Will someone ban Ferrari from F1?

[cmhs75]

OK this time the race was a lot more exiting than the last one. But again, the boring end result of Schumacher winning yet another race. This is getting obnoxious.
But that's not what pissed me off. It's the conduct of the Ferrari team that really gets on my nerve. They are absolutely monopolizing the F1 field. Just read this quote:

" Montoya managed to reduce the difference to the leader to 3.7 seconds by the time he pitted at the end of Lap 39. Were we going to get a grandstand finish?
No. Montoya emerged from his last pit-stop behind Rubens Barrichello who had yet to make his final pit-stop. “I tried to pass him and he blocked me,” Juan claimed afterwards. All of a sudden the No.2 Ferrari started to lap two seconds slower than it had done previously, letting Michael Schumacher’s Ferrari edge out an eleven second lead.
It was completely legal and within the rules but Juan realized that he might be facing an Indianapolis situation – where Barrichello would not give him room for a pass if he forced one, and decided to settle for the eight points"

Ferrari is playing dirty as usual. There is a host of potential Schumacher beaters out there- namely Montoya, Alonso, and Raikkonen. But as along as Ferrari goes on to do what they always do, these new talents will never shine through.

Good news though is that Honda is really making an impact in F1 with BAR were Button finally finished a 3rd position in his lengthy career in F1 and Sato was at 8th position but the engine blew. I bet it was Sato's fault because he drives F1 cars immaturely. Hell he never finishes a race without driving out of the circuit.

For the whole article click here:

http://www.planetf1.com/_2004_Season/Grand_Prix/Malaysia/story_14736.shtml

 

[Ponyboy]

...Or perhaps the other teams should just get better. I'm tired of those who want some type of welfare system in F1 simply b/c the top teams find themselves so far behind Ferrari. Quit your whining and focus your energies on getting better, more reliable, quicker, and smarter.

 

[NSX-Racer]

Rumours say the Mercedes race engine boss (not the race team boss) has received a big check today to leave the house all of a sudden.

 

[nkb]

Ferrari is playing dirty as usual. There is a host of potential Schumacher beaters out there- namely Montoya, Alonso, and Raikkonen. But as along as Ferrari goes on to do what they always do, these new talents will never shine through.

You don't think Williams (or any other team for that matter) would have done the same, if the situations were reversed? You don't think other teams were doing this before Ferrari became good?

You don't think Schumacher had to go through this when he was the new talent, driving with Benetton?

Montoya is a whiny punk, always crying or pouting about something. I don't know if you ever noticed, but nothing is ever his fault.

I have no problem with Ferrari dominating. It all goes in cycles, eventually they will drop off, and someone else will take over. That's the way F1 works.

 

[Tom Larkins]

I agree w/Ponyboy, the other teams need to work harder or find the personel to develop chassie and engine programs that are better. Maybe certain tracks are coming up that will provide more competition.

Straying from the subject abit;

Did anyone else hear the comment from the announcer that the Honda engine weight was only about 200lbs and that was the main problem last year and in the off-season testing that the engine was flexing under stress due to the minimal overall weight.

Did I hear that correct?

 

[cmhs75]

Re: Re: Will someone ban Ferrari from F1?

You don't think Williams (or any other team for that matter) would have done the same, if the situations were reversed? You don't think other teams were doing this before Ferrari became good?

You don't think Schumacher had to go through this when he was the new talent, driving with Benetton?

Montoya is a whiny punk, always crying or pouting about something. I don't know if you ever noticed, but nothing is ever his fault.

I have no problem with Ferrari dominating. It all goes in cycles, eventually they will drop off, and someone else will take over. That's the way F1 works.

What I'm upset about are the rules and general morality in F1. Now if one of the F1 drivers has a shot at winning a race how come it's legal to use the other teammate as a barrier in order for the leading teammate to win a no sweet match.

And about Montoya being a whiner. It doesn't matter because wither it was Montoya or anyone else, the clock was the one that indicated a 2 second slowing down by Barrichello. Now, this is team Monopoly. And just because it was always done in F1, it doesn’t make t right. F1 is continually changing to make the sport more entertaining. Now the biggest entertainment without any doubt would be a one on one battle until the end of the race. But no, it has to be a team play. And with Ferrari, they can always use Michael's sidekick Barrichello to insure another dull win. F1 is becoming more based on strategy than talent.

