So you are leasing an NSX for ~$160 a month!
What is the catch?
Would you guys pay cash for a used 2002 and above or finance it?
- Thread starter NRG
- Start date
So you are leasing an NSX for ~$160 a month!
What is the catch?
I did not calculate the interest rate on the lease, because leases use what they call a money factor, not interest rate.
The lease is for 799/month plus tax close end lease on a 36 month lease, it has an annual mileage of 7.5k, but the over mileage is only $.15/mile, which is lower than most other leases with $.25/mile.
If I remember correctly, the cap. cost is $83.5k with residual value at $61k at the end of the lease. Which means you are paying $22.5k plus interest for 3 years with the mileage restriction. The way they calculate intest is with money factor from the MSRP, the selling price of the car, not just the difference between selling price and residual value.
$799 * 36= $28764
($28764-$22500)/3=$2088 (interest you pay per year.)
$89000 * 2% = $1780 (interest you pay per year on 2% interest rate)
I know this is not the most accurate way to do the calculation, this is just to give you an idea why I think it is hell of a deal.
When I was looking at the NSX, I was also looking at Porsche Boxter S, 911, and BMW M3, I had been a beemer man for the last 12 or so years and I like the performance the new M3 offers, to make a long story short. With the same amount of drive-off fee (Under $4000). The boxter was around $820 / month, the M3 pass $900/month and the 911 was over $1050/month. All with over mileage charge of $.25/mile.
All the payments are before tax. Just to show how GREAT this lease deal was/is
After having it for a year now, I never once regret the decision to choose the NSX over the other. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
It is just such a joy to drive, I had long exceeded my mileage limitations, and will be purchasing this baby at the end of the lease. If there is new HSC, I will probably get one of those too. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
The lease is for 799/month plus tax close end lease on a 36 month lease, it has an annual mileage of 7.5k, but the over mileage is only $.15/mile, which is lower than most other leases with $.25/mile.
If I remember correctly, the cap. cost is $83.5k with residual value at $61k at the end of the lease. Which means you are paying $22.5k plus interest for 3 years with the mileage restriction. The way they calculate intest is with money factor from the MSRP, the selling price of the car, not just the difference between selling price and residual value.
$799 * 36= $28764
($28764-$22500)/3=$2088 (interest you pay per year.)
$89000 * 2% = $1780 (interest you pay per year on 2% interest rate)
I know this is not the most accurate way to do the calculation, this is just to give you an idea why I think it is hell of a deal.
When I was looking at the NSX, I was also looking at Porsche Boxter S, 911, and BMW M3, I had been a beemer man for the last 12 or so years and I like the performance the new M3 offers, to make a long story short. With the same amount of drive-off fee (Under $4000). The boxter was around $820 / month, the M3 pass $900/month and the 911 was over $1050/month. All with over mileage charge of $.25/mile.
All the payments are before tax. Just to show how GREAT this lease deal was/is
After having it for a year now, I never once regret the decision to choose the NSX over the other. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
It is just such a joy to drive, I had long exceeded my mileage limitations, and will be purchasing this baby at the end of the lease. If there is new HSC, I will probably get one of those too. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
nsxtasy said:
Excellent point. In that case, instead of getting $14,000 in income resulting in $10,000 in your pocket, you have even more than $14,000 invested - as much as $16-20K or more, depending on the extent of the match.mc-ca said:
drew said:
I disagree.
I think in terms of loans and financing - It all depends on what your "cost" of money is. If you're able to get a loan at 4% interest and you are able to make 5% on your investments (post tax), then you should maximize the amount you borrow. On the other hand, if your credit is not the best and you can only borrow at 8-9%, then you should pay cash if you have it.
People who make a lot of money, know how to use money as a tool and leverage it to make more money.
Engel07 said:
If you have the financial capability, why not do both - get the house and car and live life to the fullest... you only live once... unless you're Buddhist or have been cryogenically frozen.
