WORLD INNOVATION !! AP BIG BRAKE KIT with Stock Caliper

Hi Dirk,

Nice to see so many people interested.
As for me, I have another question. I've used the Axxis pads from Dali and was quite happy with them. Could I do the modifications to the pads needed to be used with the new brake-discs myself and how much work would it involve.
Maybe a picture with an original and a modified pad would be nice because I am not sure what you mean exactly at this moment.

Second questions is, are you busy on a similar modification of the rear discs as well ??
 
Hi Maarten, I`ll try to attach a picture as soon as possible, maybe already today. The modification is a quit easy job and all you need is a good file. You can modify all OEM Size pads and pads like Ferodo (which is a few millimeter less heigh as a mintex) are modified in around 2 minutes for each pad. The measure as I told you can always take from the new rotors or I`ll give you cut form from thick paper which I also use. After installing the pads it is good to check the pads with a pocket-lamp for correct fitness.

I´ve also good idea for the rear, but as many knows SOS have already a kit like this for the rear in her program, so I´ll try to get another and cheaper solution which isn`t similar to the SOS brake.

I think around 70% of the Brake performance goes to the front, so the rear didn´t need so much attention.

Best regards and I hope you get your car ready, soon.

Dirk
 
Last edited:
Answer to mcibuk

Hi Peter,

17 inch wheels takes regular tires size 215/40 ZR 17. As known lower profil tyre takes normally some minus points by the comfort. For quick driving or handling the lower profil tyre give you some plus point. The reason that we`re driving sports car is that we aren`t so interested in the comfort of the car, but good handling and quick laps. I drive approx. 7 years the 215/40 ZR 17 tyres and I won`t miss them. Corner speed at high speed driving is much better, but by really bad underground you sometimes you are better served with OEM Tyres.

Best wishes to England.

Dirk
 
Hi Maarten,

here is the pic with a modified pads and a OEM size pad.
As you can see it is only a few millitmeter on top which you`ve to file. Quit easy job.


Best regards

Dirk
 

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NSX-Racer said:
?? I'm pretty puzzled about your experiences. I have 22 mm spacers at all wheels for nearly 6 years now - more than one year with high speed driving on the empty autobahn nearly every night from Baden-Baden to Mannheim - 60,000 km per year (sometimes top speed for more than 10 minutes per night) and never had any problem with stability. You should make an A/B comparison with the same car and the same tires (of course also with the same suspension) to have a clue of the influence of spacers.

I also don't know how someone could not be satisfied with the P- (or Mov'it) brakes - some NSXers in our club changed to that brakes after they saw and checked them at my car in late '98. None of them told me that he doesn't like them. If a brake withstands a long track day with race slicks and hard braking without fading I would call it very good.

Not to speak of the other advantages: Cheaper discs, cheaper brake pads than the OEM parts with its horrible prices, you can easily change the pads at the track and if you forgot to take some spare part with you there is always a P-car with the same brake nearby - no matter what kind of track day it is (even with our NSX and Honda sportcars club).

So I'm quite interested on which cars under what circumstances and with what tires you had that bad experiences. Maybe I should ask too if these brakes were really the same as I have (together with stainless steel lines) and if they were mounted and maintained properly.
Click to expand...

Hi Wolfgang,

I fully agree with you. As you know I compete a few years in the NSX Trophy now. I use the same brake kit as you do and I never had problems with high speed. I use Ferodo 2500 for track use and Ferodo 2000 for the street.

I don't agree with Detlef and Dirk concerning the high speed issue.

But I hope to see you all at Spa and surely want to see the brake kit Dirk brings with him.
 
Procar Specials said:
But most of the NSX drivers uses aftermarket wheels, which are bigger than your small OEM wheels. Than some big spacers into the front...I dont wanna comment that.

A street NSX with Porsche brakes and bigger wheels will definately get problems with running straight at high speed and with fading.
There will be another NSX driver in SPA, who told me the same last year. AFAIK, he owns a tuning shop. ;)
Click to expand...

Hi Detlef,

No offence, but I can not agree with you. For track, I use 17 inch Technomanesia racing wheels with medium compound Yokohama slicks and I have no problems with the brakes what so ever.

I only need a 7mm spacer.