 

[cmhs75]

this one is for every one who doubts Montoya'a ability and for those who do not belive him as being one of the top 4 contenders in F1

http://www.planetf1.com/Home/story_14761.shtml

 

[gheba_nsx]

So what? Maybe Schumi did not feel the need to overstress the engine since he was already first? Or maybe Montoya did a very good single lap that he was not able to reproduce over and over? Or ...

What really counts is the total time after the 56 laps, not the best one...


Anyway I agree: Montoy whines a lot but until now he didn't do anything special. For me he is just another average pilot, and facts & results are showing this...

 

[nkb]

this one is for every one who doubts Montoya'a ability and for those who do not belive him as being one of the top 4 contenders in F1

http://www.planetf1.com/Home/story_14761.shtml

I don't think anyone doubts Montoya's ability to go fast for a short period. I grant him that. His problem has always been consistency. Schumacher is worlds ahead of Montoya in consistently driving fast.
This also explains why Montoya does well in qualifying.

Of course, the context of his fast lap was not explained. Was it late or early in the race? Was he on low fuel load at the time? Did he have an open track in front of him?
Schumacher was in the lead, so, by definition, he wouldn't be pushing as hard as someone who is trying to catch up.

 

[nkb]

Re: Re: Re: Will someone ban Ferrari from F1?

What I'm upset about are the rules and general morality in F1. Now if one of the F1 drivers has a shot at winning a race how come it's legal to use the other teammate as a barrier in order for the leading teammate to win a no sweet match.

And about Montoya being a whiner. It doesn't matter because wither it was Montoya or anyone else, the clock was the one that indicated a 2 second slowing down by Barrichello. Now, this is team Monopoly. And just because it was always done in F1, it doesn’t make t right. F1 is continually changing to make the sport more entertaining. Now the biggest entertainment without any doubt would be a one on one battle until the end of the race. But no, it has to be a team play. And with Ferrari, they can always use Michael's sidekick Barrichello to insure another dull win. F1 is becoming more based on strategy than talent.

If you're upset by the rules and general morality, why are you asking for a ban for Ferrari?

Let's be realistic. Did you expect Barichello to move over and allow Montoya to pass without a fight, because it might make it more interesting? You do realize that Barichello is racing also, right? Did he break any rules in keeping Montoya behind him?
Also, keep in mind, that during racing, it makes a difference if you have someone on your tail. When nobody is following, you can take a slightly faster line. When someone follows, you have to take the "racing" line, which is slightly slower, but doesn't open you up for getting passed as easily.

And, let's take it further. What if Montoya had passed Rubens, and come up on Schumacher, and MS had the gall to not allow Montoya to pass? Would you be upset about that? Racing is not only about going as fast as you can around the track, it involves a lot of strategy. As long as F1 allows teams of 2 drivers, you will have team strategy.

I didn't watch this race, but based on some reports, during the lap in which Montoya accuses Barichello of going slow on purpose, there was another car (Baumgarter) in front of both of them. Was that part of the reason that the lap was slower? Probably.

Montoya is a big cry-baby, because he's not getting his way.

 

[MAKO]

OK this time the race was a lot more exiting than the last one. But again, the boring end result of Schumacher winning yet another race. This is getting obnoxious.
[/B][/QUOTE] Than don't watch. By...tegy Best tire supplier Any other questions?

 

[Zanardi 50]

Rumours say the Mercedes race engine boss (not the race team boss) has received a big check today to leave the house all of a sudden.

Uh-oh, bad news for Honda!

BTW, didn't Schumi brought Ross Brawn and his ole' crew at Benetton over to Ferrari when he signed his contract with them? IMO I doubt Ferrari in F-1 would've achieved the level of success they've had in the last few years if it weren't for that. Best driver + best crew chief/engineers = unbeatable team. But still, I'm glad someone like Ferrari is setting the pace for all others to follow. Competition, so they say, improves the breed. Bring it on!!!

