Winter: storing the car for the real person

[nsxtasy]

I don't start mine.

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
steeveny, ...ehm... what? poupon?

That was a reference to a television commercial for a brand of mustard in the United States, where a gentleman in a Rolls Royce was asked/asking for more mustard.

Some references to popular culture don't make it across the big pond, even when you understand the language...

 

[steveny]

I thought everyone knew about the grey poupon. When my sister was married I rented a limo for the day. There was grey poupan provided for the passengers. I thought that was so funny.

 

[comquat1]

Any feedback someone can give me on my situation. I currently don't own an nsx (1990 300zx) but plan to in the future. But anyways, I have a two stall garage with the Z on one side and my daily driver on the other. During the winter i wash my daily in the garage with a heater going to keep it clean and nice, however to get enough room to work i have to move my Z outside (of course only if its clear) is this a terrible thing for my Z even if i let it run a while and maybe sneak it around my subdivision on a clear day? I have to make a decision soon on what to do and after reading all the previous posts i dunno about starting my car now. any help would be great. also i just want to say this is one of the best auto forums i've seen in a long time. Everyone seems very professional, i'm glad to be on a forum where i don't have to weed through all the flamers.

 

[nsxtasy]

There are a few downsides to driving the car as you describe. Not showstoppers, by any means, but things to consider.

One, you ought to call your insurance agent if the car is going to be driven on the street, to have him/her reinstate your suspended coverages.

Two, I don't know about where you live, but around here, they use salt on the roads in winter. Even on a clear day when the roads are dry, there is enough powdered salt that the car may get dirty quickly.

Three, you have to make sure to get your car up to operating temperature for a little while, as noted above.

Four, it's a bit of a nuisance to uncover the car, unplug/replug the charger, etc. Minor consideration though.

If I were in your situation, I might consider putting the Z in neutral and pushing it out of its space and back in. Or, I might consider washing the daily driver somewhere other than in your garage.

Originally posted by dnyhof:
i'm glad to be on a forum where i don't have to weed through all the flamers.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 25 October 2002).]

 

[comquat1]

Yeah,
I am preparing for the insurance thing. Also, I wouldn't drive the car on the roads unless we had a good rain shower that cleared everything off, and I still would probably wash the car afterwards just cuz I was bored. Will starting it periodically and letting it run a while every month keep the battery up on charge though without the use of a trickle charger (i hope that's not a stupid question)? I thought about pushing the car out of the garage but my driveway is sloped and it just doesn't sound very easy. I knew when i built this house i should have done a three stall, but i didn't have the cash at the time.

 

[comquat1]

Oh by the way, I'm in Grand Rapids, Michigan. We usually get a fair ammount of snow but we get it, then we get rain and its back to bare ground then we get pounded again and repeat the cycle all over again. The snow is never around for long it seems lately.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by dnyhof:
Will starting it periodically and letting it run a while every month keep the battery up on charge though without the use of a trickle charger (i hope that's not a stupid question)?

In a month, the battery will run down too low to start the car. (I found that a conventional battery will run down too low after about three weeks.) Letting the battery run down will also reduce the life of the battery.

You'll need to either get a battery disconnect switch and leave it disconnected (with no alarm) or get a charger. I recommend the charger; it costs a fraction of what a new battery costs, and your battery will last longer if you keep it fully charged all the time.

 

[comquat1]

What if i moved the car out of the garage either weekly or every other week? I'm a stubborn s.o.b. and i really want to be able to detail throughout the winter.... I'm starting to wonder if I have too much crap in my garage.....

 

[NSX2398]

Originally posted by nsx1164:

This will be my first winter in an unheated garage

LOL .. you guys really crack me up! My garage is unheated and I drive it all winter. It starts at -30F ... just like any other Honda ...you don't have to baby the thing so much. Just put some winter tires on it and keep enjoying it. Check the Avatar picture which was taken on my way to work after about 4" of fresh white stuff. BTW .. when driving in the winter, you'll likely have to use the defrost button which automatically uses the a/c so the seals keep lubricated.

For more info: http://www.nsxsc.com/html/body_article27.html

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91 Blk/Blk daily driver
100K+ miles & still going strong

[This message has been edited by NSX2398 (edited 28 October 2002).]

 

[gheba_nsx]

Ok, the car is stored! Clean, filled up, battery disconnected, tires over-inflated, covered... and with a broken door handle that happened on the way home from the gas station for the last fill-up!

NSX2398, I did this in the last years but what about salt? insurance? ease of use? It could be fun for some day over one winter but not for four months...

