Why the 2022 NSX Type-S May Be a Sham

[DJ Iceman]

Stick with me here...

Just going off the rumors (which are usually pretty accurate, if not spot-on), the NSX Type-S is going to have a very modest power boost, minor exterior tweaks, a special numbered plaque on the engine cover, and perhaps some interior tweaks like a new infotainment screen. Even if the improvements are more substantial than that (e.g. improved power and torque, better battery capacity for the hybrid system, improved handling, addition of safety systems like pre-collision braking and blind spot monitoring, etc.), this all amounts to a fairly typical MMC for any other car.

What that means is that the 2017-2018 NSX was truly the first version. The 2019-2021 NSX featured minor handling improvements, better tires, and slightly tweaked exterior features. Everything they're talking about for the 2022 is just what anyone would expect to keep the car modernized and relevant. It's *not* a Type-S.

In addition, Acura is saying the only trim level of NSX available in 2022 is the Type-S. Had they continued to sell the previous version, along with an upgraded Type-S, with a commensurate price premium, I could have gone along with it. But since Acura is saying "if you want a 2022 NSX, the *only* way we're selling it is in this upgraded form that we call the Type-S", I actually see it as nothing more than a MMC.

Finally, I just don't know what they're thinking with the "limited edition" numbering more than they've sold in the past couple of years. I may be wrong, but I just don't see the demand for the NSX (even with these little improvements) skyrocketing to suddenly sell out that many units. Again, I think they should have continued to offer the current NSX at the current price point, along with an edition of 50 or maybe 100 "Type-S" variants with all the improvements and a commensurate price premium.

I titled this post calling the Type-S a farce, and maybe that's strong language but I stand by it. It's really just the 2022 NSX. Maybe the reveal in a couple of days will prove me wrong, and the car will be so significantly upgraded as to justify calling it a Type-S rather than just the new model year. The Acura (and NSX!) fan in me actually hopes I'm wrong...

 

[tucsonsx]

I think that you are spot on. They certainly aren't going to spend a lot of money on any model on the way out especially one with such limited sales so the rationale is to use up the parts either already at PMC or previously committed to and make the dealers more amenable to buying the cars which, so far, have pretty much been bolted to the showroom floor by making then a " special edition ."

 

[Biff_Malibu]

Stick with me here...

Just going off the rumors (which are usually pretty accurate, if not spot-on), the NSX Type-S is going to have a very modest power boost, minor exterior tweaks, a special numbered plaque on the engine cover, and perhaps some interior tweaks like a new infotainment screen. Even if the improvements are more substantial than that (e.g. improved power and torque, better battery capacity for the hybrid system, improved handling, addition of safety systems like pre-collision braking and blind spot monitoring, etc.), this all amounts to a fairly typical MMC for any other car.

What that means is that the 2017-2018 NSX was truly the first version. The 2019-2021 NSX featured minor handling improvements, better tires, and slightly tweaked exterior features. Everything they're talking about for the 2022 is just what anyone would expect to keep the car modernized and relevant. It's *not* a Type-S.

In addition, Acura is saying the only trim level of NSX available in 2022 is the Type-S. Had they continued to sell the previous version, along with an upgraded Type-S, with a commensurate price premium, I could have gone along with it. But since Acura is saying "if you want a 2022 NSX, the *only* way we're selling it is in this upgraded form that we call the Type-S", I actually see it as nothing more than a MMC.

Finally, I just don't know what they're thinking with the "limited edition" numbering more than they've sold in the past couple of years. I may be wrong, but I just don't see the demand for the NSX (even with these little improvements) skyrocketing to suddenly sell out that many units. Again, I think they should have continued to offer the current NSX at the current price point, along with an edition of 50 or maybe 100 "Type-S" variants with all the improvements and a commensurate price premium.

I titled this post calling the Type-S a farce, and maybe that's strong language but I stand by it. It's really just the 2022 NSX. Maybe the reveal in a couple of days will prove me wrong, and the car will be so significantly upgraded as to justify calling it a Type-S rather than just the new model year. The Acura (and NSX!) fan in me actually hopes I'm wrong...

If you had the resources available would you buy one?

My best guess is you want one and are concerned about the viability of buying one hence the hate for a car that hasn’t even been announced yet.

All I know is it’s something most Honda enthusiast have been eagerly waiting for, and from the looks of the teaser pics it will most likely be bad ass.

Good luck with your quest thrashing something that isn’t even “real” yet.

