FYI, we thought you'd like to know that we have a very rare set of TODA Billet Type-C camshafts in stock that are like new on clearance: http://scienceofspeed.com/clearance_used/NSX/
Why don't more owners run cams?
- Thread starter L_RAO
- Start date
Cool!
According to Toda’s website (http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/product/cam/c30shaft.html) those give you 11.0 mm of lift on the non-VTEC lobes and 12.5 mm in VTEC on both the intake and exhaust sides. Could you measure the thickness of a VTEC and of a non-VTEC lobe along the two axes in the picture and post your measurements?
It would be great to get independent confirmation that Toda’s published lift specs are correct.
anyone running the toda cam for any lenght of time? if so, which valve springs?
Has anyone talked to Comp Cams?
I have. As of a year ago, they were not interested in cams or valvesprings for this platform.
Wouldn't hurt to ask again....
Wouldn't hurt to ask again....
I have been in discussion with Webcams and they are interested in doing some (camshafts). I won't even address them about it again until the new year due to excessive workload. I'm using a different supplier for my springs and retainers.
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I've been down this road as well.
Comp Cams = no interest whatsoever.
Web Cams = will do a hardweld or a regrind, but will not cast new ones.
I was in contact with Nikos of SVM, but there were too many dark clouds surrounding his company.
Comp Cams = no interest whatsoever.
Web Cams = will do a hardweld or a regrind, but will not cast new ones.
I was in contact with Nikos of SVM, but there were too many dark clouds surrounding his company.
There is a place that makes custom cams out here. Some time ago I spoke to a guy about making cams from scratch and they said they would. They do all the machining and hardening in house. He said they have done crazy one off stuff for import drag cars and others. I can see if I can start that dialog again. I have some interest myself anyway.
There are plenty of places that make cams. The issue becomes (a) how many will they want you to order, and (b) how good is their ability to replicate the cold-hardening process that Honda used?
Okay, makes sense. Doesn't hurt to ask I guess.
Webcams have done some insane stuff for the 4 bangers. I'm even upgrading to the sheepy ones for my crx (insane specs) that webcams makes. Many of the top outlaw and sfwd guys use them. They have a good track record of reliability. I will be in further discussion with them in the next few months to try a set with some custom specs. I won't endorse them if there is any lack of quality whatsoever. In due time.
Another reason why my engine build has taken so long is that I am designing a variable cam timing mechanism and am modifying my OEM cams to mate up with it. I'm using OEM valves too. Measuring V2V and P2V clearance on my workbench for both cam profiles while varying cam timing has taken seemingly FOREVER. Measure a couple of times, etc.
I've posted some info on this in the past here... I was inspired by Rob (DAL Motorsports) to do this.
Also, my Series 2 EMS will vary the controls for up to 4 cams simultaneously, but I will go ahead and switch over to the new Infinity due to my other need for more inputs and outputs (for my other project with sequential/compound turbos).
The only thing my engine will lack compared to a modern one is DI! Oh well.
I've posted some info on this in the past here... I was inspired by Rob (DAL Motorsports) to do this.
Also, my Series 2 EMS will vary the controls for up to 4 cams simultaneously, but I will go ahead and switch over to the new Infinity due to my other need for more inputs and outputs (for my other project with sequential/compound turbos).
The only thing my engine will lack compared to a modern one is DI! Oh well.
VTC will be a very cool add-on!
DI: Well, with enough $$$ anything is possible, I suppose.
Ambitious indeed! I like that
I forgot the chap that did the same thing to his F20C and picked up a boatload of midrange with boost, but it was a very taxing endeavor. I hope that setup works well for you. The Infinity will be a good piece of hardware for your needs.Ah, nevermind. Since I've had the past few weeks off, I went ahead and started putting my engine together.
The VCT will have to wait. I already have a bunch of parts to convert over to chain-driven variable cam timing gears... but I've had too many pioneering projects for my first engine build. Gotta get this one done and save some stuff for the next one. Cams, gears, and belt are all Honda OEM for now.
The VCT will have to wait. I already have a bunch of parts to convert over to chain-driven variable cam timing gears... but I've had too many pioneering projects for my first engine build. Gotta get this one done and save some stuff for the next one. Cams, gears, and belt are all Honda OEM for now.
Resurrecting this thread for my build. Question: OEM 3.2L springs and retainers on Comptech cams? [MENTION=12723]greenberet[/MENTION] has been running these for almost 20 years without issues... [MENTION=4282]docjohn[/MENTION] blew up his engine using Comptech springs, so maybe aftermarket is not the way to go. If I keep the rev limiter at 8,100, are the springs really an issue?
Springs are designed to a compression height. If the cam gives more lift than the spring can take...... No beuno.
My engine is still going strong so the combination of stock valve springs and Comptech cams has held up about 24 years now. However - when I bought Comptech's internal engine modification package in the winter of 1994/95, they weren't offering their own valve springs yet. They drilled the valve spring pockets in the cylinder heads a bit deeper by some amount.
Regrinds I'm guessing? Got any specs or dyno? I'm interested... assuming this is maximized for NA, yes?