For the street, I use 18 inch Technos all around or 17 inch front and 18 rear OZ racing and also no problems with high speed.

I have never noticed fading with the MOVIT Brembo brakes under what ever circumstances. The only fading I had, was with my other NSX that uses OEM wheels and brakes.
 
Last edited:
Gerard van Santen

Hi Gerard,

do you`ve assembled the OEM Air-Cooler (for air condition) on your car? Or do you drive without the cooler on the race track?

Did you tried Mintex M1177 Pads on your car? I wasn`t really happy with them. I now use Ferodo 2500 and the work much better. What are your own experience comparing to the Ferodo 2000 which you sometimes use. Thanks for info.

Best regards

Dirk
 
disadvantage with front spacers

Sorry only in German

Hallo,


Distanzscheiben vorne verschlechtern das Fahrverhalten in jedem Fall. Grundsätzlich wäre eine größere Spurweite zwar günstig für die gesamt Querdynamik, da die Lage der Lenkachsen der Räder jedoch unverändert bleibt, bringen diese Distanzscheiben nur Nachteile.

Entscheidend ist der Hebelarm zwischen Längskraft am Rad, sprich Antriebs- und Bremskräfte zur Lenkachse (Längsachse des Achsschenkelbolzens). Bei Verwendung von Distanzscheiben bleibt diese Achse natürlich unverändert, die Längskräfte bekommen aber einen Hebelarm um diese Achse. Dadurch wird das Rad beim Bremsen vorne nach außen und beim Beschleunigen vorne nach innen (Vor- bzw. Nachspur) gestellt, da die Gelenke ja elastisch sind. Dies hat ein instabiles Bremsverhalten, einen schlechteren Geradeauslauf und erhöhten Verschleiß in den Achsgummis zur Folge.

Wenn du mal ein Fachbuch in die Hand bekommst, schlag mal unter dem Begriff "Lenkrollhalbmesser" nach.

http://www.kfz-tech.de/Lenkrollhalbmesser.htm
 
Last edited:
Re: Gerard van Santen

Dirk said:
Hi Gerard,

do you`ve assembled the OEM Air-Cooler (for air condition) on your car? Or do you drive without the cooler on the race track?

Did you tried Mintex M1177 Pads on your car? I wasn`t really happy with them. I now use Ferodo 2500 and the work much better. What are your own experience comparing to the Ferodo 2000 which you sometimes use. Thanks for info.

Best regards

Dirk
Click to expand...

Hi Dirk,

I haven't disassembled the air-cooler. I have full advantage of the airco, also on track :D when everybody is cooking in the car.

I never used the Mintex pads.

The reason why I use the Ferodo 2000 for the street, is because the bite is less than the 2500 and you don't need to warm them up. The 2500 needs warming up. If you don't, it will wear out your discs.

You must try the 3000 for the street. It is on or off. You can really test your tires and your ABS, but within a couple off 100 km you can throw away your discs. The higher the number the less usable for street. The 3000 is more for endurance racing on high demanding tracks. The 2500 for normal track use.

Best regards,
Gerard
 
The same goes for the Mintex pads. 1144, 1155, 1177 the pads get harder the higher the number. They also work in higher temperature ranges.

I use 1155 road and track. I haven't used many types of pad, but I think these are OK for me.

I shall be using them at Spa also.
 
Hi Dirk,

Thanks for your reply.
I appreciate that the lower profile tyres will have a negative impact re comfort but i was uncertain if increasing front wheel from 16" to 17" would affect high speed stability even with a lower profile tyre.
It seems you are really happy with the combination.
Why didn't Honda do this as an OEM fit?

Best Wishes from all us Brits
 
mcibuk said:

I appreciate that the lower profile tyres will have a negative impact re comfort but i was uncertain if increasing front wheel from 16" to 17" would affect high speed stability even with a lower profile tyre.
It seems you are really happy with the combination.
Why didn't Honda do this as an OEM fit?
Click to expand...

