How good is the NSX? really.

[TURBO2GO]

I am making this thread with sincere hopes that the replies will come from guys that know what they are seriously talking about, in other words have LOTS of real competition and track experience, and not a bunch of emotionally charged replies or financially motivated replies from vendors. I want honesty, from an unbiased, experienced viewpoint. That is why this thread is not in general.

How good is an NSX as far as performance these days? The design is 15 years old. The stock engine is anemic in comparison to other modern cars. There exist oiling issues. The stock brakes and suspension are just OK. The chassis on the newer (hence targa) models flexes to a degree. It is difficult to put a proper cage in without really ripping the car apart.

I had a long talk on the phone with john@microsoft and he is a guy that has spent years RACING his NSX. So he is familiar with a lot of this shit. The limitations.

On the plus side, this car is all aluminum. It is light. Even by modern car standards, it is very lightweight. It has an excellent seating position, great view, is low to the ground.

Yes you can modify the car, but John made a great point: When it comes to real performance, the days of "tinkering" are over. A factory effort with the kind of technology available is just far superior. The DIY guy is really playing more than he is making a real difference.

So by the time you get an NSX to be a real machine, you blow a ton of money. I wonder how Kip feels about an NSX chassis. For this same money, what can you buy? A GT3 seems like quite an advanced automobile these days.

So how good is the NSX really? has its time come and gone for it being competitive on the track? It certainly is cool and rare but is it just too old a design? will the new NSX come out and just spank a highly moddded current NSX that cost more money to modify?

I am starting this thread, sincerely hoping that guys like John, Kip, Shad, Billy can chime in. Just a real honest discussion with all your valuable opinions.

 

[CL65 Captain]

I am making this thread with sincere hopes that the replies will come from guys that know what they are seriously talking about, in other words have LOTS of real competition and track experience, and not a bunch of emotionally charged replies or financially motivated replies from vendors. I want honesty, from an unbiased, experienced viewpoint. That is why this thread is not in general.

How good is an NSX as far as performance these days? The design is 15 years old. The stock engine is anemic in comparison to other modern cars. There exist oiling issues. The stock brakes and suspension are just OK. The chassis on the newer (hence targa) models flexes to a degree. It is difficult to put a proper cage in without really ripping the car apart.

I had a long talk on the phone with john@microsoft and he is a guy that has spent years RACING his NSX. So he is familiar with a lot of this shit. The limitations.

On the plus side, this car is all aluminum. It is light. Even by modern car standards, it is very lightweight. It has an excellent seating position, great view, is low to the ground.

Yes you can modify the car, but John made a great point: When it comes to real performance, the days of "tinkering" are over. A factory effort with the kind of technology available is just far superior. The DIY guy is really playing more than he is making a real difference.

So by the time you get an NSX to be a real machine, you blow a ton of money. I wonder how Kip feels about an NSX chassis. For this same money, what can you buy? A GT3 seems like quite an advanced automobile these days.

So how good is the NSX really? has its time come and gone for it being competitive on the track? It certainly is cool and rare but is it just too old a design? will the new NSX come out and just spank a highly moddded current NSX that cost more money to modify?

I am starting this thread, sincerely hoping that guys like John, Kip, Shad, Billy can chime in. Just a real honest discussion with all your valuable opinions.

Dave,

If you look at factory cars that right out of the box are far superior to the NSX in every way there are many. Is the NSX light, yes. Is the Z06 light, yes (3175 lbs). 911 GT3? yes (3100 lb). Let's face it, the NSX was cutting edge in the 90s. 2000? no. 2010? no. The other manufactures, didn't just pass Honda, but blew right past them. The truth is the NSX is a good track car, is it a great track car? Nope.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Dave,

If you look at factory cars that right out of the box are far superior to the NSX in every way there are many. Is the NSX light, yes. Is the Z06 light, yes (3175 lbs). 911 GT3? yes (3100 lb). Let's face it, the NSX was cutting edge in the 90s. 2000? no. 2010? no. The other manufactures, didn't just pass Honda, but blew right past them. The truth is the NSX is a good track car, is it a great track car? Nope.

Why does FXMD run an NSX? What about kip? we are talking big dollar projects. Why not just buy something else. Why put all this money in something that is outdated?

