Why is the Porsche Cayman better then the NSX

[shiri]

I am sorry, i should put in i was aiming at build quality, but if you would have read the post completely, you would have seen i was going on about build quality in the first place.

Hey I did read the whole post, you even said that Porsches 911s (not porches - you sure you used to work for them?) were way overpriced for such a high production car (when was the last time anyone bought a brand new NSX at sticker price?).

There are so many variations of Porsches built since the 60s and 70s, at least car enthusiasts have been blessed to have tried so many (classics like the 944 and 959 as well as the 911 will not go away any time). You cannot expect such exotic cars to have a build quality of a Bentley, or the reliability of a Toyota. You are essentially paying for all-out sports cars.
Nobody said that interior design was their main priority (they do follow a style that is undeniably Porsche).
Compared to Alfa Romeo, Detomaso, Maserati, Lotus and other exotic brands, Porsche (as well as Ferrari) at least has been very active despite their lack of involvement in F1 (except Ferrari of course).

But saying that a "Ferrari NSX" would've been the best Ferrari ever made is a seriously ignorant comment at best.

 

[shiri]

No, its the one with the 80's Accord instrument cluster and late 70's 928 dash design.

Actually I don't find anything wrong with having an 80's Accord designed interior as long as it works. Its the car I'm most concerned about.
But hearing people claiming that the NSX's interior is still better than some of the later Porsches/Ferraris/whatever must be blind!

 

[shiri]

I still take the 360 Modena over that porsche :smile: To anyone who doesn't know much about car, your porsche is the same as all other porsches on the road but 360 Modena is something else.

 

[zahntech]

The NSX has better build quality than a Bentley and is as reliable as a Toyota! so yes I can expect that and that's why I will not consider buying another German or Italian car in the future.


"Quality" means different things to different people, some people think that "Quality"="Fancy" I personally do not..for me "Quality" means it will still look good and work well in 10 years..all of the European cars I have owned did not hold up well over time and use.....but if you can afford to get a new one every 2 years than I guess it really doesn't matter...JZ

 

[gtr]

Here is a quick pic of my Boxster.

I'll give you blue book value for that Boxter :wink:

 

[dynatac]

Actually I don't find anything wrong with having an 80's Accord designed interior as long as it works. Its the car I'm most concerned about.
But hearing people claiming that the NSX's interior is still better than some of the later Porsches/Ferraris/whatever must be blind!

I think the interior is important in it's own right, being that the driver will be having to see it everytime. It must be satisfactory both visually and ergonomically every time. Otherwise how can someone enjoy the car 100 percent?

I love the NSX interior and think the layout is perfect, but as others have shown, sometimes it just isn't for them seeing as to how they go and replace it with carbon fiber trim here, chrome bezels there, white faced gauges etc.

But to each their own.

 

[qirex]

sweet looking car cerb!!

Cant go wrong w/ seal grey.

The Gt2 already has the K24 (larger, but more lag) turbos. 550 is an easy number with stock internals. 600+ needs some motor strengthening.

Cerb, keep your car stock, its already more than you can handle.
One of my fav moments "learning" my boxster, was when i got familiar with rear engined oversteer. Pretty cool!

 

[CerberusM5]

Very nice GT2, love the wheels and roll bar

BTW......

Why is that turbo upgrade so much cash??? Are they just price gouging because it's a GT2?? It doesn't seem like it should be 20K PLUS labor (labors gonna be stupid $$$ because of the engine coming out and what not). I mean it's not like your adding turbos to a N/A car. Even with fuel management, intercoolers, etc 20K is way outrageous.

I know cost is relative, but getting ripped off is still getting ripped off!!

Also.....holy off topic

Thanks jadkar!

The 640 kit includes new turbos, exhaust, intake, software as the basic parts with a few other minor parts. There is no doubt there is price gouging on Porsche parts. I thought a new exhaust for the NSX was expensive; a Europipe, which is one of the mufflers of choice is $5k and a software reflash is $3,500. This is steep, but then again you can realize almost 75 hp with just those two parts. I am prepared to bend over when it comes to service. :frown:

 

[CerberusM5]

Clearly Sandy couldnt care less. Obviously what matters to him the most is what matters to him the most.

Good on him.

Very true and thanks.

I am just not ready for Ferrari cost of repairs at this time.

 

[CerberusM5]

I'll give you blue book value for that Boxter :wink:

Give me a few years to think about it, okay? :smile:

 

[CerberusM5]

sweet looking car cerb!!

Cant go wrong w/ seal grey.

The Gt2 already has the K24 (larger, but more lag) turbos. 550 is an easy number with stock internals. 600+ needs some motor strengthening.