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awsomr1,
Thanks for that explanation. That's what I meant by the 2%. You are right, it is an awesome deal!! :smile:
drew,
No, not $160/month!? Where did that come from??? I pay $799/month. You can't touch another $90K car for that. Granted, your credit has to be spotless and the income has to be there, but it's a great deal!! Take care.
Thanks for that explanation. That's what I meant by the 2%. You are right, it is an awesome deal!! :smile:
drew,
No, not $160/month!? Where did that come from??? I pay $799/month. You can't touch another $90K car for that. Granted, your credit has to be spotless and the income has to be there, but it's a great deal!! Take care.
Just to add my $0.02, hindsight is 20/20. I'm now 37 and starting over. Because of legal trouble I was in, I had to cash out all my investments and 401K to pay attorneys. Then I had to file bankruptcy to get rid of the additional money I owed the IRS (401K early withdrawl penalties and money set aside from being paid 1099 that went to the lawyers) and attorneys (yes, IRS debt is dischargable after 3 years). The only asset I have left today is my NSX (which I barely got to keep when I filed bankruptcy).
What I *should* have done in the late 90s was bought a house instead of an NSX, but I was single, making six figures a year, loved cars and was short sighted. I NEVER EVER expected property values to explode the way they did, and figured I could always buy a house later. Now I simply can't afford one and I make a hell of a lot less than I used to (which is still a hell of a lot more than most people around here) and am now supporting three.
The average cost of a house in eastern MA/southern NH is $350,000. Who the HELL can afford that unless they happened to already have a house they bought several years back. Even before property taxes (which are brutal), you're still looking at over $1600/mo with $50K down at 5%!!! Now I'm screwed. I am married with a 6 week old, rent has moved into the realm of $1500+/month for a small 2 bedroom in the suburbs, an hour commute from work. I can rent month to month, which is what I'm doing, throwing money out the window and hope property values come down (I just can't see how they can keep going up when people are being priced out of the market as it is), or move out of New England where I've lived my whole life (and which my wife refuses to do, unless it's to La Jolla or Honolulu... AHAHAHAHA!!!!!)
What I *should* have done in the late 90s was bought a house instead of an NSX, but I was single, making six figures a year, loved cars and was short sighted. I NEVER EVER expected property values to explode the way they did, and figured I could always buy a house later. Now I simply can't afford one and I make a hell of a lot less than I used to (which is still a hell of a lot more than most people around here) and am now supporting three.
The average cost of a house in eastern MA/southern NH is $350,000. Who the HELL can afford that unless they happened to already have a house they bought several years back. Even before property taxes (which are brutal), you're still looking at over $1600/mo with $50K down at 5%!!! Now I'm screwed. I am married with a 6 week old, rent has moved into the realm of $1500+/month for a small 2 bedroom in the suburbs, an hour commute from work. I can rent month to month, which is what I'm doing, throwing money out the window and hope property values come down (I just can't see how they can keep going up when people are being priced out of the market as it is), or move out of New England where I've lived my whole life (and which my wife refuses to do, unless it's to La Jolla or Honolulu... AHAHAHAHA!!!!!)
$350k is not so bad, here in Los Angeles, the last time the news broadcast housing medium is $465K 
The average annual income to support that is $102K, I know not everyone that bought a house within the last 12 month makes that kind of money. And they are still selling like crazy. Multiple offers on better school district homes.
It is crazy I know, but me and the wife just bit the bullet in 03, bought a house, in 04 we got the NSX and got married.
Work is hard and we both travel over 50miles each way to work. During traffic hours (which is almost all the time) it will take over 1.5 hour each way. But are we glade we did it???
YES :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
The average annual income to support that is $102K, I know not everyone that bought a house within the last 12 month makes that kind of money. And they are still selling like crazy. Multiple offers on better school district homes.
It is crazy I know, but me and the wife just bit the bullet in 03, bought a house, in 04 we got the NSX and got married.
Work is hard and we both travel over 50miles each way to work. During traffic hours (which is almost all the time) it will take over 1.5 hour each way. But are we glade we did it???