 

[pgilliam1]

I was dissappointed in the stock NSX braking and acceleration, but the handling was terrific. The NSX made me be a better driver because when it gets loose it's less forgiving than the BMW's I was used to.
The NSX acceleration and braking doesn't rate with the Porsche or the Corvette C5/6 Z's on the track, but I think (given similiar rubber) the handling does.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

They all spent the money fully awared of that they could have spent less money on a diff. car/chassis and get even better result...

Same idea of people races their civic, 944, miata... Just to prove something.

Back to your question, nsx had never been the best platform for privateer racing as they weren't built to be a race car, in any specific class.

I believed the general consensus is that nsx is not a good platform for a single minded built race car.


For track day and time attack, it seems like the car is doing awfully good. I had never intended to put more hp on my car until recently, that's after tracking my car at the same track for 6 yrs. I was never very active on track days but then I had never being dusted by better and faster cars until recently. They all have hoosiers and some sort of expensive bling suspensions and tons more power.

I guess the real question is, how good are you??:biggrin:

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

The real question should be "How good of a driver are you?" Really, someone like Kip will surely lap me in a miata (with street tires). That's why I'm investing in racing school this season.

One's skill and risk level is not measured in the amount of horsepower, but by the size of one's gonads. Deep pockets & an understanding wife/gf also helps.

BTW- the NSX is also really good at the track IMO.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Dave..... why do FXMD and Kip use the NSX? Probably because it lets them be unique and lets them stand out and be noticed, not because it's a better platform. Why are there so many Vettes and 911 variants on the track? Because they make good platforms.

 

[snakey]

Ive had 3 Vipers..A vette and the nsx..Still have the nsx and one viper..


I dont know how else to say it other than the feel. my nsx is a 1991 and the feel is amazing. I feel very connected to the road. Much more so than the viper or vette..

Would my 500 hp srt10 viper spank my 270 HP nsx on a road course stock for stock..Oh yea it would..

Would my 350 Hp C5 beat my 270 HP nsx on a road course..I think I would be faster in the nsx by a lil bit...

But when it all comes down to it the nsx is just a very easy car to drive at the limit..has near perfect seating posistion and visibility and above all else..

A nsx looks more exotic than a random vette or random porshe..And maybe a smidge more exotic looking than the viper..especially the profile..

You can make any car very fast...haveing a fast track car nsx..Well thats a lil more special..Your gonna have the koolest car their unless a Ferrari/lambo shows up..

I belieave that after all the years thats why people still choose the nsx to track...

OHH...My 1991 nsx was only 2900 pounds..that is very light..About 200 pounds lighter than a C6Z06 or porshe..400 pounds lighter than a viper..

This is also a reason I belieave she's still wanted by many

 

[CL65 Captain]

But when it all comes down to it the nsx is just a very easy car to drive at the limit...

Going have to disagree on that point.

Maybe because you haven't driven one at the limit. Is the NSX easy to drive fast? Yes. Is it easy to drive at/near the limit.... hell no. Ever spin one on the track? Ah, been there and done that A LOT. Hell both The Stig and Richard Hammond spun the NSX-R. It is not a easy car to drive at the limits, because when you cross over them it will bite you and quick.

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The truth is that being mid-engine has it's advantages and disadvantages.... there is a lot of weight over the rear wheels which allows getting on the power on track out sooner, it also concentrates weight in the middle which is also good and bad. Ever watch a figure skater when they do their spins? When they bring their hands in close, they spin faster. The NSX does that too. Ever drive a 911TT with PSMS? That car is easy to drive at the limits, with Herr Computer watching your back and AWD. The NSX? First thing you do at the track is TC off, because it sucks. No small Japanese man in the trunk with a laptop monitoring yaw rates and wheel spin adjusting the ABS, power and diff at each wheel independently like a EVO X.... no, not for us.

The truth of the matter is there are a lot more modern cars that are A LOT easier to drive at the limits than the NSX. GT-R for example can be driven extremely fast by a 16 year old who stole it out of Dad's garage. Is that a "driver's" car, no but it does go like stink with out having to have a great deal of skill.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Dave..... why do FXMD and Kip use the NSX? Probably because it lets them be unique and lets them stand out and be noticed, not because it's a better platform.

Really? Seems like a lot of work to do just for that. These guys are practically rebuilding the car. I have read Kip complain (and I am sure factor X has faced the same) that compared to who he runs against, he is on a shoestring budget. If that is the case, why make it even harder on yourself by starting with an old platform that costs a lot to mod. You have to redo all of it. Ground up. Strip it, fix the chassis, fix the drivetrain, fix the body to hold a lot more rubber, rebuild the whole engine, fix the oiling system, rebuild the brake systen, then make a bunch of one-off parts because no one else makes an NSX. How many people are there like Shad that can really build a race car out of an NSX?

