Would you still want your NSX if it had a modified production engine?

[drmanny3]

Interesting video on NSX Engine. I have seen elements of this video before, however it reminds me of what makes this NSX so special. While I understand why a lot of people wish that the engine were a modified version of a Honda/Acura powerplant such that the price of the car was more affordable, it is this uniqueness that makes it desirable to me. I wonder how many of the current owners would still want their car if the engine were a modified production engine. Add to this the Hybrid aspect as well as the unique 9 speed tranny.

 

[docjohn]

If I'm understanding you correctly would I feel more special because my turbo 6 is a cosworth....only at cars and coffee. When talking turbos HP is HP..I would not care...Na is a totally different story...in that the maker and the sound/rpm would make me pay up for a "special" engine....turbo not so much...imho...

 

[drmanny3]

Hey, isn't feeling special at Cars and Coffee is a big thing? Why do people attend those activities if not to converse and see what is out there, as well as show off what you have. Otherwise people would not primp their rides before showing up. Docjohn show us a picture of your car. The one you are most proud of today.

 

[docjohn]

lol the car I'm most proud of I have not purchased yet...:wink:...Besides painted body parts get more attention than who screwed together the motor:tongue:

 

[powdbyrice]

I'd guess that a large number of owners dont know that Cosworth helped in the design of the engine. Id also guess that they dont know who/what Cosworth is.

How many know/care if its 45, 60, or 90 degree?

While I dont own one, I can say that I wouldn't want an NSX with a modified version of the current V6 thats been in use for the past 10 years.

 

[drmanny3]

I'd guess that a large number of owners dont know that Cosworth helped in the design of the engine. Id also guess that they dont know who/what Cosworth is.

How many know/care if its 45, 60, or 90 degree?

While I dont own one, I can say that I wouldn't want an NSX with a modified version of the current V6 thats been in use for the past 10 years.

‘Other than packaging not sure how much the angle contributes to performance or exhaust sound.

This is the first car I forked over $140,000 in cash to own. One of the reasons I did so was the engine/drivetrain, overall design And the fact that it was a hybrid. Oh and of course the fact that this was a Honda/Acura endeavor.. I admire what Honda has accomplished. Obviously I am a fan

 

[docjohn]

I would consider you more a cheer leader than fan:wink:

 

[drmanny3]

Ha Ha , Go figure In my early years in college I was a cheer leader. Met a lot of girls that way.

 

[docjohn]

the wolf in the hen house...

 

[nsx878]

For me, the fact that Cosworth was involved with designing/building the heads and block was a plus for me. But, I am not a Hondafile purist. I did own a 1984 accord for 2 years that was totaled by hail..... I raced vintage formula cars for 12 years, and I am well aware of Cosworth's historical contribution to the racing world. The Ford Cosworth DFV V8 Formula 1 engine was perhaps the greatest and most successful racing engine built by man.

We know that Honda targeted the Ferrari 458 when building the new NSX. I imagine that as the development process was delayed and delayed, Honda got behind, and brought in Cosworth so they could focus on other things.

I have always felt that the NSX was "meant" to be debuted perhaps 2 years earlier than it was, and the 573 HP would have been much more significant. By the time the NSX came to market, the 458 had morphed into the 488 with over 600 HP. The NSX, with regard to HP, was almost obsolete the day it was released? Since then, there has been a major escalation in factory HP. Now cars are routinely sold from the factory with 7-800 HP. Crazy.... Where will it end? How fast is fast enough?

Honda could have easily built a 3.8 L engine with bigger turbos, and bigger electric motors, and could easily made upwards of 700 HP. So, why not? First, I think Honda felt the car was fast enough, and they were trying to maximize the 3.5L they had. Second, I firmly believe they were being conservative, as they have to warranty that power..... As HP goes up, reliability goes down.

But the car is fast as is...... it is different, and unique, and at $43K off sticker, I jumped, thinking it was a supercar bargain. I have not been disappointed.......