YES :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
That's what I don't get though, how are houses selling like crazy when the people buying them don't have a previous house and aren't making $102K a year?? They're selling like crazy here too, but you think that would leave other houses empty if they are all just playing musical chairs with the homes.
After taxes, I'm probably taking home around $4.5K/month. To throw half that at a house (that may or may not plummet in value if things actually adjust to sane levels) just doesn't make sense to me. Neither does it make sense to sit around a pay someone rent. This alone causes me no end of anxiety (not to mention that with a bankruptcy, it's not going to be too easy to get a loan, especially one at a reasonable rate). Plus I doubt I will be able to sustain this level of income until I'm 67 to pay off the mortgage.
I repeat... I'm fux0red.
After taxes, I'm probably taking home around $4.5K/month. To throw half that at a house (that may or may not plummet in value if things actually adjust to sane levels) just doesn't make sense to me. Neither does it make sense to sit around a pay someone rent. This alone causes me no end of anxiety (not to mention that with a bankruptcy, it's not going to be too easy to get a loan, especially one at a reasonable rate). Plus I doubt I will be able to sustain this level of income until I'm 67 to pay off the mortgage.
I repeat... I'm fux0red.
robr - can you move to a cheaper place to live? Houses in the midwest and the south may still be affordable, if you can find a smilar job.
What you experienced is what I have been trying to tell my friend who rents and can buy a house now but doesn't really want to.
What you experienced is what I have been trying to tell my friend who rents and can buy a house now but doesn't really want to.
i dont have a problem with moving if it's to a technology-centric area. dell almost relocated us to austin back in october. the wife however must be near the ocean and wants the "new-englandy" type community downtown feeling. ie, no tons of strip malls everywhere like you see in florida, a downtown area with lots of shops and pubs and restaurants all within walking distance of the house on the ocean. ie... the place everyone wants to live, thus absurd property values. it's what she loved about la jolla. new england feel, southern cali weather. it's also what makes la jolla probably the most expensive place to live in the US (that ive seen at least). average cost of houses there when i was out interviewing with toshiba in irvine back in 2000 was $850K. It's probably double that now.
she'd rather buy a dump condo for $300K in an area she wants to be in than a nice house with a yard. it's very frustrating to me. we lived on cape cod for 2 years and she hated it there and says it's the middle of nowhere and she'll never do it again. i LOVED it there... middle of nowhere to her means she has to drive more than 10 minutes to bed, bath and beyond, yet doesn't want roads filled with strip malls, and has to be near the ocean... ARRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!
she'd rather buy a dump condo for $300K in an area she wants to be in than a nice house with a yard. it's very frustrating to me. we lived on cape cod for 2 years and she hated it there and says it's the middle of nowhere and she'll never do it again. i LOVED it there... middle of nowhere to her means she has to drive more than 10 minutes to bed, bath and beyond, yet doesn't want roads filled with strip malls, and has to be near the ocean... ARRGGGHHHH!!!!!!!
I feel for you, Rob. You should switch roles w/your wife, and let her worry about the economics side of the relationship for a while. She might see things differently then. We all want nice things, but when you're the one that has to foot the bill you quickly realize that not everything is worth the price tag.
PHOEN$X said:
PHOEN$X, your words are truly WORDS OF WISDOM!!
I did this with my girlfriend. While she was going to school I paid all the bills and supported her 100% for seven years. Now she gets to pay all the bills for the next seven years. After that we spilt everything 50-50. I see her going around the house turning off lights in empty room which she never did before. LOL The fuel truck showed up last week to fill the buried 1000 gallon propane tank. As the truck back up the driveway, she could hear the back up beeper I looked over at her and I swear I thought I saw a tear in her eye. :biggrin: :biggrin:
This is my input,
I would never ever, ever, ever pay off a car. EVER. If you can, try not to put any down on a car, at all. Think about it. You have $50k to buy a car. Where at the very worst you will pay 10% for the APR if you finance it. Where rentals will yield you alot more than 10% APR. Which do you choose?? Well, a smart investor would finance the car completely. Especially a depreciating asset at only 10% APR (at worst) Why? You have $50k to spend. Try putting down only $5k at the most. Find a rental, which you seem very familiar with. You have $45k left, say you purchase a $245K and put down that $45k that you didnt put down on the car that you just bought. So now your financing $200k, say at 6%. Your payment are at $1200 and you rent it out for $1500. (Depending on your local real estate markert, these figure could be different.) So now your making 20% over your mortgage payment and building equity into the house. Seems like a better investment and better use of your money.