Mako,

With all due respect, I think your verbal attack on us Honda Fanboys in your last post is something we should do without here on 'Prime. Me thinks you should take a chill pill.

But I gotta hand it you you bro..... "Honda fanboy"???? LOL! Never heard that one before. That's really funny!

 

[MAKO]

Uh-oh, bad news for Honda!

Oh trust me sport, you'll know it if I verbally attack you, believe me. That was a message to the thread starter, (hence the quote) that cried about F1.

These are the same type of morons who think Bill Gates should forced to "give away" half of everything he earns because he's "too rich". It's nothing but jealousy and socialism really.

To the victor go the spoils, and that's never more apparant than in F1. Capitalism as its finest. I felt the same way when McLaren/Honda was crushing everyone in the 80s, or when Mike Tyson was undefeated and unstoppable, or when the Dallas Cowboys were winning three superbowls in four years.

Ferrari spent over a two decades in purgatory, trying to find the answer. They've obviously found it, good for them.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

To the victor go the spoils, and that's never more apparant than in F1

I totally agree.

Ferrari spent over a two decades in purgatory, trying to find the answer. They've obviously found it, good for them

Reading my mind.

 

[NSX-Racer]

Although Ferrari is top now there is big question mark about the future. If Marlboro (like other tobacco companies) leaves F1 because of the advertisement rules in many countries Ferrari has a big financial problem. That's at least what a Ferrari spokesman said. Remember that the mother company Fiat has a big deficit and Ferrari alone can't pay the F1 engagement by its sales.

So Ferrari won't be banned but would maybe leaving the circus some day.

 

[nkb]

cmhs75,
Out of curiosity, what type of racing do you like? If you don't like the domination of one driver/car, I would guess you would be more inclined to watch NASCAR/CART/Indy?

 

[cmhs75]

Oh trust me sport, you'll know it if I verbally attack you, believe me. That was a message to the thread starter, (hence the quote) that cried about F1.

These are the same type of morons who think Bill Gates should forced to "give away" half of everything he earns because he's "too rich". It's nothing but jealousy and socialism really.

To the victor go the spoils, and that's never more apparant than in F1. Capitalism as its finest. I felt the same way when McLaren/Honda was crushing everyone in the 80s, or when Mike Tyson was undefeated and unstoppable, or when the Dallas Cowboys were winning three superbowls in four years.

Ferrari spent over a two decades in purgatory, trying to find the answer. They've obviously found it, good for them.

MAKO, is it hard for you to express your opinion without insulting people? That's what everybody does in this forum.why don't you try it for a change?

 

[cmhs75]

cmhs75,
Out of curiosity, what type of racing do you like? If you don't like the domination of one driver/car, I would guess you would be more inclined to watch NASCAR/CART/Indy?

I only consider F1 because of the exclusive talent they display. I know how hard it is for a driver to get into F1 and I know that the worst driver in F1 can run circles around any other normal driver with a corolla. That's why I like F1. It's on top of the racing food chain, rallying apart.

But for the last 4 years, F1 wasn't much fun. Apart from last year's season, you don't get that adrenaline rush when you hear that the top three contenders for the title are less than 15 points apart. There should always be a high competition in the spots world. This goes double for F1. Just look at how they changed their driver's title scoring system last year to make the competition more fears. There has to be a high competition in F1 in order to keep people interested.
Now, if Barrichello action of blocking Montoya is totally legitimate, then why is the whole Ferrari crew denying the whole thing? If they are so sure about Ferrari and Schumacher domination, then would it heart then to let Montoya rip and see if he really does challenge Schumacher?
As I said before, yes maybe what Ferrari did is totally legitimate. But, where's the good sportsmen ship in what they did?

 

[nkb]

Now, if Barrichello action of blocking Montoya is totally legitimate, then why is the whole Ferrari crew denying the whole thing?

Ferrari is not denying that Barichello did not let Montoya pass. Blocking another racer from passing you is absolutely legitimate, as long as you are not willfully trying to cause an accident. THAT IS PART OF RACING!!!
What Ferrari and Barichello are denying is that he slowed down on purpose to give Schumacher a bigger cushion.