Front 17" is already the OEM size for the newer NSX.
 
answer to mcibuk

Hi Peter,

as Honda started in the past with the nsx the big wheels and tyres wasn`t so much popular as now. The tyres development make a big step in the last 14 Years and now at the current model (NA2) you get the following OEM wheels and tyres

Front Wheels Forged aluminum alloy - 7 JJ x 17
Rear Wheels Forged aluminum alloy - 9 JJ x 17
Front Tires P215/40 R17 83Y
Rear Tires P255/40 R 17 94Y

It`s looks similar to the tyres which I already use for many years ( 215/40 R 17 / 265 /40 R 17).

Best regards

Dirk

Hope to see a lot of your British guy`s in SPA/Belgium
 
Gents,
Thanks for the update re newer NSX's - i wasn't aware of this! (still learning lots!!)
My car is 1995 with 215/45/16 front tyres and 255/40/17 rears. When the fronts are worn out i will look at moving to 17" and will think about the brake upgrade then. Look forward to running report!

Many Thx,

Peter
 
Saw Dirk's new AP brake kit yesterday at SPA.
Its an amazing kit.
Ultralight rotors, beautiful machined hats, nice adapters,
a real professional kit.

I decided to buy one set and test it.
With the Ferodo DS 2500 brake pads and the standard NSX calipers (which is a good thing for the german TÜV here in our country) its an ownstanding kit for less money comparing to other kits.

I'll give a full test report after installation.
 
I do not agree with statement of fading with Porsche calipers and rotors. I've driven numerous brake options. Including Brembo Indy caliper that Comptech sells. Anybody that serious about racing knows what brembo indy caliper is and the difference with off-the-shelf brake kits. We are talking roughly $1500 per caliper. The only other brake caliper that I know that can keep up with the kit Comptech offers is Porsche big red. The biggest advantage of the Porsche kit is that the rotors and calipers are massive. The only other caliper that close to the size is Stoptech. Nobody offers 33mm thickness rotors like The Porsche has. It has tremendous cooling capacity and additional benefit of lower PMI (Polar Moment of Inertia) compared to bigger rotors.

I've driven the Porsche kit in non stop 1 hours and 20 minutes on the track with no side of fading. I can't say I've experienced anything like that in any other brake kit, periods!

Anybody that knows me, know how hard I can push the car. Just FYI, I wear out stock brake pads in one session. I wear out stock pads that come in Brembo kit in 1 day! None of them can withstand more than 30 minutes session with fading or overheating. The Porsche kit outperform all of them. This is in a full interior street car with AC condensor still in place.

After these tests, I realize how important rotor thickness is for cooling. That's why I uses stock NSX calipers and rotors size for my Civic race car. I have experienced zero brake problem so far!
 
AS far as the comments about using spacers, I do not agree witht hem as well. Porsche uses spacers for all their race cars.

Aftermarket wheels are basically wheels with built in spacers. For example the front NSX wheels offset are 55mm. By adding 20mm spacers, you make the effective offset to 35mm. Essentially the same by using wheels with same dimension but 35mm offset.
 
Andrie Hartanto said:
I do not agree with statement of fading with Porsche calipers and rotors.
I've driven the Porsche kit in non stop 1 hours and 20 minutes on the track with no side of fading. I can't say I've experienced anything like that in any other brake kit, periods!
Click to expand...

Sounds much more like my experiences too than some other posts in this thread, Andy.

No offense against your brake solution, Dirk, it may be a good one. But promoting a new product by bashing another one isn't the appropriate way IMO.
 
Hi Wolfgang, your reply in all honours. But I think you didn`t understand my statement. I didn`t say the Mov it brake is bullshit (they is for sure a better brake as OEM). I only say that the price/performance relation isn´t top because it gives a cheaper solution for a similar brake performance. Bullshit are big spacers with aftermarket wheels which have already have built in spacers. This isn`t growing on my mind, this a technical fact http://www.kfz-tech.de/Lenkrollhalbmesser.htm
For track using, big spacers may cause not the same negative effect as for street using. Most race tracks have plane surface and their is maybe not a problem with big spacers. But roads with bumpy and non plane surface will cause problems. For example: In you theory there is no negative effect with big spacers. So you can put 80 mm spacers on each front wheel and nothing happens as a better handling. Try it let me know, but believe me the car will be terrible. Sure 80 mm is a exaggeration but it should only illustrate the problem. I`m happy that you`re happy with you mov it and big spacers but with your permission I have another opinion and this have nothing to do with promoting or bashing another product.

take care
 

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