Cerb, keep your car stock, its already more than you can handle.
One of my fav moments "learning" my boxster, was when i got familiar with rear engined oversteer. Pretty cool!

I have a feeling I will have the urge for more boost real soon. It is inevitable. However, I plan to spend some time on the track to see how it handles powering out of the corners. Time will tell, but I will definitely keep the upgrades mild.

How are you enjoying your TT?

 

[shiri]

The NSX has better build quality than a Bentley and is as reliable as a Toyota! so yes I can expect that and that's why I will not consider buying another German or Italian car in the future.


"Quality" means different things to different people, some people think that "Quality"="Fancy" I personally do not..for me "Quality" means it will still look good and work well in 10 years..all of the European cars I have owned did not hold up well over time and use.....but if you can afford to get a new one every 2 years than I guess it really doesn't matter...JZ

We have a 16 year old Mercedes Benz that has only had minor services and still going strong. It has done 234,000km including interstate trips. The build of that thing is just unbelievable. We've had Volvos and BMWs that have had problems. All our Japanese cars including a Honda Accord have had some problems ranging from alternators to air-conditioning to 3-time transmission replacements (though none of mine has). Its just luck of the draw.
I guess if you can still see a 30 year old car still running as well as the first day then that's quality right there.

 

[AndyH]

We have a 16 year old Mercedes Benz that has only had minor services and still going strong. It has done 234,000km including interstate trips. The build of that thing is just unbelievable. We've had Volvos and BMWs that have had problems. All our Japanese cars including a Honda Accord have had some problems ranging from alternators to air-conditioning to 3-time transmission replacements (though none of mine has). Its just luck of the draw.
I guess if you can still see a 30 year old car still running as well as the first day then that's quality right there.

I don't know about the quality of Benz 16 years ago. But today, their quality has gone down. Even Huyndai has higher ranking than the Benzo does :frown:

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005089

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Hey I did read the whole post, you even said that Porsches 911s (not porches - you sure you used to work for them?) were way overpriced for such a high production car.

My original sentence was: “I've seen them porches (911 series) in bits, and to me its nothing more then a VW Golf, in a different shape, at least, nothing like how the NSX is build.
I repaired a climate control unit for one of the porsche guys..bla bla…”

I NEVER said I have been working for Porsche.

(Notice the c... if you wanna point out spelling flaws, please learn to read first)

(when was the last time anyone bought a brand new NSX at sticker price?).

When was the last time YOU bought a Porsche in Holland?
(FYI, a 911 was exactly the same price as a new NSX)

But saying that a "Ferrari NSX" would've been the best Ferrari ever made is a seriously ignorant comment at best.

So how many F-cars have you seen with over 100.000 miles on the clock, driving around without any trouble at all?

We have a 16 year old Mercedes Benz that has only had minor services and still going strong. It has done 234,000km including interstate trips. The build of that thing is just unbelievable.

Mercedes Benz is currently rated as the manufacturer with the most cars returning back to the dealer with trouble after delivery to the customer.
Back then…yes….now…no…

 

[shiri]

My original sentence was: “I've seen them porches (911 series) in bits, and to me its nothing more then a VW Golf, in a different shape, at least, nothing like how the NSX is build.
I repaired a climate control unit for one of the porsche guys..bla bla…”

I NEVER said I have been working for Porsche.

(Notice the c... if you wanna point out spelling flaws, please learn to read first)

WTF? Since when was I pointing out your spelling problems? You keep saying I didn't read your entire post but here I am talking about examples of build quality that you might not have experienced. And I was wrong to say that you worked for Porsche, you gave the impression that you had inside information but apparently you don't.

When was the last time YOU bought a Porsche in Holland?
(FYI, a 911 was exactly the same price as a new NSX)

I'm from UK and I'm not a Porsche guy. So how much is a Porsche in Holland?

So how many F-cars have you seen with over 100.000 miles on the clock, driving around without any trouble at all?

Go to F-Chat and find out. Sure to be a lot more than the number of NSXes in production.

How many NSXes have you seen with over 100,000 miles on the clock, driving around without any trouble since 1990?

Mercedes Benz is currently rated as the manufacturer with the most cars returning back to the dealer with trouble after delivery to the customer.
Back then…yes….now…no…

Show me evidence of this in Holland, and what sort of trouble? Financing? Wrong colour? Too big? What? You're not very clear please explain.

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Troll troll troll...

Sorry, not going to waste bandwidth with you, not going to get info for you (not your servant), also, this is way off topic.

Pbassjo gave you an award allready. Have fun with it.