If they are so sure about Ferrari and Schumacher domination, then would it heart then to let Montoya rip and see if he really does challenge Schumacher?

I repeat from my earlier post, please remember that Barichello is also competing in the race. He is not just there to act as Schumacher's roadblock. In regular race situations, unless you are one of the lesser teams (Minardi, for example), who does not have a chance of competing with one of the big boys (Ferrari, McLaren, Williams), you do not move over and let the other guy pass without a fight. Again, THIS IS PART OF RACING!!!

 

[Taj]

There are the fast, the slow, and the talented, but there are also the emotional one like Montoya. He needs some cheese with his "whine".

 

[poet_x]

I respect Montoya for his racing ability. God knows I wish i had it. And I havn't seen him as a "cry baby" but then my F1 intake is pretty much limited to the races. Sadly I was unable to watch all of the race last weekend due to eyelids that decided to close without my approval, so I was unable to see this "blocking". Ferrari has done sucj things before, include Reubens slowing down so Michael could pick up a win (which I found appauling). However I understand the blocking idea, and it goes on in all racing forms (except WRC for obvious reasons). Nascar, which I watch much more due to its availiblity and timeslots, always has blocking. Announcers consistantly comment on it during bigger races, such as Daytona. While I don't care to see the same person win week after week, I can't deny the incredible talent it takes to keep an entire field behind you every week, week in and week out. Even if Reubens did block, Michael had to do well enough to be in front anyway.

We all have our personal favorite drivers we cheer for as well as drivers we boo. It's all part of the game. I'm just glad I live in a time when i can enjoy such excitement in so many forms. I love racing, and watch almost all I can get my hands on (lawnmower racing has yet to capture my heart). As was mentioned before, the dominant drivers will in time make way for the "next big thing". Jeff Gordan in Nascar is a prime example of this. For a few years, he was almost unstoppable. now Matt Kenseth, Ryan Newman, Tony Stewart, Dale Jr., and Jimmy Johnson are all fighting for top spot. F1 will see it's changes and surrendering of the top of the mountain in due time. Meanwhile I will enjoy every minute of each race I can catch simply for the jealousy I feel for wanting to be in any of their shoes for those couple hours...

 

[effer]

Ferrari is playing dirty as usual.

I agree. I don't mind when there is domination in sport but I do when it isn't fully derserve and when there is cheating.

For sure the Scuderia Ferrari makes a great job BUT unfortunately they also did a lot of dirty things and got big help from FIA to get there.

Moreover, a lot people believe that "Shoe Maker" is not a real champion BECAUSE he always get mad when he faces real opposition ( more than three times he hit on purpose opponents to steal championship- he succeed two times on three ) and he refuses to let any good driver to compete fairly against him in the other Ferrari.

Not exactly the same courage than Senna and Prost in the mighty years of Mc Laren Honda!

So don't blame me but I'm not the only person on this planet who believes it.

"Shoe Maker" is the living proof that not only numbers talk and give the real picture of things...

IMO he is one of the worst champion ever and every times he was in the heat of real competition he failed or cheated.

If I remember correctly,...

1992 Macao with Hakkinen in F3000 ( stoled the championship by hitting on purpose and destroying Hakkinen's race... )

1994 Adelaide with Damon Hill in F1 ( crashed on the William after he made a driving mistake and broke his Benneton: so he crashed on purpose on Hill's Williams... )

1995 A full year of cheating by using illegal fuel and hidden traction control device ( TCS was discovered in a secret sub menu accessible via steering wheel display... )

1997 Jerez with Jacques Villeneuve; the only time he failed...we all remember when we saw him turning the steering wheel towards Villeneuve's car on his right and hitting side of car...

1999 Silverstone with Irvine: he tried to pass Irvine agressively and was way too fast and continued straight in the tire wall which caused its accident who was responsible for his broken leg.

Lots of people believed that there was a desire of Irvine to really compete against him and to refuse to stay number two at "his majesty's service". Maybe the reason why Barrichello replaced him the year later.

There is a host of potential Schumacher beaters out there- namely Montoya, Alonso, and Raikkonen. But as along as Ferrari goes on to do what they always do, these new talents will never shine through.

Absolutely and this is shocking, boring and unfair play.