I am wondering if all these projects started out on a small scale and just grew out of control. That had better planning been done, another platform would have been chosen to begin with.

 

[FXMDBilly]

It depends on a lot of things. Are you referring to the car in it's 1991 specs with 205/225 wheels and tires? Are you referring to what you can fit under the stock fenders (235/275)? Are you referring to what you can fit under a widebody?

The performance of hte 205/225 equipped cars is not up to par by todays standards. Throwing a 215-235 front and 265-275 rear tires makes the NSX 'current' from a tire width relative to body weight standpoint.

As far as weight goes. I removed the spare tire, added a STMPO aluminum rear bumper, Downforce carbon side vents (actually a big weight reduction) and the Downforce NSX-R wing (another big weight reduction) and my car weighs 2,820lbs with a touch-screen navigation, subwoofer, amp, stock seats, a/c, and full interior. This is a good 2-300lbs lighter than a F430 Scuderia (with no radio), GT3, and many other modern cars.

The N/A power is not comparable to a GT3, F430, Z06, and a S2000 is comparable if not quicker with similarly light modifications on track. But this can be fixed with forced induction -superchargers or turbos.

BUT, the chassis is marvelous. I'm not a big fan of power-steering equipped cars since I havn't tracked any well-sorted cars, most of them have been stock. Also for track use, the coupes have much greater chassis stiffness. The unsprung weight, handling characteristics, and suspension dynamics of the NSX is extremely impressive to be this good 15 years later. With a competitive tire size (235/275) the NSX's chassis can perform extremely well.

The chassis is also takes additional power VERY well. How good is the chassis? If you think about it, our FX750 NSX had STOCK suspension geometry, control arms, pickup points, and shock mounting points. Realistically it was a well sorted stock chassis (obviously gutted) with racing slicks, a good set of coilovers, and was turning times as fast as a Daytona Prototype or ALMS GT2 cars -which are all heavily modified tube-frame cars, or at least have different subframes and pickup points from stock. IMO this speaks worlds of the stock car's suspension geometry and chassis to be able to handle 800hp, racing slicks, and be able to handle and turn times as fast as $300-750K racecars.

Having driven GT3s (still one of my favorite track cars), 911 Turbos, F430s (also fantastic on track), every year GTR from R32-35, M3's, you name it, I still think the NSX's chassis is marvelous. Sure it dosn't have power steering, but if anything I would call that being 'more manly' and 'pure' in terms of driving experience. Sure GT3s and said cars have power steering and are physically easier to drive, but the NSX's chassis is a great platform and I might argue, is as good as most of said 'current' cars. After driving all of these cars, I still really enjoy driving the NSX.

I am also far from a fan-boi. I love the NSX, but its not the greatest car ever built. Sure its good and you can call it great, sure I really like mine, but it's just another car. Its quite a good car but it's not my entire life, its not the only good car out there because there are thousands of awesome cars that are fantastic to drive on the track. But I don't think its fair to say it's obsolete or out-dated, and I think that speaks wonders at how good it is by modern standards for being so old.

I've tracked every GTR out there, 360s, F430s, GT3s, 911 Turbos, M3's, EVOs, STIs, S2000s, Corvettes, Mustangs, and many more on a regular basis. After driving all of that, one of my favorite cars that always stuck out in my mind was the first FX500 - 500whp turbo NSX which will wipe the floor with F430s, Gallardos, GT3s, etc... Sure the power isn't fair, but for relatively little money, the NSXs chassis with that much power is a dream to drive and more than capable. Since then i've always wanted one and was lucky to become an NSX owner 2 years later.

The NSX also has many advantages aerodynamically and from a layout standpoint. It has been a great platform with such high capabilities that FXMD was able to constantly build off of to have one of the fastest Time Attack cars in the country/world. Wait until you see the re-birth of the FX750 to see what I mean.

At the end of the day, I don't think it's fair to criticize the NSX's chassis and say its out of date. Sure its limiting factor is how big of a front tire you can fit, but with a liveable 235/275 tire package and a supercharger or turbo, I would say its more than relevant to anything on the road today.