Wat een randdebielen zijn er toch op het net.......

 

[jadkar]

Wow...that's all I have to say.

I haven't posted on this forum in quite some time. I just had a baby, and between the birth and my other projects I've been pretty much MIA. What I have just witnessed however has blown me away. It seems as though within the past year this site has gone from extremely informative to "my C*@k is bigger then yours!!"

This was a very 2nd grade topic in which I wanted to get some opinions and comments....THAT'S IT!! It started out OK, and then turned into something that brings me back to my Junior High School days.

I respect comments and I don't mind hearing them all, but when people start going back and forth it makes me sick. I mean my wife signs on as JADKAR sometimes and reads what's going on in the NSX world. Last night she came up to me and said, "What the hell is wrong with all you guys on-Line. You sound like a bunch of whining girls......with the attitudes you guys have it's amazing that any of you even became successful enough to own those cars, whatever they are!!" You know she has a point, most of us are probably professionals of some sort, and are actions and words are far from it.

Again, I was merely comparing the lack of general admiration for the NSX to the excitement of a new Porsche that’s very similar in numbers to the NSX. I wanted to know if others have noticed this. Now, I never said the NSX is better then the Cayman. I never said "Porsche is crap", even though I may have said some particular parts are. Porsches are obviously great sports cars and nobody will ever be able to take that away from them. They just bring different things to the table...period!!

I obviously have a slanted view toward the NSX, but I do for ALL Hondas (look at my sig). As far as I’m concerned I strongly believe that back in the early 1990s Honda had one of THE BEST sports cars period. Comparing it to a GT2, 1970 928, or any other car is just plain stupid. Other car manufacturers DIDN'T have a car to compare back in the early 1990s, they had to catch up and they did. I think Hondas BIGGEST mistake was not redesigning it over the years. Porsche has had 4 different 911s since the NSXs inception (964, 993, 996, 997 ) along with several different variations of the same car. Anyone that says "well Honda wasn't making enough money on the NSX to justify a redesign" is an ASS. Porsche was about to go under, they were losing money left and right, yet they STILL developed newer models. Honda F*@#ed up!! With the million Accords & Civics they were selling they should have done something with the NSX. The few Porsche, Ferrari, BWM, & Benz customers that made the switch most likely lost all respect when Honda left the NSX out to dry, and YES Honda left the car out to dry! I have a lot of respect for Honda but THEY were their own demise when it comes to the NSXs success, and IMO they screwed up bad. They have a habit of ditching good designs, the CRX come straight to mind.

Regardless of what other people drive or wish to drive the fact still remains that the NSX over the years has held up extremely well, and nobody could ever argue that. The car still performs strongly, it’s not a record setter anymore, but still for only 290HP it’s damn good! One could also argue that for the price of a high model 911 you could easily bring the NSX up to 755rwhp and give it far better handling / braking then almost all of today’s sports cars. That’s a mute point though; it’s all OPINION, and PREFRENCE. There is no right, wrong, or better car.

In closing, I’m sure if all of us had the means we would have a garage like Jay Leno’s, with a collection of all of the worlds greatest cars. We would have an NSX, GT2, M5, McLarren F1, Z06, etc. all parked next to each other as testaments to man’s ingenuity, and a love for our hobby. However, most of us don’t have that luxury and we have to choose what we like the best, at that particular time in our life. So bashing someone else, or arguing over what car someone chooses to sell just doesn’t make any sense. After all, if we all drove the same car life would be really boring!!


This thread should now be closed

 

[NSX-Racer]

But saying that a "Ferrari NSX" would've been the best Ferrari ever made is a seriously ignorant comment at best.

That "ignorant comment" is about the same that was written by the car press here back in 1991 and even nowadays in some NSX reviews. But of course you are way smarter than all these ignorant journalists (and of course than all these dumb NSX drivers here on this board).

And of course you'll find a lot of NSXs here on this board with way over 100,000 miles (some with a remarkable track history) that still run without major problems. You'll hardly find a Ferrari owner (and we have some even here on this board) that can say the same for his car (especialy when he drives it on track regularly). You find one example here , just scroll down to chapter 50 in the left column and click on the small pic.

As you have nothing written in your profile I must assume that you don't own either car, have never driven on a track and have no real life knowledge (unless you proof the opposite).

 

[qirex]

I have a feeling I will have the urge for more boost real soon. It is inevitable. However, I plan to spend some time on the track to see how it handles powering out of the corners. Time will tell, but I will definitely keep the upgrades mild.

How are you enjoying your TT?