Remember Senna and Prost, Mansell and Prost, Lauda and Prost...

 

[cmhs75]

Re: Re: Will someone ban Ferrari from F1?

I agree. I don't mind when there is domination in sport but I do when it isn't fully derserve and when there is cheating.

For sure the Scuderia Ferrari makes a great job BUT unfortunately they also did a lot of dirty things and got big help from FIA to get there.

Moreover, a lot people believe that "Shoe Maker" is not a real champion BECAUSE he always get mad when he faces real opposition ( more than three times he hit on purpose opponents to steal championship- he succeed two times on three ) and he refuses to let any good driver to compete fairly against him in the other Ferrari.

Not exactly the same courage than Senna and Prost in the mighty years of Mc Laren Honda!

So don't blame me but I'm not the only person on this planet who believes it.

"Shoe Maker" is the living proof that not only numbers talk and give the real picture of things...

IMO he is one of the worst champion ever and every times he was in the heat of real competition he failed or cheated.

If I remember correctly,...

1992 Macao with Hakkinen in F3000 ( stoled the championship by hitting on purpose and destroying Hakkinen's race... )

1994 Adelaide with Damon Hill in F1 ( crashed on the William after he made a driving mistake and broke his Benneton: so he crashed on purpose on Hill's Williams... )

1995 A full year of cheating by using illegal fuel and hidden traction control device ( TCS was discovered in a secret sub menu accessible via steering wheel display... )

1997 Jerez with Jacques Villeneuve; the only time he failed...we all remember when we saw him turning the steering wheel towards Villeneuve's car on his right and hitting side of car...

1999 Silverstone with Irvine: he tried to pass Irvine agressively and was way too fast and continued straight in the tire wall which caused its accident who was responsible for his broken leg.

Lots of people believed that there was a desire of Irvine to really compete against him and to refuse to stay number two at "his majesty's service". Maybe the reason why Barrichello replaced him the year later.










Absolutely and this is shocking, boring and unfair play.

Remember Senna and Prost, Mansell and Prost, Lauda and Prost...

LOL, you crack me up ( shoe maker) man, that made me roll around on the floor from laughing. How come I never caught that one before?

Although, I was never a fan of the so called ( shoe maker ), I always regarded him as the second best driver after Senna. But after reading your post I started to remember some facts that I new before and now the extra facts you added. And now, I don’t respect the guy that highly anymore. You really exposed shoemaker for what he is. Of course, history will never hear this. They will only know of Schumacher the 6 time world champion and the best driver who ever lived based on numbers!?!? Yeah right

And your point of people making judgment based on numbers only, is absolutely spot on! I hate it when people do that. By numbers only, Schumacher is better than Senna and Montoya is in the same league as Ralf and only an idiot would buy an underperforming overpriced NSX when he can get a Ford Mustang that can produce the same numbers with a quarter of the price, right?

 

[effer]

Re: Re: Re: Will someone ban Ferrari from F1?

LOL, you crack me up ( shoe maker) man, that made me roll around on the floor from laughing. How come I never caught that one before?

Thanks cmhs75!

Here's my favorite though: "Scum maker"!

And your point of people making judgment based on numbers only, is absolutely spot on! I hate it when people do that. By numbers only, Schumacher is better than Senna and Montoya is in the same league as Ralf and only an idiot would buy an underperforming overpriced NSX when he can get a Ford Mustang that can produce the same numbers with a quarter of the price, right?

IOW: The end should never justify the means. This is how I behave in real life.

Cheers!

Effer

 

[frunobulax]

yeah, the credibility of your argument is definitely enhanced by the tactic of name-calling (shoe maker, scum maker, et c.)

schumi crashed at silverstone in 99 due to brake failure, which happened to be a mistake made by the TEAM. racing is a TEAM sport, shumi's just doing his part.

and we wouldn't want to forget that SENNA took out PROST in turn 1 at the start of the japanese grand prix (can't recall the year, exactly), thereby making senna the champ.

there are plenty of excellent parity races to watch on TV already (SCCA, speed touring and GT races, aussie V-8's, trans-am, et c.)

i like the formula one philosophy..."here are the rules, bring your own parity."