 

[DJ Iceman]

Not sure where all the armchair psychology is coming from, Biff, but you're reading me wrong. I'd love to be proven too pessimistic, and for Acura to unveil something truly impressive on Thursday that will rejuvenate both the sales and the prestige of the NSX in the marketplace. But what's been leaked so far doesn't give me much hope, and it's sounding more like a "phone it in" last gasp for the NC1. It wouldn't surprise me if all these little changes have been in the pipeline all along, and were planned for 2022 just as part of the normal refresh cycle. But then Honda decided to pull the plug on the whole project, and instead of letting it limp along to the end, the marketing guys are trying to make the tweaks out to be more than they really are.

Either the car itself or the marketing campaign will have to be spectacular to sell 350 of them this year. I think most people who want an NC1 already have one, and the sales have steadied out at around 10 per month. Yes, there will be some initial demand from hard-core fanbois (just like when the NC1 was first released to unsustainable dealer mark-ups), but there aren't 350 of them out there with the means and/or desire to pick up an NSX Type-S. Acura had to resort to serious discounting to get the glut of NSX's out of dealer showrooms back in 2017, and I fear the same thing will happen here.

 

[ArabianOak]

I agree with one exception...the infotainment system. If the did upgrade that lets all hope and pray we can retrograde our models! lol.

The power bump will be nice but anyone who wants more power (like me) gets the SOS tune with the JB4...there is no way they will boost power to anywhere near that level, which is what they should have done in the first place to make this car the animal it truly is. Even at 600hp, what will that do for times? MAYBE a tenth or two?

 

[sbkim]

Finally, I just don't know what they're thinking with the "limited edition" numbering more than they've sold in the past couple of years. I may be wrong, but I just don't see the demand for the NSX (even with these little improvements) skyrocketing to suddenly sell out that many units. Again, I think they should have continued to offer the current NSX at the current price point, along with an edition of 50 or maybe 100 "Type-S" variants with all the improvements and a commensurate price premium.

Totally agree with you DJ Iceman. Case in point, they will produce around 100 2021MY vs 300 2022-S for the US Market. Also, "rumor" is that the base price increase about 10% ($15K ish) which sort of implies minor cosmetic upgrades vs. anything major. Who knows may be they will surprise the hell out of us in two days with a power pack option for Type S providing 100 extra HP. Similar to Nissan GTR nismo, I tend to think they will sell out of Type S. Marketing at its best.

 

[DJ Iceman]

I agree with one exception...the infotainment system. If the did upgrade that lets all hope and pray we can retrograde our models! lol.

The power bump will be nice but anyone who wants more power (like me) gets the SOS tune with the JB4...there is no way they will boost power to anywhere near that level, which is what they should have done in the first place to make this car the animal it truly is. Even at 600hp, what will that do for times? MAYBE a tenth or two?

I agree with both of your points. Regarding infotainment, putting in a more modern system (which kind of implies a bigger screen) would have a ripple effect that I think would end up causing a redesign of the entire center stack (which would be pretty expensive from a parts/supply standpoint). They could avoid that by just sticking a huge screen on a stick like other manufacturers are doing, but I think that would look horrible (and not to mention interfere with the impressive track-focused sightlines the original designers worked so hard on) so I hope they don't go that way.

And regarding power, it's not like there are tons of buyers saying "I would have bought an NSX over all the competition if only it was a little faster". I suspect Acura will eke out a tenth of a second in the 0-60 just so the marketers can say "the quickest production NSX ever" but the reality is no one really cares. The NSX has always had sufficient performance right from the start, and as you say there are easy aftermarket solutions for those who want more power, louder exhaust note, etc.

 

[drmanny3]

I agree with both of your points. Regarding infotainment, putting in a more modern system (which kind of implies a bigger screen) would have a ripple effect that I think would end up causing a redesign of the entire center stack (which would be pretty expensive from a parts/supply standpoint). They could avoid that by just sticking a huge screen on a stick like other manufacturers are doing, but I think that would look horrible (and not to mention interfere with the impressive track-focused sightlines the original designers worked so hard on) so I hope they don't go that way.

And regarding power, it's not like there are tons of buyers saying "I would have bought an NSX over all the competition if only it was a little faster". I suspect Acura will eke out a tenth of a second in the 0-60 just so the marketers can say "the quickest production NSX ever" but the reality is no one really cares. The NSX has always had sufficient performance right from the start, and as you say there are easy aftermarket solutions for those who want more power, louder exhaust note, etc.

I was thinking the same thing with respect to the interior. To change the screen size would require a lot of changes in the front dash. So I suspect that is not the case. Perhaps an improved interface? As others have mentioned on Facebook, I always run my audio through Apple so the actual interface has not been an issue for me. There is some evidence that prior to the demise of the NSX a refresh was in the works. I had heard this from some insiders last year. DJ Iceman may not be far off in thinking that the S Spec is an attempt to make the ending more palatable.