 

[Tony Montoya]

Yesterday we had 400 claims for accidents due to 1 cm of snow. You did the right thing parking the NSX for the winter.

 

[NSX2398]

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
NSX2398, I did this in the last years but what about salt? insurance? ease of use? It could be fun for some day over one winter but not for four months...

Salt: you have to keep these things in perspective. Do you see Honda's on the road in the winter where you live? I'm thinking you probably do .. Honda has figured out how to give it's 'average' cars resistance to salt so why wouldn't you drive the NSX .. it's way less vulnerable to the effects of salt than nearly every other car on the road.
Yes, aluminum can corrode if it's unpainted or otherwise protected but I haven't seen any negative effects yet and mine is in and out of a heated parking spot at work which subjects it daily to melting any accumulated snow/salt and is the worst possible scenario.

Insurance: mine costs the same all year round (currently <$1000/yr US) and since it's my daily driver, there's no appreciable savings to park it and license a beater.

Ease of Use: not sure what you're getting at here. I drive it to the same places in the winter that I do in the summer .. just less aggressively if the roads are slippery. Most days, I can still enjoy the VTEC sounds if I want to.

If you live in a part of the world where snow and icy conditions are unusual and people don't know how to deal with it (like Toronto for instance), then that's one thing but from your comment about 'four months of winter', I'm thinking that most of the population where you live already knows how to deal with it and they probably drive with the same care that you would.

YMMV


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91 Blk/Blk daily driver
100K+ miles & still going strong

 

[SJJ28]

While it is true, that I dont have the time, or carbonmonoxide resistance to start 200 cars, and let them run for 45 minutes. This is NOT the reason that I wouldnt start my own car. There are really two problems. The first is that if you do not get the car up to operating temperature, and operate the gear box, condensation will form inside of the engine, exhaust, and gearbox, and then sit there all winter. Moisture is the killer of stored cars. If you just let the car idle, for 45 minutes, the upper end of the motor will not be sufficiently oiled, and you will have premature wear of those items needing lubrication up top.
IF you go out and actually drive the car, you could conceivably drive it long enough to get it up to temperature, and not encounter any of the aforementioned problems, BUT, now you're back to where you started, needing to clean, readjust tire pressures, let the car dry thouroughly after washing, (a day or 2) before putting the cover back on etc. And for what??? I really see no benefit.


As for dnyhof;

The WORST THING YOU COULD DO is to wash your other car in the heated garage, and have your stored car sit in that warm moist humid garage for the next few days until it finally drys out. Thats the kiss of death for a stored car. The ideal place for storage is a cool dry place ie: a second floor with climate control, and no water running any where in the room.

I'm thinking the next nice day, I might have to drive my baby up to work, and put her to bed!!

------------------
Steve
91 NSX
01 MDX
02 M3 SMG

[This message has been edited by SJJ28 (edited 28 October 2002).]

 

[gheba_nsx]

NSX2398, I know, cars are manufactured to withstand the salt on the road. But take two cars, one that was used on salty-wet roads and one that was not. Look the underbody, the suspensions, the wheels, ... and tell me you do not notice any difference?
Furthermore now I have a beater, so why should I want to abuse the NSX? When I was beater-less I drove the NSX during the winter but I avoided rainy days because salt & wet were way too much for me... and I had to use public transport! I hated that!

SJJ28, now you are scaring me! My car is parked in a "normal" garage. How do I know that it is not humid enough to ruin the car? It is in the second underground floor of my building and yes... there is a source of water (a sink for cleaning hands) not too far away from the car!

 

[Enzo]

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
SJJ28, now you are scaring me! My car is parked in a "normal" garage. How do I know that it is not humid enough to ruin the car? It is in the second underground floor of my building and yes... there is a source of water (a sink for cleaning hands) not too far away from the car!

Gheba,

I don't think that the sink is the worst problem...Think about all the other cars in your underground garage which are not stored for the winter and bring snow, salt, water from the outside when they park near your NSX !

SJJ28, Thanks for your precision about why not to start the car ! I didn't know about those points !

However in my case, I don't just let the car idle... I drive it in my underground garage which is almost 1mile long ! What do you think ? Is it better ?

Thanks,

David

 

[gheba_nsx]

Enzo, this is not a problem! My car is the last one near the wall and the next parking place near mine is empty 99% of the time!

But the snow brought in the garage by other cars will then evaporate and diffuse in the whole area!