Me personally I have never had anything paid off, if anything came close, I took out loans against the item to invest into other things. Im 24 years old, I build huge homes. Because building is the easiest thing in the world, its just managing and scheduling the subs. And I have a lot of money. Wells its a lot to me because its way more than my parents ever seen. Anyways, if you want something and you can afford it, than buy it. Whats the point of living then? But then again, it took me several years for my wife to get use to my decisions. So, if you have a spouse she needs to comply. Mine finally does. Buy the car, you will love it. I wake up start my black on black NSX and say to myself, this is why I bust my fuckin balls for and I love it. Just my 2 cents, but I'm an idiot with an IQ of 137.
I would never ever, ever, ever pay off a car. EVER. If you can, try not to put any down on a car, at all. Think about it. You have $50k to buy a car. Where at the very worst you will pay 10% for the APR if you finance it. Where rentals will yield you alot more than 10% APR. Which do you choose?? Well, a smart investor would finance the car completely. Especially a depreciating asset at only 10% APR (at worst) Why? You have $50k to spend. Try putting down only $5k at the most. Find a rental, which you seem very familiar with. You have $45k left, say you purchase a $245K and put down that $45k that you didnt put down on the car that you just bought. So now your financing $200k, say at 6%. Your payment are at $1200 and you rent it out for $1500. (Depending on your local real estate markert, these figure could be different.) So now your making 20% over your mortgage payment and building equity into the house. Seems like a better investment and better use of your money.
Me personally I have never had anything paid off, if anything came close, I took out loans against the item to invest into other things. Im 24 years old, I build huge homes. Because building is the easiest thing in the world, its just managing and scheduling the subs. And I have a lot of money. Wells its a lot to me because its way more than my parents ever seen. Anyways, if you want something and you can afford it, than buy it. Whats the point of living then? But then again, it took me several years for my wife to get use to my decisions. So, if you have a spouse she needs to comply. Mine finally does. Buy the car, you will love it. I wake up start my black on black NSX and say to myself, this is why I bust my fuckin balls for and I love it. Just my 2 cents, but I'm an idiot with an IQ of 137.
This is the most bizarre financial advice I have ever heard of. :biggrin:ibNSXtcN said:
steve, phoen$x.. if only it were that easy 
. my wife's maximum earnings potential with her skill set is probably $40k/year as a nanny. i'm ready to pack up and move someplace where it's cheaper, i don't feel right doing that, this is where i grew up and this is where all my friends are, but i'll do what i have to do to assure a better life for my family. the wife isn't on board with that. i can't even get her to look at renting 30 miles northwest of here where you can get more for your $$$ because "its in the middle of no where" and not a 5 minute drive to the ocean (where i think we spent a total of 30 minutes this past year).
. my wife's maximum earnings potential with her skill set is probably $40k/year as a nanny. i'm ready to pack up and move someplace where it's cheaper, i don't feel right doing that, this is where i grew up and this is where all my friends are, but i'll do what i have to do to assure a better life for my family. the wife isn't on board with that. i can't even get her to look at renting 30 miles northwest of here where you can get more for your $$$ because "its in the middle of no where" and not a 5 minute drive to the ocean (where i think we spent a total of 30 minutes this past year).91 X said:I'm at the other end of your confusion..if that makes sense
I am selling my prized posession(NSX) to get into the investment property game...After seeing what has gone on here in Cali, I don't want to be kicking myself in the ass 2-3 years down the road when the property I passed up on could have paid for a brand new HSC in that time :biggrin:
I subscribe to the theory "Don't work for your money, let your money work for you" Hopefully my sacrifice/risk will pay off and I will have another NSX or HSC in my garage in 2-3 years...
