but I suspect it will be quite hard to find a new battery for your then 25yo car, that was the point and I know you can replace it relatively easily...when you find it
Will I Buy the New NSX
- Thread starter DrewA
- Start date
You bring up a very interesting point that has been on my mind since they gave us an idea of the price range being around $155k to $170k (someone please tell me if I am wrong but this what I remember). Being you had your NSX for 20 years you probably remember that the NSX price back then was around $60k -$70k depending on the year, wasn't the base 911 at the time in a similar price range ? If anything a loaded 911 was probably more (again someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
I am really disappointed that Acura is pricing the NSX so high. I expected the NSX to be priced in the same range as the 991S which can be roughly around $110k to $130k or even in the price range of the Audi R8 8 cylinder $130k to $140k. I am a MAJOR NSX fan, I had a 95 NSX which I sold a little over a year ago and back when I was in my 20's my father had purchased a new NSX in 1992 which he kept for 7 years. I had put many miles on that car and absolutely LOVED it.
As far as the write ups on the new car the exhaust note to me is very important and hopefully Acura which I am sure has watched each and every review will take note and make a change before the final version of the car is at the dealerships. I'm not loving the fact they made it 3800lbs but from the reviews and given the incredible amount of horsepower it seems the car is going to be a pretty incredible car and I think the design is beautiful, I can't wait to see one in person but again at that price I am disappointed.
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From my searches, a 1995 Porsche 911 Carrera had an MSRP of $61,100 while a 1995 Acura NSX had an MSRP of $81,000 which is 33% more. Which 911 of today would be the best comparison for the new NSX is debatable... 911 base prices range from $89,400 to $194,600.
http://www.autotrader.com/1995-porsche-911+Carrera.jsp
http://www.autotrader.com/1995-Acura-NSX.jsp
(It's back in '91 that the 911 and NSX had similar base prices, both about $62k. The NSX price quickly shot up after that, however.)
Couple of thoughts. First of all, I understand that this price exceeds your expectations given the first gen car. However, I think it still represents an incredible value. I remember reading somewhere that the Bugatti Veyrons cost VW about 4 million each to manufacture yet they only sold them for about $1 million. I think the NSX right now is the same situation. Secondly, I believe the NSX was engineered and designed with all the bells and whistles knowing that they can later remove the batteries, remove the electric motors and even remove the turbos (and who knows, add VTEC). I think they sure as heck don't want to be caught in a situation like they were before where adding power would be difficult because the engine compartment was already shrink wrapped around the drive train.
Just my perspective.
You can still buy a new stereo head unit from Honda for our 25 year old NSX , so why do you think Honda will choose not to stock the battery pack after 25 years?
Even when they eventually discontinue the part you can always replace the cells in your old pack with new cells. There's plenty of companies out there already that specialize in refurbishing car battery packs. Someone will eventually do it for this car and the refurbished packs will likely be far cheaper than the cost of a new pack from Honda.
Most battery packs for cars and power tools are made using 81650 LiIon cells. 81650 cells are likely to continue being made long after the 2nd gen NSX is discontinued.
IIRC, during the last year of NSX production, the MSRP was well north of $100K, and they still lost money on every sale.
According to APEX, the new NSX is also completely hand-made (except for some welding). You expect that to be cheap?
But 3800 lb. Hmph.
According to APEX, the new NSX is also completely hand-made (except for some welding). You expect that to be cheap?
But 3800 lb. Hmph.
When I checked prices on the 911 I was looking at the 92 models only because I know my father had paid back in 92 his NSX in the $60k range, his msrp was around $66k. I am really surprised the 95 jumped up in price so much.
I guess when comparing the NSX to the 911 we would need to determine which actual model it is comparable to. If comparing to a 991S I would think the NSX price is high but being it has even more horsepower then the 911 turbo S model as well as AWD then maybe that is the 911 to compare it to.
Either way way I think that Acura did a awesome job on the design and you know when this car is actually out it is go into be incredible.
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Now that is an interesting thought, so in other words bring in a less expensive model ... I like your thinking ... I haven't been keeping up on the NSX, is there any actual talk of Acura doing that ?
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I received the Apex magazine thru the mail about the new nsx. I never heard of them and wondered why I got it.
The NSX in Japan didn't rise in price that much in 15 years - a manual coupe cost 8M in 1991, then 8.3 in 1993, 9.1 in 1997 (NA2), 9.21 in 2001, and 9.67 for the last 2 years of sales. Overseas, the exchange rate caused more price changes than the jdm price rises.
Which begs the question, which will be the base currency for the NSX price? I suspect USD which means roughly dollar for pound cost.
no way I would buy this car at £150k base price.
no way I would buy this car at £150k base price.
I would expect that Acura / Honda would set a US$ price for the initial production in 2016, then the other world markets would get a price when production availability was there.
I think the way it works is that (say) Honda UK would receive "their" pre-ordered production allocation for (say) 2017, and the price the Acura / Honda factory charge them would be agreed in the first half of 2016, when I would expect owners with pre-orders that are able to be fulfilled in 2017 are told the price. Thus the price to the end customer (in the UK) is decided by the exchange rate round about now, and Honda (UK) will be hedging funds to attempt to soften the blow of a worsening exchange rate. Currently 1GBP buys 1.5USD, so at a USD price of 150,000 the price should be 100,000 GBP, but as we all know, this won't happen because of VAT and other factors....