 

[Heavymetals]

They can't do a major engine change without going through EPA crap, so a minor output increase is probably correct.

Taking into consideration everything, the best spin I can think of is: Every NSX was a "limited edition". lol

IMO HONDAS error was not having an introductory model.

You either ponied up for the whole enchilada or moved on.

It is still the cheapest super hybrid and a bargain at that.

 

[DJ Iceman]

IMO HONDAS error was not having an introductory model.

You either ponied up for the whole enchilada or moved on.

It is still the cheapest super hybrid and a bargain at that.

I agree with both of those points. In fact, in a previous thread I made the case that the "base" NSX is actually the Type-S and that they coulda/woulda/shoulda offered a less-contented version at a lower price point.

Just thinking out loud, but what would the performance have been like if they removed all the hybrid stuff, made it RWD, and dropped something like a 350hp J-series engine in there?

 

[vf2ss]

While I understand the OP's point I don't think of it as being a sham, I really think it's just marketing. That, and a genuine attempt by them to "fix" now known shortcomings realized after having some time to let it stew along with user feedback (i.e. why south of 600hp, why have a beak, why sub-par infotainment, why no cup holder, etc.?). The final performance numbers might surprise us all and the fact that it will be stock (i.e. warrantied) is a huge plus for any buyer.

Marketing wise I think it's similar to when a manager wants to sell something and leaves a majority of the stock in the back, puts only a few out on the shelves, buyers notice the "few" left of product X in the sea of options so buyer thinks "This must be good ... I'd better get one before it's gone." "While supplies last" is a tried-and-true marketing technique used all the time (aka Limited Edition - speaks to rarity, exclusivity, etc.) but no matter what, business is business and the Law of Supply and Demand takes precedence over any marketing announcements which then have to take a back seat if demand at any point becomes realized.

Jackie Chan tried for years and years to break into western audiences ... early on he struck out several times the US, but took away valuable lessons learned and on his fourth try, Rumble in the Bronx, he finally hit a home run by dominating the box office and the rest is history. It's important to note that that movie isn't that much different from any of his other movies/plots/comedy/abilities/etc. up to that point ... it's just that he was finally able to dial in the right amount of everything in his toolbox to achieve marketable balance when his brand was still relatively unknown/weak a qtr century ago.


If the "final" model Type-S achieves its own 'marketable balance' donning the right look, the right power output, right amenities, right price point, etc. and then combine that with the latest flurry of social media videos (aka advertising) coming out now (instead of yrs ago when needed) praising the NSX as The Best Unknown Supercar on the Market etc. do you really think they'll stop? Perhaps the Type-S campaign is really code to save the NSX program, not give it it's final adieu.

 

[DJ Iceman]

Perhaps the Type-S campaign is really code to save the NSX program, not give it it's final adieu.

That would be awesome! Of course those who bought a 2022 NSX in large part because it's their last chance would be ticked off, but the marketers could indeed spin it as a huge success story--"Given unprecedented demand for the highest-performance hybrid sports car under $250k, AHMC has decided to continue production at least through the 2023 model year. We know our customers will be thrilled with a special new exterior color and additional enhancements to the driving experience, a new full interior carbon fiber option, and subtle improvements to the car's aerodynamics." In other words yet another new paint, some tightening of suspension components in Sport+ mode, a CF option that should have been available from the start, and a bump or fold here and there on the body panels.

 

[vf2ss]

^exactly

"Given unprecedented demand for the highest-performance hybrid sports car under $250k, AHMC has decided to continue production at least through the 2023 model year. We know our customers will be thrilled with a special new exterior color and additional enhancements to the driving experience, a new full interior carbon fiber option, and subtle improvements to the car's aerodynamics."

You really should be writing copy for their PR/marketing :applause:

 

[HKF]

Very good points DJ Iceman. I would just add maybe Honda saw what the Zanardi brought on BAT ($277k) and realize there's a real group of buyers who will pay up for anything 'limited'.

However, there were only 51 Zanardi's out of ~18,000 production NSXs - so .27%. Contrast that to the Type S: 350 out of approx 2,000 production cars, or 18% will be 'limited'. Its almost a joke to call the Type S limited.

It will be absolutely conceivable that in the future, most used NC1's for sale will be 2017's, as is now, then followed by Type S's. I'm thinking buyers hoping to get Zanardi-like returns may be disappointed.