I'm loving it, its in the shop getting evo billet diverter valves and the evo billet shift link installed. Its true, "hooked on boost" is utterly addictive. It took me exactly 1 week to feel like my TT wasnt that fast. The only ways o remind myself were to watch the other cars getting really small in my rear view, or driving my other 2 japananese cars. The Z was really funny - b/c you hear this great engine noise and all...but you dont go any faster!

BTW, when you factor in the lower production volumes and super high quality $5k for a europipe aint that bad. Porsche exhausts are pretty complex as well, since they have to make SO many turns. Not like your typical FR car....Have you seen the quality on their stuff? But yes if you can pay $150k for a car, the aftermkt assumes you you can pony up for parts too.

Keep you car stock until nov. I'll be out there in vegas for SEMA. We're working on a couple of very exciting projects. I'll break you off a piece when i can say more...

 

[zahntech]

Hey CerbM5 injoy your porsche, It looks fun...Peace out! :smile:

 

[NSXLuvr]

I'm glad the discussion has calmed down a bit.

Just to recap:
1. CerebrusM5: Not a troll IMHO.
2. Shiri: Troll. I know his from s2ki.com

I have nothing new to add to the discussion. Carry on. :tongue:

 

[satan_srv]

Is the Cayman like a Boxter in that there's no hood? I always thought Boxters were lame just because you couldn't pop open a hood and admire the engine.

Yeah it's the same, no top access. I can't imagine service is cheap...even by Porsche standards.

 

[nsxtasy]

WTF? Since when was I pointing out your spelling problems?

Since when? I would say it was since you posted this:

Porsches 911s (not porches - you sure you used to work for them?)

Are you now claiming you never posted that?

So how many F-cars have you seen with over 100.000 miles on the clock, driving around without any trouble at all?

Go to F-Chat and find out. Sure to be a lot more than the number of NSXes in production.

There are 20,000 Ferraris around with more than 100,000 miles on them? Oh, come on. Stop making such silly statements, silli.

How many NSXes have you seen with over 100,000 miles on the clock, driving around without any trouble since 1990?

Quite a few, actually. You should come to NSXPO 2005; you'll see quite a few there, too.

Remember, NSXs accumulate miles at a higher rate than Ferraris. The median mileage per year on NSXs is about 5,000. With Ferraris, it's about 2,000.

Last night she came up to me and said, "What the hell is wrong with all you guys on-Line. You sound like a bunch of whining girls......with the attitudes you guys have it's amazing that any of you even became successful enough to own those cars, whatever they are!!" You know she has a point

Indeed she does.

The BEST thing that can occur with car boards like NSXprime is that (a) they are used as a means to exchange good, useful, accurate, practical information about our cars, and (b) they are a source of enjoyment for the participants.

Unfortunately, sometimes a troll intervenes - someone who is not satisfied with enjoying his own car (whatever car that may be), but feels the need to attack others who like a different car. I happen to think such individuals are quite sad, because cars CAN be fun, but not for them; they seek satisfaction by trying to spoil the enjoyment that others have for their cars. Fortunately, such trolls are often easy to spot - especially when they make silly (or silli ) statements that are so obviously untrue.

Just to recap:
1. CerebrusM5: Not a troll IMHO.
2. Shiri: Troll.

 

[Da Hapa]

Since when? I would say it was since you posted this:

Are you now claiming you never posted that?

There are 20,000 Ferraris around with more than 100,000 miles on them? Oh, come on. Stop making such silly statements, silli.

Quite a few, actually. You should come to NSXPO 2005; you'll see quite a few there, too.

Remember, NSXs accumulate miles at a higher rate than Ferraris. The median mileage per year on NSXs is about 5,000. With Ferraris, it's about 2,000.

Indeed she does.

The BEST thing that can occur with car boards like NSXprime is that (a) they are used as a means to exchange good, useful, accurate, practical information about our cars, and (b) they are a source of enjoyment for the participants.

Unfortunately, sometimes a troll intervenes - someone who is not satisfied with enjoying his own car (whatever car that may be), but feels the need to attack others who like a different car. I happen to think such individuals are quite sad, because cars CAN be fun, but not for them; they seek satisfaction by trying to spoil the enjoyment that others have for their cars. Fortunately, such trolls are often easy to spot - especially when they make silly (or silli ) statements that are so obviously untrue.

Great post. I couldn't agree more.

 

[CerberusM5]

Hey CerbM5 injoy your porsche, It looks fun...Peace out! :smile:

zahntech, I am trying to drive it as much as possible, even to run simple errands. I am sure after a couple of months I won't take it everywhere. But for now I am having lots of fun. Thanks and take care.