If I were you, I'd buy yourself an early model 91-94 (25-35K) and use your equity to buy it(tax right off interest) and invest the 70K in some more property...save yourself alot of money and still have an NSX and another property..besides, not much difference between a 91 and an 02, except that the 91 looks better up front :biggrin: (not a big fan of the exposed headlights)
Funny side story...last night I was picking up an 18 pack of Miller light on my way over to some friends house. The dude in front of me was buying like 5 or 6 twelve packs of a varity of expensive beer...On his way back in after his first trip out to his car and noticing my NSX, he started saying "Damn...That NSX is sweeet" "I should start buying Miller Light..I drive a bucket and buy expensive beer..what am I thinking" :biggrin:
Not that buying cheap beer has anything to do with my NSX, I just like cheap ass Miller Light..but it was funny just the same...and maybe it does have a little truth :smile:
I agree, use the equity in your houses to buy it, I was drunk last night when I posted my "bizzare finacial advice"
, I meant every word. But Im a high risk investor, thats the only way life is fun for me. I think I need to talk to a shrink.vtecNSX1 said:That article was very interesting but I still dont get how your $5 turns into $5000 10 years later. Im only 19 and have about $2000 saved up that I was going to use for wheels but 2 mil in 10 years sounds better
If you saved up $2k, dont spend it on wheels man. I bought my first house at 19 with only $500 down. If you want to make easy money, buy distressed properties, and resell them. I use www.realtytrac.com to find my houses. If you want to know some more I can help you.
Heres and example, but its not a distressed property.
I have an appointment at noon today to meet with a buyer of a house that I bought. It's a BRAND NEW house with river frontage that is way too undervalued at $595,000. I put an offer for it at $575k (its been on the market a while) with only $500 earnst money to close in 30 days, listed it in the several different papers for $850k and within a week I had 4 offers. But you need to know property value before you can do this. I've done this several times. I need to go, or ill be late.
NsXMas said:
Not bizarre at all.
All he's saying is instead of taking cash and putting it into a depreciating asset (like a car) he's putting it not only into an APPRECIATING asset (ereal estate) and at the same time one that will put a percentage of your money back into your pocket every month as well.
It's called using OPM (Other People's Money)
nsxtasy said:
You are a pretty sharp guy. I'm surprised you missed that the first time the 401K was mentioned.
If you start maxing 401K money when you first start working you will probably retire early and with more $$$ than you would have imagined (at age 20).
My employer's plan is about as good as there is. They match 100% of the first 6% of savings. That's a 100% return on your money before you even invest it. How can you beat THAT !!! Your income bracket is almost certain to be lower as you withdraw money from the 401K when you do retire.
Only downside to the 401K is trying to use the money before you retire so max out your 401 contribution and make believe you never got paid that money. Just forget about it (Kind of like FICA taxes :biggrin: )
NSX-GUY said:Not bizarre at all.
All he's saying is instead of taking cash and putting it into a depreciating asset (like a car) he's putting it not only into an APPRECIATING asset (ereal estate) and at the same time one that will put a percentage of your money back into your pocket every month as well.
It's called using OPM (Other People's Money)
Well, it still is a gamble... you're gambling that the real estate asset will appreciate. This is what the real estate market has been doing for the last 20-30 yrs. However, in the 1970's real estate did depreciate. There are many who say that the real estate market is currently in a bubble. If they are correct, then the bubble will readjust itself at some point, and then you will lose money if you bought at the high point of the bubble.
Also, the previously mentioned post about building equity in houses can be misleading. You DO NOT build equity during thefirst 3-5 years of ownership (depending on your loan), where you are making just interest payments, its only when you start making payments on the principal that you are building equity.
Just my .02
Actually, it is a big gamble. 30 years of your life if it goes wrong.
If leverage your money on an assest that depreciates: you are hit with a double whammy. You get to pay the expenses of interest and the difference in loan to actual value.
