers on the main LED page) for typical and maximum forward voltage, they're not all the same. Use a 1/8th watt or larger resistor soldered to the anode of the led and connect the +12 to the resistor. The chart below shows you the forward current for each color led with a single led in series with a 470 ohm resistor connected to 12 VDC. The current (and led brightness) will be slightly higher when the vehicle's engine is running because the battery charging system keeps the voltage up at around 13~14 volts. You can connect up to 4 red, orange, or yellow leds in series with each other and one resistor to power with 12 volts. The value of the current resistor must be lowered, depending on how many leds are in series. A maximum of 3 of the other colors can be in series across 12 volts, because of their higher forward voltage requirement.

LED COLOR RESISTOR - Ohms CURRENT @ 12 VDC
WHITE 470 18ma
BLUE 470 18ma
GREEN 470 18ma
AQUA 470 18ma
RED 470 20ma
YELLOW 470 20ma
ORANGE 470 21ma

 

[Malibu Rapper]

The problem is not just with the LED's mounted in the headlight assembly but also the interior and the pre-02 markers.

Yeah I read through the thread and some people had bulb failures on the other bulbs. Heat cannot be ruled out of those apps either, 113 degrees F is not hard to exceed with a car left out in sunlight. Interior temps can exceed that number quite easily on a hot day. One guy had a trunk bulb burn out, guess what car has a hot trunk? But the bulbs fail at an extremely high rate in the headlights and that high rate must be attributed to the heat.

The superbrightleds website indicates that these bulbs can operate up to 85C. But probably not enough testing has been done to see what the degradation in output and longevity is like as it gets hotter.

Most are contained in enclosures. I think the problem is they are trying to get the most light possible from the bulbs which in tern reduces it's temperature capacity. Also the manufacturing and assembly are very important because like most electronic devices, LED's are subject to damage from ESD so the proper facilities and handling are required.

For all i know they may build these bulbs without any resistors at all but i would think that the very least they should be using a current limiting resistor.

They are absolutely manufacturered with resistors. These bulbs would burn out in a split second if they were not. You can see the resistors in the bulb housing. I haven't decoded the value yet but someone could easily do so just by looking at the bulb.

 

[SilverStone05]

Yea....In hindsight I should have waited a bit before posting this thread. I wonder if we find a different source for LED's the problem will be solved with the WLEDS in the headlight housing. Right now, both of mine are out....again.

 

[comtec]

Yea....In hindsight I should have waited a bit before posting this thread. I wonder if we find a different source for LED's the problem will be solved with the WLEDS in the headlight housing. Right now, both of mine are out....again.

No big deal, we'll find something. Did you get the silverstars and how do they look with the HID's?

I am thinking about going with the new HIR bulbs for the high beams. They are supposed to be one of the brightest bulbs (non HID) that you can get but use less energy.

 

[Malibu Rapper]

Yea....In hindsight I should have waited a bit before posting this thread. I wonder if we find a different source for LED's the problem will be solved with the WLEDS in the headlight housing. Right now, both of mine are out....again.

If someone can find LED bulbs made with LEDs that have a higher operating temp most of these issues should be solved.

The Lumiled Luxeon K2 LEDs can operate at 185 degrees C. The other Luxeon bulbs also can operate at fairly high temperatures. So if we can find a bulb that incorporates a Luxeon LED we might be good. Luxeon LEDs are a tad on the expensive side although prices have dropped quite a bit. The are equivalents from other manufacturers like Nichia. Not only will the bulbs operate at a higher temp, but they are also lot brighter.

 

[comtec]

I found some LED's from a large bulb manufacturer so i purchased them to see if they are any better. Funny thing is I found them at a major electronic parts supplier that i sometimes order from (they ship fast and have excellent customer service + quantity discounts) . If they don't work i am just out $30 so no big deal. If they do then it helps the community. The wedge bulb is not made the same as the WLED that you guys have been using. The ones i purchased are single LED bulbs instead of the multi-LED design. The festoon's are Dual LED's.



WLED-W6------White------19~39mA----9300mcd (brightness)----35 degree pattern

New single--Ultra white----30 mA--11000mcd (brightness)--30 degree pattern




No specs for the 3022W9 but here is the 3022W4 and the 4410W9 for comparison.



4410-W9------White------9~14.8 mA----5800mcd (brightness)---30 degree pattern
3022W4-------White------9~14.8 mA----5800mcd (brightness)---30 degree pattern

New Dual-Ultra white--unsure mA----5500mcd (brightness)-60 degree pattern



I'll let you know how it goes :wink: .

 

[acura92nsx]

sweet! Thanks for the tip.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I found some LED's from a large bulb manufacturer so i purchased them to see if they are any better. Funny thing is I found them at a major electronic parts supplier that i sometimes order from (they ship fast and have excellent customer service + quantity discounts) . If they don't work i am just out $30 so no big deal. If they do then it helps the community. The wedge bulb is not made the same as the WLED that you guys have been using. The ones i purchased are single LED bulbs instead of the multi-LED design. The festoon's are Dual LED's.



WLED-W6------White------19~39mA----9300mcd (brightness)----35 degree pattern

New single--Ultra white----30 mA--11000mcd (brightness)--30 degree pattern




No specs for the 3022W9 but here is the 3022W4 and the 4410W9 for comparison.



4410-W9------White------9~14.8 mA----5800mcd (brightness)---30 degree pattern
3022W4-------White------9~14.8 mA----5800mcd (brightness)---30 degree pattern

New Dual-Ultra white--unsure mA----5500mcd (brightness)-60 degree pattern



I'll let you know how it goes :wink: .

Mike, mine are out AGAIN. Can you get an extra set of these for me please? I would be glad to paypal you what you want.

 

[I1O101I]

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/redf1nsx/NSXXX/photo?authkey=OixnwmXI8uw#5058993775288327138"><img src="http://lh3.google.com/redf1nsx/RjUoCPD5G-I/AAAAAAAAAZc/bGgasGuXq6Q/s800/DSC00240.JPG" /></a>

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Those are HOT!!!!

Chris NSX 02+ conversion. when I get my 2nd nsx I will be hacking up my car with an 02 conversion just like chris, 2nd time around will be alot faster.

More here
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87093

Bryan

 

[brandonsan]

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/redf1nsx/NSXXX/photo?authkey=OixnwmXI8uw#5058993775288327138"><img src="http://lh3.google.com/redf1nsx/RjUoCPD5G-I/AAAAAAAAAZc/bGgasGuXq6Q/s800/DSC00240.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/redf1nsx/NSXXX/photo?authkey=OixnwmXI8uw#5075285461343604578"><img src="http://lh3.google.com/redf1nsx/Rm8JPLEXD2I/AAAAAAAAAjc/kCYx89eEoe0/s800/DSC00533.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/redf1nsx/NSXXX/photo?authkey=OixnwmXI8uw#5058993770993359826"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/redf1nsx/RjUoB_D5G9I/AAAAAAAAAZU/2eYNDC039a4/s800/DSC00237.JPG" /></a>

Those are HOT!!!!

Chris NSX 02+ conversion. when I get my 2nd nsx I will be hacking up my car with an 02 conversion just like chris, 2nd time around will be alot faster.

More here
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87093

Bryan

Bryan,

I agree this BY FAR the hottest mod you can do to your headlights. I'm not messing around with bulbs so I am going to have this done in the near future.