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WP Pro Big Brake Kit | Why get Stoptech or Brembo?

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Depends... according to that chart:

Stoptech F/R-> 63.74%
OEM 91-96 ---> 61.59%
OEM 97-05 ---> 54.02%
2002 Type R--> 55..24%
Brembo --> 50.00%

So.... according to that table a Stoptech F/R is too front biased for a stock 97+ or a 2002 Type R :rolleyes:

It also really depends on tire size, and suspension setup what is the correct bias. Now add brake compound to the mix. :)

So... a Brembo F/R with a more aggressive F compound than R should give a closer to OEM bias. The question is what actually is the bias? You would have to do testing and try several compounds or go to a brake bias adjuster.



Jim, I think you missed my point. When considering BBKs - not comparing to the OEM setups, the Stoptech seems to be the one that has the best bias package (or the least frontal bias) all things being the same - see the footnote in that link.

Assuming people going for BBKs are not just for bling but for some tracking, a bit more front bias than OEM is desired for the NSX. Too much front bias is not good unless you really work the rear suspension to adjust for this. As such, the Stoptech is the one that offers such a balanced option (all relative but at least they claim they "really" tested it for NSX application as opposed of the shelf), plus the Dali 4/2 -RB rotors. Brembo in fact provides the least but for most people this may not be that noticeable - again ceteris paribus.

As for the 97+ figures being off - can't speak to that. But obviously all BBKs seem to push for more front bias.
 
-They don't say what race series they sponsor/have products in, and their website is very vague.
.

Here are a few pics of a RX8 they sponsor in the Dutch Touring Car Championship.

dtccrx8.jpg


dtccrx82.jpg


A pic of a Volkswagen Cup car in the UK

Argggh, Id upload...but my host isnt working :(

Anyways, here is a list of their past/current clients & participated races

Hamann Motorsport
Oettinger Performance
Volkwagen Racing UK
BSR Tuning
MapTun
HP Racing

FIA WRC Grp A
FIA WRC Super 1600
FIA WRC Super 2000
Canadian Touring Car Championship
Macau Grand Prix
D1GP
China Touring Car Championship
Cross China Rally
Dakar-Paris Rally
BTCC
ALMS
Swedish Touring Car Championship
Dutch Touring Car Championship
Total 24hrs of Spa
24Hrs Nurburgring
Britcar 24Hrs @ Silverstone
 
enough accusation, will WP sponsor any nsx racers or even track lapper for testing the brake system?

I also agreed that retaining the stock rear calipers for E brake is do-able, for the sake of cost cutting; but then there goes the unsprung weight.

I can't even imagine a company this big as claimed, and they have a hard time showing anyone's testimony if they have a kit specifically built for nsx.

I think the fitment is very attractive for most nsx owners who goes to track.
 
Has any of the kits actually been mounted on a NSX? If so, there must be some photo proof that this has been done. It always irks me when I hear NSX specific, then I get a stock photo of another car with the product in question. E-bay style.

I am not in the boat to condem the product, I just want to see the product on someone's track NSX doing tour duty. If somone like Kip or Billie says it is good, than it is good. That is how you move product on these forums.
 
sounds like a good idea,the vendor with the manufacturers blessing gives a nsx specific kit to a track junkie who also likes to type on prime and is within a geographic area that allows for Billy or shad or Dave or Kip to try the car out at a track day.......hmmmmm.......maybe....Ryneen:smile:
 
Has any of the kits actually been mounted on a NSX? If so, there must be some photo proof that this has been done. It always irks me when I hear NSX specific, then I get a stock photo of another car with the product in question. E-bay style.

I am not in the boat to condem the product, I just want to see the product on someone's track NSX doing tour duty. If somone like Kip or Billie says it is good, than it is good. That is how you move product on these forums.

Josh

I know of one owner who had/has this kit on their NSX. He was selling this kit. I will PM him as I won't disclose his name till he responds to this thread.

=g=
 
Subscribed....oh the drama

 
I don't think that there is drama here. We have a vendor that is offering what looks to potentially be a great product. There is some debate of the validity of the testing results. All of it is of little consequence because we have yet to see a NSX that wears this "NSX specific kit". The lack of a legitimate e-brake also brings into question if this kit is applicable for NSX use.

If you want drama, just turn on CNN and watch as our country shifts toward communism.