I honestly don't care to argue this point or to try to convince others of this. Take my comments with a grain of salt and do what you want to do and what suits your needs or happyness. No 1 answer is right for anyone. Take my thoughts for what they are worth, and that there are TONS of great cars out there. But a 500whp Turbo NSX is near the top of my list along with a GT3, F430, 993 Turbo (and Ruf CTR2 that I drove), and many more.

The NSX isn't the greatest car since sliced bread, but it is a great car that can with some modifications, hang with anything out there.


Billy

Edit: Quick and somewhat scrambled together info:

Engine:

-Not too much you can do NA to be competitive with modern supercars
-No torque NA, but rev-happy with modern by today's standard's high 8,000rpm rev limit.
-Needs a Turbo or Supercharger -and with that, is able to be 'current'
-Stock oiling system (the oil pan) is a terrible design and NEEDs a baffle for heavy track use.

Transmission:

-6-speed not as robust as the 5-speed for high HP applications.
-5-speed's US gear ratio is imbalanced with an overly long 2nd, and short 3-4 and 4-5 gear changes. The Japanese gear ratio set is much better.
-Japanese 5-speed's gear ratio's 3rd gear is known to be weak at high power outputs.
-Stock LSD dosn't work too well and should be replaced with a clutch-type unit like OS Giken -which will increase stability of the car and make it easier to drive.
-Shifter's "bolt-action" is world-class and was the benchmark for the Ford GT's shifter feel.

Tire size:

-Definately a weak point with 235/295 being the widest sizes fit under stock fenders. Going any wider, the tire rubs well before full lock which makes the car less practical for a street car.

Brakes:

-I really don't think they are as terrible as everyone says when using aggressive track pads. Either way this is easily solved with a bigger calipers and rotors.
-An ALMS/Prototype quality brake system (Performance Friction) is available for the car which makes the NSX more than capable for absolutely anything.

Chassis/Suspension:

-Strong point (coupe), able to handle TONS of power without ripping the subframe out from under the car, or any other limitations.
-Bumpsteer isn't terrible in the car, suspension geometry and aluminum design is superb.
-Non power steering cars have great feel and is very 'pure' driving experience, very communicative. But a nice power steering system makes cars easier to drive in the modern world. So non power steering can be viewed as a weak point. I'm currently not a fan of PS equipped NSXs.
-Great suspensions available for the car and the NSX's suspension layout, design, feel is current by modern standards IMO.

Ergonomics:

-Not enough head room for tall people.
-Trunk becomes a cooking oven (great for pizza delivery)
-Trunk isn't that big
-Forward view out of the car is superb
-Seating position is awesome
-Pedals are very good for a Japanese car

 

[Coz]

Nicely said Billy.

 

[VegasSpeed]

Billy is a very good person to answer this one. I remember having this same chat with him several months ago. He will say that Porsches and M3s are great cars to drive on tracks as well. I think a nice Porsche Cayman S is a newer version of the NSX. It is as light as one but has the modern features of the Millenium. I have only driven one on the street and it is mild but I have seen stock Caymans kick ass on the track where I live.

I agree that most NSX owners are blinded a little by their fandom of the car. The reality is the car is out of date in some ways by modern cars. The engine was great in the early 90s but by 1997 and on and should have bumped to a V8 or a stock supercharged setup.

I haven't done a great amount of tracking but I have taken my NSX and my BMW 335i to Spring Mountain Raceway. What I can say is the NSX handles very well by comparison but the engine in the 335i(plus the 6 speed gearbox) beats a supercharged NSX on straights. There is more torque on downshifts for the BMW where second gear drops you too far into the bottom of the tach to get any real power. Billy touched on that briefly. The gears need to be shortened some on 1st and 2nd. It sure would help some I think for 5 speed gearbox sets.

In all honesty, the more I visit the track the more I think Porsches make great track cars. They are expensive to maintain is the downside.

 

[CL65 Captain]

I think a nice Porsche Cayman S is a newer version of the NSX. It is as light as one but has the modern features of the Millenium. I have only driven one on the street and it is mild but I have seen stock Caymans kick ass on the track where I live.

You know what's funny. I drove a modded 400hp Cayman S on the track and the owner said "this is the way it should have come from the factory." Where have I heard that before? :biggrin:

And the thing I always disliked about the NSX is all the "little" things it's missing like heated seats, factory NAV & non Blose stereo (w/o cassette), light under the front hood, light in the engine bay, better than crappy light in the trunk, better than crappy cup holders, and on and on. I know this adds weight, but really how much could a wire and light bulb weigh, really? Guess I'm going to have to add that to my do list.