Maybe being in the 2nd underground helps since the snow will fall on the ground before the "enemy" car will reach its parking spot... so many doubts, so many months...

 

[huckster]

hhhmmm. question regarding the battery. sitting for four months straight, i see why the battery would kaput. but with the opportunity to drive at 45-60 day intervals, what is the problem with leaving the battery as is. here in KC we'll have the occasional 45-55 degree nice day throughout the winter. am i missing something here?

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
NSX2398, I know, cars are manufactured to withstand the salt on the road. But take two cars, one that was used on salty-wet roads and one that was not. Look the underbody, the suspensions, the wheels, ... and tell me you do not notice any difference?

Also, if you drive the car in the winter, there will be occasions when you'll be following the salt truck, or driving behind someone shortly after the salt truck has passed, and your car will be hit by a barrage of salt - which does the same thing for the finish as gravel.

Originally posted by huckster:
question regarding the battery. sitting for four months straight, i see why the battery would kaput. but with the opportunity to drive at 45-60 day intervals, what is the problem with leaving the battery as is. here in KC we'll have the occasional 45-55 degree nice day throughout the winter. am i missing something here?

If you leave the battery connected (with the alarm on, etc.), it will discharge sufficiently after 45 days that you won't be able to start the car. And even though you might be able to jump start the car, that discharge also will reduce the life of the battery.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 29 October 2002).]

 

[SJJ28]

I disconnected my battery on Nov11 2000, and reconnected on 4 20 2001, and started the car no problem!! We can probably start 75% of the cars without a charge in the spring. We ussualy do give them a 10-24 hour 2 amp charge to be sure, but a lot of them hold thier charge while DISCONNECTED.

gheba_nsx
don't worry about the moisture that much. IDEALLY, you would have a nice dry place, but that smallamount is not going to kill it. The problem is washing a car in a 2 car heated garage, and the HIGH level of humidity that is developed!!


------------------
Steve
91 NSX
01 MDX
02 M3 SMG

 

[NSX2398]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
there will be occasions when you'll be
following the salt truck, or driving behind someone shortly after the salt truck has passed, and your car will be hit by a barrage of salt

That's what bra's are for. You'll also notice that I'm driving a '91 with 100K+ miles (not a late model show queen) so I have a slightly different perspective on the risk/rewards of daily driving

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
. But take two cars, one that was used on
salty-wet roads and one that was not. Look the underbody, the suspensions, the wheels, ... and tell me you do not notice any difference?

Who cares what the underside looks like? When was the last time someone admired the underside of your car? However, I do admit that I use 'winter wheels'.

Look, I'm not saying that storing is right or wrong .. you need to make your own decisions. What I'm trying to do is point out, through logic and my own example, is that the downsides of driving in the winter are not as severe, and the vehicle is much more durable, than most people think. And on the risk side, there are just as many idiots on the road in the summer as there are in the winter .. that's why we buy insurance.

There isn't a day that goes by that the car doesn't put a grin on my face on the way home and I just can't imagine giving that up because of some hypothetical debate about the possible risks of subjecting it to some additional moisture. You guys obviously don't have enough things to worry about. ;-)



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91 Blk/Blk daily driver
100K+ miles & still going strong

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by NSX2398:
You'll also notice that I'm driving a '91 with 100K+ miles (not a late model show queen) so I have a slightly different perspective on the risk/rewards of daily driving

That's true. I don't drive my car daily. I like keeping it looking clean and shiny and perfect. That's why my goal is to minimize the number of miles driven in snow and slush... and to maximize the number of miles driven on a racetrack, where the only things hitting the car are chunks of rubber that leave black marks that can be buffed off easily.

 

[bonzo]

Hi folks!

Sorry to raise this topic to the front of the list again, but I couldn't help but laugh at myself on this topic. I was just re-reading this thread for the tenth time, wondering if I am storing the car correctly according to the experts, when I realized that this is what makes me a car nut! This is how anal I am:

I drove my car four hours away (with my wife tailing me in our truck), to store in an unheated garage at my dad's cottage. After washing the car, I did all the right things (in my mind) to prepare the car for a long winter's nap (including parking the car on old pieces of carpet, which I'm still wondering about!!). The funny thing is, my wife has accomodated my passion! I wonder what condition our cars are going to be in ten years down the road--I bet this car will be a classic!

Apologies for the rambling--Sunday morning coffee is kicking in....

------------------
Steve
Formula Red '97-T

 

[MAJOR STONER]

Hand brake off, transmission in reverse (6 speed) or park (automatic).