These type of things are never simple - it could be that a portion of the car's value needs to be priced in JPY as opposed to USD. Currently 1 USD buys 123 JPY, the most it has bought in the last 8 years (the low point was 75 JPY in October 2011). The car should be very expensive in Japan (compared to if it were available in 2011), but will it? Surely it would be suicide to over-price the car in the Japanese market, as Honda Japan well know.
Other parts of the car may be sourced from other countries, so perhaps an element of the car could be in another currency altogether.
The finances of global companies these day is very complex....
I think the way it works is that (say) Honda UK would receive "their" pre-ordered production allocation for (say) 2017, and the price the Acura / Honda factory charge them would be agreed in the first half of 2016, when I would expect owners with pre-orders that are able to be fulfilled in 2017 are told the price. Thus the price to the end customer (in the UK) is decided by the exchange rate round about now, and Honda (UK) will be hedging funds to attempt to soften the blow of a worsening exchange rate. Currently 1GBP buys 1.5USD, so at a USD price of 150,000 the price should be 100,000 GBP, but as we all know, this won't happen because of VAT and other factors....
These type of things are never simple - it could be that a portion of the car's value needs to be priced in JPY as opposed to USD. Currently 1 USD buys 123 JPY, the most it has bought in the last 8 years (the low point was 75 JPY in October 2011). The car should be very expensive in Japan (compared to if it were available in 2011), but will it? Surely it would be suicide to over-price the car in the Japanese market, as Honda Japan well know.
Other parts of the car may be sourced from other countries, so perhaps an element of the car could be in another currency altogether.
The finances of global companies these day is very complex....
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The BOM (bill of materials) of the NSX G2 are what they are no matter what country you sell in. Honda is really only going to be playing with the "margin" they want to make per country. Japan is known to PAY for quality. So selling the new NSX G2 in Japan will be about pride not margin would be my guess.
Tom
Tom
Having thought this over a little more a couple additional thoughts. I think the most bothersome thing, like a prior poster noted, may be the exhust note and the weight. I have a mild after market exhaust on my NSX and love the sound. I think if you want the performance of the turbos you just have to resign yourself to a more muffled exhaust.
As far as the weight goes - lets see how noticable it is. I'm thinking that the new NSX will not be so much a seat of the pants sports car but a sophicated GT. I plan on using the car every day; maybe its right for me. Even at the additionl cost over the Porsche and R8 I think I may prefer it. I also like the Honda/Acura reliability factor.
I'd love to get my hands on one.
Drew
As far as the weight goes - lets see how noticable it is. I'm thinking that the new NSX will not be so much a seat of the pants sports car but a sophicated GT. I plan on using the car every day; maybe its right for me. Even at the additionl cost over the Porsche and R8 I think I may prefer it. I also like the Honda/Acura reliability factor.
I'd love to get my hands on one.
Drew
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I wish we had a Time machine to see what the future's views of that old 2017 NSX will be.
The good and bad.
Those who prefer original NSX simplicity (or something else)should do just that and find/buy one.
And for those who think it needs to or can't compete with other labels/tech... just buy what you prefer and leave this one alone... until it's been out for awhile. Then you can drool, or not.
For those who want/need a 3'rd pedal (which increase involvement but slows the car down)... see how many "top performing" super cars still offer one.
Not messing with that pedal allows more time to focus on driving a faster machine.
OK
enough for now
The good and bad.
Those who prefer original NSX simplicity (or something else)should do just that and find/buy one.
And for those who think it needs to or can't compete with other labels/tech... just buy what you prefer and leave this one alone... until it's been out for awhile. Then you can drool, or not.
For those who want/need a 3'rd pedal (which increase involvement but slows the car down)... see how many "top performing" super cars still offer one.
Not messing with that pedal allows more time to focus on driving a faster machine.
OK
enough for now
I think the new NSX will be a great supercar.
That being said, Acura should have brought a different sports car back first before a $150K+ NSX. Work the publics perception up to the NSX, that way people like us and reviewers aren't confused why they are paying for a 150K NSX. If there was a $60-80K genesis of like a Acura S2000 or something first, a $150K+ sports car would make sense.
I like the car, but I believe it will primarily be purchased by us stretching our budgets to afford one (fanboys) and a couple other people who prefer Japanese cars who are rich. I can't see the supercar buyer world standing there in the valet line hearing things like Porsche...Ferrari...Lambo...Acura?
That being said, Acura should have brought a different sports car back first before a $150K+ NSX. Work the publics perception up to the NSX, that way people like us and reviewers aren't confused why they are paying for a 150K NSX. If there was a $60-80K genesis of like a Acura S2000 or something first, a $150K+ sports car would make sense.