 

[FXMDBilly]

I haven't done a great amount of tracking but I have taken my NSX and my BMW 335i to Spring Mountain Raceway. What I can say is the NSX handles very well by comparison but the engine in the 335i(plus the 6 speed gearbox) beats a supercharged NSX on straights. There is more torque on downshifts for the BMW where second gear drops you too far into the bottom of the tach to get any real power. Billy touched on that briefly. The gears need to be shortened some on 1st and 2nd. It sure would help some I think for 5 speed gearbox sets.

I do recall your NSX being faster in a straight line than your 335i

If you're referring to the overly long 2nd gear, I would agree the 335i would probably out-accelerate your NSX from a low-speed hairpin, but above 5,000rpm in any gear, your NSX's lighter weight (as we tested) is faster on the straights. You can fix this gear problem with japanese gear sets and/or a 4.40 final drive.

And the thing I always disliked about the NSX is all the "little" things it's missing like heated seats, factory NAV & non Blose stereo (w/o cassette), light under the front hood, light in the engine bay, better than crappy light in the trunk, better than crappy cup holders, and on and on. I know this adds weight, but really how much could a wire and light bulb weigh, really? Guess I'm going to have to add that to my do list.

I'm slowly changing all those out - have a touch-screen navigation/DVD player, subwoofer, amp, awesome speakers, don't care much for heated seats (GT3s and F430 Scuderias dont have them), and yet my car still weighs a few hundred pounds less than said cars with more modern creature-comforts.

 

[2slow2speed]

So how good is the NSX really? has its time come and gone for it being competitive on the track? It certainly is cool and rare but is it just too old a design? will the new NSX come out and just spank a highly moddded current NSX that cost more money to modify?

I am starting this thread, sincerely hoping that guys like John, Kip, Shad, Billy can chime in. Just a real honest discussion with all your valuable opinions.

Not really sure what exactly this thread is trying to accomplish ?

Isn't this similar in some ways to asking people why they still want to buy/own a NSX given that there are so many other options out there? but taking it to the next level instead of street driving to tracking or racing?

What exactly are you trying to learn from this thread?

Are you trying to decide wether or not to keep the NSX as a track car?

Are you planning to turn your NSX into a race car?

Are you trying to understand other people's method to their madness of why they still track/race the NSX or even own a NSX?

Is the goal to have a central repository of all the knowledgebase of everything that has to do with tracking/racing a NSX?

 

[RSO 34]

Not really sure what exactly this thread is trying to accomplish ?

+1

Every time I say I am not going to respond to Turbo (and I do like him so this is not a personal attack), I get pulled back in........

I find topics like this both confusing and amusing. What do you mean by "competitive" on the track? If you are talking about racing, you can always find a faster/better track car. If you are talking about HPDE and using the word "competitive", I stand by my usual "rant" about the point of HPDE being "missed" and thereby possibly resulting in a misguided HPDE driver potentially becoming a danger on the track.

Just my opinion but if you are referencing the NSX as an HPDE track car then your mindset is all wrong. If you want to actually race a car get something other than an NSX unless you are in the "rare" class of enthusiasts such as Billy willing to build something that is not really a "true" NSX any longer.

Buy a spec miata, get a competition license, cut your teeth in regional SCCA, buy a Radical, emerge from bankruptcy, buy a GT2, spend your kids' college funds, etc, etc.

And, again, I say this as a friend, I always "take issue" with these types of threads you start based upon your inexperience on the track (note: I intentionally used the word track "inexperience" rather than track "experience" since the amount of days you have done in HPDE, imho, do not justify a search for a faster track car.)

 

[Mac Attack]

Why does FXMD run an NSX? What about kip? we are talking big dollar projects. Why not just buy something else. Why put all this money in something that is outdated?

Probably just to be different.

If we all did the same thing life would be boring.

There is a lot of personal satisfaction in taking an old platform, combining it with well-thought out modifications, adding a good driver, and being competitive. Isn't it about having fun anyways?

Dave

 

[Coz]

Funny thing is I look at all the money, time and effort I've put into my NSX to make it what it is and I've asked myself several times has it been worth it. I have a little over at 50,000.00 in my car presently doing 75% of the work myself (no labor charges) and I'm about done with it the way I want it.

I look back and consider the other cars I could have had for this 50 grand that would have been great street and track cars for both.