This is a legitimate thread with legitimate questions that will or won't be answered in time
 
Has any of the kits actually been mounted on a NSX? If so, there must be some photo proof that this has been done. It always irks me when I hear NSX specific, then I get a stock photo of another car with the product in question. E-bay style.

I am not in the boat to condem the product, I just want to see the product on someone's track NSX doing tour duty. If somone like Kip or Billie says it is good, than it is good. That is how you move product on these forums.

I couldn't agree more, Im the same way when buying a new product. Im in the process of getting the ball rolling to get a set of these on someones car. I, nor WP, has nothing to hide with smoke and mirrors...so I see this as a valid request.

Just remember, you can't always rely on someone elses opinion though. :tongue:

sounds like a good idea,the vendor with the manufacturers blessing gives a nsx specific kit to a track junkie who also likes to type on prime and is within a geographic area that allows for Billy or shad or Dave or Kip to try the car out at a track day.......hmmmmm.......maybe....Ryneen:smile:

Seriously. Its definitely tough being a vendor here but it also helps protect the members.

Back to the drama. BTW, share some of the popcorn.

Haha, I actually like it. Its better than all the drones on the other forums that we are on. You all are actually interested in the true functionality of the product.

Subscribed....oh the drama


I don't think that there is drama here. We have a vendor that is offering what looks to potentially be a great product. There is some debate of the validity of the testing results. All of it is of little consequence because we have yet to see a NSX that wears this "NSX specific kit". The lack of a legitimate e-brake also brings into question if this kit is applicable for NSX use.

If you want drama, just turn on CNN and watch as our country shifts toward communism.

This is a legitimate thread with legitimate questions that will or won't be answered in time

Very true, I shall do my best to answer any/all questions you have. As I mentioned before, no one has anything to hide here. Im not one to back down easily either.
 
Depends... according to that chart:

Stoptech F/R-> 63.74%
OEM 91-96 ---> 61.59%
OEM 97-05 ---> 54.02%
2002 Type R--> 55..24%
Brembo --> 50.00%

So.... according to that table a Stoptech F/R is too front biased for a stock 97+ or a 2002 Type R :rolleyes:

It also really depends on tire size, and suspension setup what is the correct bias. Now add brake compound to the mix. :)

So... a Brembo F/R with a more aggressive F compound than R should give a closer to OEM bias. The question is what actually is the bias? You would have to do testing and try several compounds or go to a brake bias adjuster.
Yes, changing pad compounds front to rear does affect the bias, bite, characteristics of the braking system. Also as you pointed out later, the in-line proportioning valves of the OEM system is another variable, as is brake rotor swept-area and height of the pad (which affects where the pistons are centered in the given rotor diameter).

It appears Stoptech did their homework quite well on the NSX. The bias that Stoptech came up with is very similar to the Brembo F50/Lotus setup that FXMD developed with Titanium Dave - as wells as what Performance Friction calculated from their JGTC NSX, FXMD NSX, and OEM NSX experience. (all of which range from 55-65%).

Performance Friction
PFC calculated the best bias by looking at: front and rear piston size, rotor diameter and width, pad swept area, brake torque of said cars (measured at the wheel), weight distribution, center of gravity, and many more aspects of the stock, FXMD, and JGTC cars to come up with their brake bias.

Because of this development, we run the same aggressive PFC-01 compound pads front and rear on the FXMD NSX, with the stock master cylinder, and no proportioning valve and the setup is EXCELLENT and by far one of the best street or race brake packages i've ever run.

Forged Monoblock Calipers are extremely light, 4 pads per caliper! (multi-pad technology - 1 pad per piston), the largest rotors available on an NSX - 14" front and rear, and it IS a race caliper that's used in ALMS, JGTC, Indy Cars, Daytona Prototypes, etc...

Stoptech
I've never tracked a Stoptech-equipped NSX (but have many 350Zs and other cars) and their motorsports background showcases their ability. Still loosely based off of a Brembo design and fairly heavy but has an improved "bridge" design to increase rigidity. They run these exact brakes in their Grand-Am Cup cars. I would say its a great option to go with.

Rotora
Havn't driven on their setup for the NSX, but won the 25-Hours of Thunderhill on these brakes set up for an E36 M3 -which worked flawlessly and this too says a lot for their abilities. I've never been a fan of Rotora and until they had an influx of $ to develop and engineer a better product, their products were not very good. But now, they are more than acceptable and durable to handle racing abuse at that level and win. The company isn't as involved in racing as Stoptech and the design isn't a generic copy of an existing caliper, but It also might be a good entry level option.