I like the car, but I believe it will primarily be purchased by us stretching our budgets to afford one (fanboys) and a couple other people who prefer Japanese cars who are rich. I can't see the supercar buyer world standing there in the valet line hearing things like Porsche...Ferrari...Lambo...Acura?
in 1990-91 the buyers of the nsx were potential Ferrari/exotic brand x buyers who wanted to be different.....appreciated the Japanese philosophy and work ethic......the new car is more american so in that regard there will be some brand and heritage confusion...
Even more interesting will be having the crowd try to figure is which car is being driven by the real you and which by your self made 3D clone?! ; < )
fastaussie
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American designed and manufactured. this one i don't get at all, especially for a proud Japanese automaker's prized flagship...
Well the engine and drivetrain were still developed in Japan. They just happened to tune and test the car mostly in the US and of course assemble it there too. I think it's wise to cater to the market and cut costs since most of the original NSX's sales and a large majority of general auto sales are in the US. It's still under Japanese leadership and Japanese key figures, so I think it's still very Japanese while also very American. I see no drawbacks behind this intrinsically if the product is up to par and delivers.
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A huge side note is that the famed VQ V6 engine that populate the Z sportscars and other engines to the rest of the Nissan lineup are made in Tennessee. So it's not out of the norm these days:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/10/nissan-agrees-to-make-engines-for-mercedes-in-tennessee/
http://www.conceptcarz.com/articles/article.aspx?articleID=4475
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A huge side note is that the famed VQ V6 engine that populate the Z sportscars and other engines to the rest of the Nissan lineup are made in Tennessee. So it's not out of the norm these days:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/01/10/nissan-agrees-to-make-engines-for-mercedes-in-tennessee/
http://www.conceptcarz.com/articles/article.aspx?articleID=4475
fastaussie
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the American engineers asked for the turbos no? an American female designer created the final shape, the entire car is manufactured and assembled in Ohio? seems more American than Japanese by a long, long way.
would anyone buy a Ferrari made in the Carolinas? would Porsche build 911's in Texas? would Ferrari or Porsche even do that, no way in hell...
This is what so many love about Honda. The are not elitist and they are not bigoted. They are progressive and inclusive and respectful and not at all arrogant. They like to challenge the status quo. They like to challenge convention- both in engineering/design and the way they conduct business.
i have worked for Honda as a consultant and have seen this first hand. For example there are no offices and the plant manager sits in a big room with everybody else.
i like the way they teamed up in an international effort to bring this car to market. I believe there are brilliant passionate people from all ethnicities. Even from Australia
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Ferrari, Audi, Porsche,etc/ may be based in their respective lands with their factories but I can guarantee you that they did not rise to the top by keeping their talents and staff exclusively to their countrymen.
Volkswagen has factories all over the world due to their high volume. So the Germans are definitely not above this mentality either and even some Porsches are made outside of Germany via VW factories.
Also the original shape of the NSX that set precedence for the whole car seen back in 2012 was designed by a person of Japanese descent if that even matters. Christensen just oversaw the refinement of it. She may have had the power to completely redesign it, but she apparently did not.
Volkswagen has factories all over the world due to their high volume. So the Germans are definitely not above this mentality either and even some Porsches are made outside of Germany via VW factories.
Also the original shape of the NSX that set precedence for the whole car seen back in 2012 was designed by a person of Japanese descent if that even matters. Christensen just oversaw the refinement of it. She may have had the power to completely redesign it, but she apparently did not.
fastaussie
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This is what so many love about Honda. The are not elitist and they are not bigoted. They are progressive and inclusive and respectful and not at all arrogant. They like to challenge the status quo. They like to challenge convention- both in engineering/design and the way they conduct business.
i have worked for Honda as a consultant and have seen this first hand. For example there are no offices and the plant manager sits in a big room with everybody else.
i like the way they teamed up in an international effort to bring this car to market. I believe there are brilliant passionate people from all ethnicities. Even from Australia
missed it on this one Valk. i knew N-Spec would by a mile, but i figured you might get it. all valid points, but not one of them address my question.
it's not about being an elitist or a bigot. let me knock the question down a few notches to the non fancy car makers. would Chevrolet build their prized Corvette in Mexico and allow Mexican engineers to design and build it?
can you see Ford handing over the reigns for the new GT to the Koreans?
i knew you'd absolutely miss the point entirely, there was never a doubt. read my above response to Valk Aviator.
i don't mind at all about having designers from all over the world involved in the project, the more the merrier. although i'd beg to differ with you on Ferrari's way of doing things. but i'm asking the question, and i've heard others ask it before also. and as some one who has been to Japan quite a bit, worked with the Japanese on the motorcycle side of things, and who understands their way of thinking quite well, i'm seriously baffled by this move more than any other.
we're not talking about VW building Beetles in Mexico here. do you think the Mexicans are in charge of GT3 or 918 development?
with so much of the car being designed, tested, engineered and manufactured outside of Japan by so many non-Japanese in such huge roles, does the car even remain truly Japanese. the original NSX, our cars, were fully designed, crafted and manufactured in Japan, by only the very best and most deserving of loyal Honda mechanics and engineers. it was an absolute honour to be part of the team from which our cars came. and that is very much the way of the Japanese honour based society.
it blows my mind that Honda have allowed their flagship HALO car to be from somewhere other than Japan...