Corvette, naw, they are a dime a dozen. I thought about maybe a Z06 for awhile, but it's just another vette, just faster. Porsche, it would take more than 50 grand to have a Porsche that equals what I have now. Besides, I've had 8 of them over the years. Ferrari or Lamborghini, owned a few of them along the way, can't afford the maintenance or parts on them. Viper, nice, but not my style or taste.

So I bought my first NSX 5 years ago. In the 3 NSX's I have, I've put over 86,000 combined miles on them without many problems or costs other than the mods I'm doing to my current WideBody. 1 was a SC'd car and I put 42,000 miles on and the other one my wife put 32,000 miles on. Cost for the combined 80,000 miles, maybe 5 grand in maintenance and parts. Say that about many other high line excotic's.

I drive my NSX's knowing I have something different and in my mind special since I don't see them everywhere else on a daily basis. I walk out in the garage everyday and I look at my NSX and it still makes me smile. I've never had anyone walk up to me and say, gee, why are you driving such an outdated, under-powered car yet...In fact, anyone that does say anything, they always say how much they love the style, look of the car, that's it's timeless and they've always wanted one, or just give the thumbs up on the road as we pass by each other.

I'm very happy with the NSX and at this point have what I want for the money I could afford to spend.

Now, if money was no object, I would be driving a Saleen 7...but until the day ever comes and I win the lottery, my NSX makes me as happy as can be....

 

[v8killer]

Funny thing is I look at all the money, time and effort I've put into my NSX to make it what it is and I've asked myself several times has it been worth it. I have a little over at 50,000.00 in my car presently and I am about done with it the way I want it.

I look back and consider the other cars I could have had for this 50 grand that would have been great street and track cars for both.

Corvette, naw, they are a dime a dozen. I thought about maybe a Z06 for awhile, but it's just another vette, just faster. Porsche, it would take more than 50 grand to have a Porsche that equals what I have now. Besides, I've had 8 of them over the years. Ferrari or Lamborghini, owned a few of them along the way, can't afford the maintenance or parts on them. Viper, nice, but not my style or taste.

So I bought my first NSX 5 years ago. In the 3 NSX's I have, I've put over 86,000 combined miles on them without many problems or costs other than the mods I'm doing to my current WideBody. 1 was a SC'd car and I put 42,000 miles on and the other one my wife put 32,000 miles on. Cost for the combined 80,000 miles, maybe 5 grand in maintenance and parts. Say that about many other high line excotic's.

I drive my NSX's knowing I have something different and in my mind special since I don't see them everywhere else on a daily basis. I walk out in the garage everyday and I look at my NSX and it still makes me smile. I've never had anyone walk up to me and say, gee, why are you driving such an outdated, under-powered car yet...In fact, anyone that does say anything, they always say how much they love the style, look of the car, that's it's timeless and they've always wanted one, or just give the thumbs up on the road as we pass by each other.

I'm very happy with the NSX and at this point have what I want for the money I could afford to spend.

Now, if money was no object, I would be driving a Saleen 7...but until the day ever comes and I win the lottery, my NSX makes me as happy as can be....

Well said. I feel the same way about mine.

 

[TURBO2GO]

+1

Every time I say I am not going to respond to Turbo (and I do like him so this is not a personal attack), I get pulled back in........

LOL....

Allright Bob... since you want to know the whole story. I called John to ask him about caging my NSX. Why? because even if I continue with DE's, I am still putting my car on the track and going fast. Even if I never make a mistake, it doesn't mean someone else won't. Because as much as I like this hobby, I never want to lose a limb or die for it. You wouldn't go rock climbing or skydiving without proper gear, why would you do it on a racetrack.

Basically John shot down all the pre-built cage stuff. He wisely told me about what it takes to build a proper safety system in the NSX. He also made the prediction that as I get more into it, I may well get tired of DE's. Something I didn't think of. Then talking to Biobanker, he told me how tired he got of running the same track over and over (Tremblant).

John was trying to give me proper guidance, in saying "look, don't go down that road of spending your way into a hole with an NSX. Having a vision and making a plan, is a wise thing to do." So I am asking questions. My question here isn't to get a "second opinion" about what John said. I believe he is correct about this car's limitations and he is someone that has at least really raced an NSX.