Brembo
F50/Lotus Titanium Dave/FXMD setup - Great bias, but the F50 is a heavy caliper but looks much beefier and adds much needed front bias.
Lotus/Lotus setup - is also good but needs a prop valve, different brake pads F-R, and still might be too much rear bias.
-Both the F50 and Lotus are ~15year old race technology and heavy.

"Indy"
- there is no such thing as an "Brembo Indy" caliper. That's just the name it was given by a certain vendor but Brembo dosn't acknowledge anything is called an "Indy" caliper. It's just a modern 2-pc motorsport caliper that is much lighter than the GT series street calipers. Lightweight, through-bolt (with nut) design makes for a much stiffer and rigid caliper than all of said calipers above which have a bolt that's threaded into the other side of the caliper which makes for a weaker caliper compared to a through-bolt design. (***other than PFC which is a Forged Monoblock)




What's the Front and Rear piston sizes (all) of the WP brake system? If the opportunity presents itself, I wouldn't mind testing a WP-equipped NSX. I also second the vote for Ryneen as he is a very capable driver who is one of the few on this forum who track their car and get the most out of it.
 
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Nice review Billy. Without taking away the OP's thread, it would add value to this discussion if:

(a) You could provide the same details for the Performance Friction BBK ie, the piston sizes, the clamping force, the actual f/r bias; 55-65% is a wide range
(b) The pricing per axle/set with and without e-brake (now we have to specify what type of e-brake too) to determine and compare value for the given performance of each BBK

:wink:
 
Nice review Billy. Without taking away the OP's thread, it would add value to this discussion if:

(a) You could provide the same details for the Performance Friction BBK ie, the piston sizes, the clamping force, the actual f/r bias; 55-65% is a wide range
(b) The pricing per axle/set with and without e-brake (now we have to specify what type of e-brake too) to determine and compare value for the given performance of each BBK

:wink:
Performance Friction Forged Monobloc (Multi-pad Caliper):


All info here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134437



Billy
 
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Hi,

Rotor Size Front: 14" (355mm x 32mm) -largest and widest rotor in an NSX system.
Rotor Size Rear: 14" (355mm x 32mm) - largest and widest rotor in an NSX system.

Billy.. carefull with those bombastic claims, as D2 has one of those off-the-shelf kits with 356x32mm (and even bigger) and even the Racing kits from Project Mu (4 pistons and 4 pads and 6 pistons) also have 32mm wide rotors.... so, even your kit being awesome, there is no innovation at all in those 2 aspects :wink:

Sorry to post one more off-topic post in this thread, but was just to make a note..

Nuno
 
Hi,

Billy.. carefull with those bombastic claims, as D2 has one of those off-the-shelf kits with 356x32mm (and even bigger)
Link to said D2 brake system? (which is very difficult to find anyway so somewhat irrelevant).

With that being said, most brake manufacturers have rotors larger than 355mm (front and/or rear), but none in a complete system for the NSX -that is commonly known, easy to find, or obviously for sale.

and even the Racing kits from Project Mu (4 pistons and 4 pads and 6 pistons) also have 32mm wide rotors.... so, even your kit being awesome, there is no innovation at all in those 2 aspects :wink:

Sorry to post one more off-topic post in this thread, but was just to make a note..

Nuno
But you must ask who came out with it first in professional motorsports :wink: (and I do acknowledge that PMu is involved in top level motorsports)

Oh, and it's far from "My" kit. I didn't design it, I don't make it, nor do I assemble them. I worked with PFC (like I do in a few professional racing series) to give them some resources and data to assist their current inventory of data and experience for them to engineer an NSX street system in addition to their Super GT brake system. Although I was a small part of the effort, it's Performance Friction's brake system.

Please lets stay on topic and direct any PFC brake questions to the above thread.


Billy
 
Hey what are the weight savings if any on this set up total from 97+ OEM? Thanks!
 
I have had booth these and the brembo kit from Titainum Dave and I can say that the brembo's are much nicer and about the same price.
 
Drift 350z
4442974965_fdabbf5412_o.jpg

I saw Mike again today and we were talking about brakes again, so this is still on my radar.

Also, do you offer this same gold color? My NSX is silver and gold was the OEM color on the calipers and I would like to keep that look.

What is the best price you can do for a set on front and rear together? Please price out the various options 4, 6, 8, and 12.

Thanks.
 
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