 

[drmanny3]

I recall many years ago, I had the pleasure of having the NSX Engineers visit my home. Among them was the "Father" of the S2000 and 91-2005 NSX. Mr. Shigeru Uehara asked me questions about what I wanted in the new NSX. I had at the time a 2001 NSX-T that was pretty much stock. I mentioned having more horsepower. He kind of smiled and said that most people cannot drive the current NSX with the power it has, let alone adding more. I understood what he meant. It is one thing to take off in a straight line. It is a very different situation to race on a course among experienced drivers. The car was very balanced. The Japanese are generally conservative. I have to believe that the DNA that represented the NSX back then is still similar to what is essentially the Honda Corporation. Obviously things change. I believe Honda is one of those companies that like Toyota is bigger than any one individual leader. There is a collective mindset that is nurtured and kept alive. We can certain agree or disagree that is our propagative. As customers we can make our expectations very clear in terms of what we buy. Having said that I see the new NSX as a continuation of this DNA. Years from now we may see it from a different perspective.

 

[docjohn]

Makes perfect sense ..being in the acura/Honda world for over 23 years myself having owned s2000/nsx/myriad mdx/TL/CTR.....I've met and chatted with most of the "brass" as well as Uehara ect at many nsxpo's....never braved the Fiesta trip though. You get a comfort level with the brand and the culture.The NC1 is a no brainer to guys like you and I. However I have not purchased yet still waiting for a more track focused version.If not the upcoming GT4-RS looks promising...


PS .....very much identify with Jenson Button....

 

[Honcho]

Makes perfect sense ..being in the acura/Honda world for over 23 years myself having owned s2000/nsx/myriad mdx.....I've met and chatted with most of the "brass" as well as Uehara ect at many nsxpo's....never braved the Fiesta trip though. You get a comfort level with the brand and the culture.The NC1 is a no brainer to guys like you and I. However I have not purchased yet still waiting for a more track focused version.If not the upcoming GT4-RS looks promising.

I'm hoping Acura pulls the trigger on a DOT-legal version of the NSX-GT3 and calls it either a Type-S or Type-R...

 

[docjohn]

me too.....

 

[Honcho]

me too.....

As I understand the current corporate position, the Type-R "performance brand" belongs to Honda and the Type-S to Acura, so most likely it would be a NSX Type-S.

 

[alum04org]

Makes perfect sense ..being in the acura/Honda world for over 23 years myself having owned s2000/nsx/myriad mdx.....I've met and chatted with most of the "brass" as well as Uehara ect at many nsxpo's....never braved the Fiesta trip though. You get a comfort level with the brand and the culture.The NC1 is a no brainer to guys like you and I. However I have not purchased yet still waiting for a more track focused version.If not the upcoming GT4-RS looks promising.

docjohn you captured it :biggrin: in your statement "You get a comfort level with the brand and the culture." Nails it.
Guessing that's why we own more than one.

To drmanny3 - Mr. Uehara looks young in that photo! Thanks for posting it. I met him in 2007 at Mid Ohio ALMS race weekend.



Now, back to thread Would you still want your NSX if it had a modified production engine?

 

[BAVARIA]

docjohn you captured it :biggrin: in your statement "You get a comfort level with the brand and the culture." Nails it.
Guessing that's why we own more than one.

And that's why this writer has one 25 year old Acura product (NSX) and a 16 year old Acura product (04 TL). Have not owned a car since these two that I love more.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

And that's why this writer has one 25 year old Acura product (NSX) and a 16 year old Acura product (04 TL). Have not owned a car since these two that I love more.

The 04 TL was an interesting case.

I have met folks who had zero issues with them.

Mine had 2 radio head units die, brakes rotors that rotted, tire problems, leather that had quality issues, and frequently threw transmission codes. It was the only Honda we have had since we started with them in 1979 that I wouldn't sell privately. I sold it to a Broker and smiled all the way home after dumping it.

The 2017 NSX is the only vehicle that has been of interest from them since and I don't see anything else coming.

Thinking about adding an LC 500 convertible as I still miss the open top aspect of the S2000.

 

[BAVARIA]

The 04 TL was an interesting case.

I have met folks who had zero issues with them.

Mine had 2 radio head units die, brakes rotors that rotted, tire problems, leather that had quality issues, and frequently threw transmission codes. It was the only Honda we have had since we started with them in 1979 that I wouldn't sell privately. I sold it to a Broker and smiled all the way home after dumping it.

The 2017 NSX is the only vehicle that has been of interest from them since and I don't see anything else coming.

Thinking about adding an LC 500 convertible as I still miss the open top aspect of the S2000.