I got slammed in the late 90's when house prices went down 20%-30% in about 90 days. I was paying 9% interest. I went down to peanut butter and jelly, slept on the floor and took hand me down clothes/furniture (thank gawd, I could wear uniforms to work). I worked long term 80 hour weeks (working 8-10 hours on Sunday was a "day off") just to meet my bills and I did this for 9 years.
I managed to dig out, but it robbed me a decade of my life. Didn't date, didn't do anything except work and sleep....if I was awake: it was time to work. At the age of 23 I was welcomed me to the world of leveraged assests that depreciate.
Right now prices are going up just like the stock boom of the 90's. Something like 5%-10% a month. I have bought and sold 5 houses in the past 20 months...each time the sale price was 2x the _purchase price_, which is translating into a 1000% annual gain on a standard down payment.
I'm not sure how much longer this can last--a few months to a few more years, but it will correct. The big clue is that everybody is talking about how they are "millionaires", how much equity they have in their house and such....I knew the stock market crash was about to arrive when I heard airline attendants talking about the tactics of futures and shorting. I don't hear much stock talk nowadays...despite the best market in years.
**
As for leasing cars at 2%, I don't know how you guys do your math (listening to Congress??? I saw the "money value" Enron style break down...whatever) but $800 per month for a lease is not. My low SAT scores lead me to believe that this is $9600 per year or about 12% of the purchase value of the car.
I WISH I could get that return on liquid cash: I would double my net worth about every 6 years.
While leasing might be a good idea in the very short term, you have to pay $10K per year every year you drive a car (7500 miles...who does that?) and you own nothing at the end of all this. Using this logic: my NSX is 15 years old, I have saved +$80K (opportunity money) which I was able to invest in appreciating assets and build a life that allows me to concentrate on the things that interest me.
Drew
/Would lease a F430 tommorrow if the lease payments were going be 2% of the purchase price, or about $300 month...that would actually make sense.
If leverage your money on an assest that depreciates: you are hit with a double whammy. You get to pay the expenses of interest and the difference in loan to actual value.
I got slammed in the late 90's when house prices went down 20%-30% in about 90 days. I was paying 9% interest. I went down to peanut butter and jelly, slept on the floor and took hand me down clothes/furniture (thank gawd, I could wear uniforms to work). I worked long term 80 hour weeks (working 8-10 hours on Sunday was a "day off") just to meet my bills and I did this for 9 years.
I managed to dig out, but it robbed me a decade of my life. Didn't date, didn't do anything except work and sleep....if I was awake: it was time to work. At the age of 23 I was welcomed me to the world of leveraged assests that depreciate.
Right now prices are going up just like the stock boom of the 90's. Something like 5%-10% a month. I have bought and sold 5 houses in the past 20 months...each time the sale price was 2x the _purchase price_, which is translating into a 1000% annual gain on a standard down payment.
I'm not sure how much longer this can last--a few months to a few more years, but it will correct. The big clue is that everybody is talking about how they are "millionaires", how much equity they have in their house and such....I knew the stock market crash was about to arrive when I heard airline attendants talking about the tactics of futures and shorting. I don't hear much stock talk nowadays...despite the best market in years.
**
As for leasing cars at 2%, I don't know how you guys do your math (listening to Congress??? I saw the "money value" Enron style break down...whatever) but $800 per month for a lease is not. My low SAT scores lead me to believe that this is $9600 per year or about 12% of the purchase value of the car.
I WISH I could get that return on liquid cash: I would double my net worth about every 6 years.
While leasing might be a good idea in the very short term, you have to pay $10K per year every year you drive a car (7500 miles...who does that?) and you own nothing at the end of all this. Using this logic: my NSX is 15 years old, I have saved +$80K (opportunity money) which I was able to invest in appreciating assets and build a life that allows me to concentrate on the things that interest me.
Drew
/Would lease a F430 tommorrow if the lease payments were going be 2% of the purchase price, or about $300 month...that would actually make sense.
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