I am also not asking to make my car faster for DE's, as you eluded to, and yes, that would be the wrong attitude. This thread isn't about me at this point, as my plan is to just continue with a school like barber and slowly learn and get better. The question is looking far down the road, what might I be doing? is it wise for me to invest any more money in the NSX or to run it on tracks at all even after more experience? I think now that I will be happy with 5 DE events a year, but will I? This is how it all starts, right? I count days now til the warm weather starts and I can go back to driving on a track.

The safety issue is what triggered that conversation. I understand people have differing opinions but man I would like to at least have a Hans when I am flying down a straight at 140. That is fast enough to kill you. Even if you have done 20 days of pro race school, are careful, don't go 10/10ths, etc. Yeah I know the whole "everything in life is a risk you just do the best you can", but I can't even run a Hans, because I have nothing to attach it to. A harness bar offers a questionable level of safety improvement... a cage is MAJOR work. If I do go and get a proper cage, then I have essentially gone down a different road with my NSX. Then suspension, then this, then that, then next thing I know in 5 years I am where Kip, Billy, and John are at now. Will I look back and say "I should have done XYZ instead?" .

There is little investment in me posting a thread and I knew full well I may get the exact reaction of "go learn more first". Please notice that I purposely kept this out of the general section and said I DO NOT want everyone to start chiming in who has more opinion than experience. I am not trying to start another NSX vs Other crap thread. I expected maybe 5 good knowledgable replies on this thread from guys that have done it to see if there is something about the NSX they see that I do not see. So far, it sounds like not really.... "unique and different" is about all. If that really is the case, that sways me even more towards just keeping the NSX as a street car and figuring out what I want to do at the track. That means no bushings, no suspension, no harness bar, and possibly no more events in this car. It's a hard decision to make, because I love this car when I am on the track. My mind says one thing and my heart says another.

 

[Coz]

Really the bottom line Turbo2go is you have to do what you think best for you.

What is the point of starting your learning curve that will take many seasons to perfect in a car you are worried about crashing or getting hurt in ?

If all your concerned about is learning, then start with something you can trash around and not worry about any damages or repairs that are sure to follow.

If I wanted a full blown race car, I would probably build a S2000 with a SC or turbo.

The S2000's are cheap, a great plattform for a full race car, parts are cheaper and easier to come by, strip it out, put a cage in it, put a good suspension under it, some wide ass tires on it, and then go out there and go as fast as you can without taking yourself or anyone else out in the process.
You'll probably spend 30 grand, if that.

I wanted a car that I could drive on the street everyday, take to the track with and be comfortable with. I found the NSX was that car.

I don't think the day will come for quite some time, if ever, that I can say I can drive faster than the car will allow me to for the money I spent with the NSX.

At some point, I may put a roll cage in mine....just depends on how fast I become with it on the track as time goes by

 

[Coz]

You bet...:biggrin:

Well said. I feel the same way about mine.

 

[Hrant]

+1

Every time I say I am not going to respond to Turbo (and I do like him so this is not a personal attack), I get pulled back in........

+2 and ROTFWL

The short and sweet answer Dave is: It is pretty good because it is a balanced car and still competitive with some relatively affordable aftermarket add ons. But the title of your question is misleading given where you are taking this topic.

Regarding your reference to track cars like what Kip, Billy, John, Coz, Igor, etc. have, realistically Dave, you are not in that league in terms of mindset (not referencing to finances) based on all your posts thus far; you "do not appear" to fit the bill of a diehard racer/tracker given your propensity to be risk averse and to overanalyze into paralysis. And I say this with a collegiate perspective.

Lastly, you have to appreciate that irrespective of the two camps - diehard trackers who will chime that nothing is good enough unless done to some FIA specs vs. those occasional weekend warriors at HPDE who have tinkered with mild compromises and happy with their results precisely because they don't intend to make it a full race car. There is a happy medium/balance where you can track the car and also enjoy it in street driving.

Last I checked, the happy medium - who can still pimp their rides on the streets, outnumbered the true diehard trackers :wink:

YM-Will-V

 

[Coz]

My thoughts exactly Hrant, well said.

You know another thing, I love driving my NSX on the track, but I don't do a lot of full out wheel to wheel with it.
That's a risk I don't really want to take with my car by depending on others to keep their cars under control.
I don't want to trash my car, I like it to much

I built my car for street driving and to be somewhat competitive in TA's where it's just me, my car, the clock and focusing on keeping everything in it's prospective balance.
I still have my A/C, stereo and interior intact

[QUOTE=Hrant;1281641
There is a happy medium/balance where you can track the car and also enjoy it in street driving.