I largely fall into the no issues group with the TL.

It came with lousy Bridgestone tires but that was well known to Acura and dealer replaced those for me. The Gen III TLs (04-06) had some transmission issues but I'm an old school BMW maintenance proponent so my trans was serviced using the 3X3 Honda method every 30K miles and shifts same today with 183K miles as when car was new.

Yes leather is not greatest but car was always garaged so no sun damage and it was only last year that the perforated leather on driver seat developed a number of tears -- sourced a seat same color from a junkyard in near perfect condition ($40!) -- a bit of elbow grease and some touch up by a used car detailer on driver side bolster and presto looks like a seat with 60,000 miles. And best part is the owner left some ID in the car with his picture on it so I know he was not a heavyweight -- no sag in bottom cushion like my old seat -- LOL!

Rotor warpage a common problem but again, a good relationship with dealer and fact that rotors are cheap didn't upset me too much as near nothing else was annoying or went wrong. Only two mechanical issues in 16 years/183K miles -- a/c compressor threw up on itself in year 14 (OEM Denso unit sourced for $220 delivered to my door and paid dealer approximately $500 for the install) and a throttle position sensor (a $400 job at dealer). Nothing else but maintenance (and a lot of it over 183K miles).

Car still looks good (much better than most modern Japanese sedan cartoonish design language) and runs fine. I would not hesitate to drive it cross country. I (am supposed to) daily drive my Audi A6 3.0T but I find myself grabbing the keys to the old TL as often as I use the Audi -- the TL is like a very good old friend. We have two Audis in the family fleet (the A6 is a /15 and wife's A4 is an /18) -- never going to keep those cars past 6 or 7 years and 60-70,000 miles. More trouble (thankfully under warranty) with the A6 in its first three years than the trusty old TL in 16 years. And don't get me started on how VAG treats its customers........

Bricks, I hope you are enjoying your new NSX -- I've had the opportunity to drive the new car twice -- would love to have one to keep my minty /94 company! I just can't justify the cash outlay and keep looking for a partner here in MI to share a new one with but none of my local NSX buddies are interested. Agree with you that little from Honda/Acura of much interest. I would very much like to return to the Acura fold and although the updated TLX looks interesting on paper (the S Type) from what I read the interior volume is no different from the old TLX and I suspect the back seat is simply going to be too small for my needs which is disappointing. Maybe the rumored Mazda 6 re-do a few years from now will meet my needs.

Best,
Jeff

 

[Bricks and Bio]

Bavaria, you have the magic touch.

Some of the issue with the TL was that it would do bad things first for my wife, who I purchased the car for and then for our son who would take the car to and from school at SUNY Binghamton and we lived in MA.

I agree the car design still looks good today.

It also had a big turning radius and you ofter see them with dents at the rear doors where they meet the rear quarter panel (I am guilty of doing this myself).

The new TLX is not my cup of tea as I tend to avoid traverse FWD based architecture (my 2014 Infiniti Q50S Hybrid AWD is chugging along great with over 90K miles and no end in site, except Infiniti looks to be pretty much toast).

 

[BAVARIA]

Bricks, as I'm fond of saying.......sometimes better to be lucky than good. My Dad also has a TL (07). Same story, very reliable. I guess all vehicles are a compromise of some sort or other and some owners have better experiences than others.

Yes, the Infiniti story is sad. Not that different from where Acura seemed to be headed a few years ago (and who knows, may still head there). I had a few Maximas in the late 80s/early 90s -- an /89 GXE and the lovely /93 SE 190 hp twin cam engine car. Japanese BMWs in a sense. Super reliable and fun cars. So from the days of those wonderful Maximas and the Infiniti Q45, here we are with nothing from Nissan/Infiniti of much interest. Very unfortunate.

Best,
Jeff

 

[Bricks and Bio]

I am all about the better lucky than good.

Early in my career I had 2 job offers, one from Cambridge Neuroscience and the other from Genzyme. The first job was a better position but the company was very early stage. Genzyme was far more of a business even back in 87, I went there and the company never had a bad quarter in 18 years. Things were heading South and I left in 2005 (they headed further South, got saddled with an activist investor and later sold to Sanofi. Anyone who invested in Genzyme in 87 and stayed in, got about 52X on their money in 25 years).