 

[Heavymetals]

As I said, looks like every NSX was a "limited edition". lol

 

[Bricks and Bio]

I wouldn't go as far as calling the Type S version a sham

I have been in the something for our dealers at the end of the run category

If I have learned anything 2010 when I was planning on getting an LFA, the market loves limited editions and especially limited versions of small run cars (ex. LFA ring edition, New Ford GT heritage livery) so it is natural for the Acura folks to pick a number for how many of these they will build

The odd part for me is that 300 is well above the current annual sales rate

I am still guessing 625 HP and purple for the new color, and that won't be enough to push a lot of new folks into the purchase

 

[drmanny3]

When you have made the decision to end the car, it was probably not desirable to make a limited run of only 50 cars. Doing 300 helps their supply chain and keeps the factory focused.

 

[docjohn]

I agree ...every car is a special...therefore none are.......they must have needed to make all 300 to use up the supply of upgrade parts from partners.

 

[Droptopp]

They could easily bump total power to 700+/-.

Right now they use the engine management to not allow for more than the 573hp.

There is absolutely no reason they can’t leave the batteries at full output until depleted and bump the TTV6 up to 550hp.

Current electric output of:
Rear 47 hp / 109 lb-ft
Front 72 hp / 108 lb-ft

Could easily get 25% bump - same thing Tesla has done multiple times.

Will help the “worthless” performance numbers like 1/4 mile, 60-130, 100-150, etc that majority of bench racers quote.

Replacing the battery with a 3-5kwh would not take much work based on a modern battery tech. Weight could be offset with some carbon seats.

The recipe has been there all along. Let WOT be WOT - Ice and Electric - now let’s just see if the clutch holds.

If dealer gets an allocation, I am first on the list and I will order one.

If it’s just a badge and some small incremental changes, I’m more than happy with the current model and may be able to talk someone into adding a bigger set of turbos down the road.

We love it the way it is.

 

[nis350]

this is right on... the bean counters at Honda isn't going to spend big bucks on an extremely low volume/disappointing-sale car like the NSX.

So the 'type S' is a smart marketing move to lure potential buyers. I suspect that this market hype will fail if there's a huge price increase from Honda and those greedy stealers' mark-ups.

I think they should have continued to offer the current NSX at the current price point, along with an edition of 50 or maybe 100 "Type-S" variants with all the improvements and a commensurate price premium.

 

[drmanny3]

A limited run is not good from a manufacturing point given what it takes to make changes to molds and sourcing of parts. I believe the changes were planned from the beginning. What is new is the final decision to end the car. Given the demise of the car, marketing is doing the best they can given the time remaining. They are making it a S spect car which will help the final sales. It would not make sense to continue offering the old car and the new one at the same time.

Honda has never been about brutal power. It is always about finesse. It was not easy killing this car. In the end technology is going in a much more aggressive manner and Honda wants to be there. I would not be surprised to see an all electric sports car that pushes the envelop. You can do things with electric motors and software that can not be done with ICE tech. Tesla would have to hire race drivers and race focused engineers to make their cars really handle. Honda already has this expertise in house.

For those of us who belong to the old school nothing beats a screaming engine. However the future is anything but ICE driven vehicles.

 

[docjohn]

so you are saying that the demise caught them by surprise and so the type S moniker was hastily put in place to flush the PMC...

 

[sled driver]

This S upgrade is not a SHAM and is well thought out if you look at the clues. Acura will be true to its objective of precision. You will not see a fan boy GT2 wing on the NC1.You will not see 700 hp of the small prancing horses. You will get a bullet proof drive train with amazing performance at this price point. You will get a car that still turns heads and one of the best looking vehicles on the road. Only those caught in the 90's wearing mullets would argue differently.


What we do know, the S has revised facia body work which is not a rumor and would allow for more air flow. The challenge for designers/engineers is to get more air for cooling as it takes more heat to make more power, petrol or electric. On the emissions side electric motors make torque emission free. So there's where the logical place to increase performance. You will see a bump in the electric. The petrol motor will also get a boost as anyone who has a JB4 will tell you without cracking the ecu they've faked the sensor to read very small changes to fuel, boost and ignition. The revised expect another 50 real hp. My prediction is 640 combined.
The reports were also for improved handling, and I suspect braking as well. For those waiting to see if it's their cup of tea, too bad, their all spoken for.

Jimmy aka sled driver

 

[docjohn]

who told you they were all pre ordered already?

 

[drmanny3]

so you are saying that the demise caught them by surprise and so the type S moniker was hastily put in place to flush the PMC...

yes I believe some if not all the changes were planned for. The end of the car became a leadership decision.