You can use for NA or Turbo but you would see better Results on a NA motor. I can get the specs but dyno numbers I don’t have. Bisi is the one that tunes for me and I’m sure he would have the numbers. They are regrinds and I offer hard welding with bigger centers or a billet for roller rockers. I have a stage1 that would be maybe 5 to 7hp over a typeR.
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At the moment we duplicate Toda C and Comptech cams. Those are not regrinded (which is not the best idea), we do them from the full mills, not cast them. The first batch is ready by spring and will cost maybe 60% of the newprice from Toda. And the very streetable Comptech cams are out of production long time ago. I had 345 PS with headers, exhaust, cam sprokets, aem v2 and 11,5:1 CR on stock 3,0 displacement.
Currently I have a BC kit and 3,5i and I run Toda C cams in my engine and one cam got damaged and it was not the fault by the engine builder or me when racing the car. My tuner had the 2nd time a problem with TODA quality. The intake cam from the rear bank got shaved off so the VTEC lob is not higher anymore then the non VTEC lobes. It damaged my rocker arms, the Toda oil pump gear is only for display now and the crankshaft got worn down by one hundredth mm. The abrasion from the cam material was like flour. Now I bought that one cam new from Toda again and after I receive it I have a full set again and will duplicate it.
btw: did not know NSX-R use different valve springs than standard NSX. The cams and red line is the same I thought.
Currently I have a BC kit and 3,5i and I run Toda C cams in my engine and one cam got damaged and it was not the fault by the engine builder or me when racing the car. My tuner had the 2nd time a problem with TODA quality. The intake cam from the rear bank got shaved off so the VTEC lob is not higher anymore then the non VTEC lobes. It damaged my rocker arms, the Toda oil pump gear is only for display now and the crankshaft got worn down by one hundredth mm. The abrasion from the cam material was like flour. Now I bought that one cam new from Toda again and after I receive it I have a full set again and will duplicate it.
btw: did not know NSX-R use different valve springs than standard NSX. The cams and red line is the same I thought.
I am going with Comptech cams, so I'm sticking with what [MENTION=12723]greenberet[/MENTION] is using. 24 years of reliability is what I'm after. But, it seems that I would have to get the heads cut to fit the springs? Also, Andreas, are you using your original 3.0L springs? Cutting the heads worries me, though I suppose I can just have spacers made if I want to go back to OEM cams.
Based on the JDM parts catalog, it appears that the NA1 NSX-R used the same valve springs as the regular NSX. This makes sense because the cam profile and redline was the same between the two trims. I did the same comparison between the NA2 NSX and NA2 NSX-R and they also share the same valve springs. Even more interesting is that the NA1 and NA2 valve springs also appear to be the same. I've always understood from NSX lore that the 3.2L used stiffer valve springs, but based on the part numbers, that's not the case.
Even stranger is that USDM NSX models have a different part from the JDM, and no listed part number for the inner intake valve spring? More of a mystery...
NSX-R (NA1):
Intake: 14761-PR7-A01 or 14761-PR7-A02 (outer)
14751-PR7-A01 or 14751-PR7-A02 (inner)
Exhaust: 14762-PR7-A01 or 14762-PR7-A02
Regular NSX (NA1)(JDM):
Intake: 14761-PR7-A01 or 14761-PR7-A02 (outer)
14751-PR7-A01 or 14751-PR7-A02 (inner)
Exhaust: 14762-PR7-A01 or 14762-PR7-A02
Regular NSX (NA1)(USDM)
Intake: 14761-PR7-A12 or 14761-PR7-A11 (outer)
No Part Number (inner)
Exhaust: 14762-PR7-A12 or 14762-PR7-A11
Based on the JDM parts catalog, it appears that the NA1 NSX-R used the same valve springs as the regular NSX. This makes sense because the cam profile and redline was the same between the two trims. I did the same comparison between the NA2 NSX and NA2 NSX-R and they also share the same valve springs. Even more interesting is that the NA1 and NA2 valve springs also appear to be the same. I've always understood from NSX lore that the 3.2L used stiffer valve springs, but based on the part numbers, that's not the case.
Even stranger is that USDM NSX models have a different part from the JDM, and no listed part number for the inner intake valve spring? More of a mystery...
NSX-R (NA1):
Intake: 14761-PR7-A01 or 14761-PR7-A02 (outer)
14751-PR7-A01 or 14751-PR7-A02 (inner)
Exhaust: 14762-PR7-A01 or 14762-PR7-A02
Regular NSX (NA1)(JDM):
Intake: 14761-PR7-A01 or 14761-PR7-A02 (outer)
14751-PR7-A01 or 14751-PR7-A02 (inner)
Exhaust: 14762-PR7-A01 or 14762-PR7-A02
Regular NSX (NA1)(USDM)
Intake: 14761-PR7-A12 or 14761-PR7-A11 (outer)
No Part Number (inner)
Exhaust: 14762-PR7-A12 or 14762-PR7-A11
Yes, I'm still using my original 1991 USDM Acura NSX valve springs.
When Comptech came out with their own valve springs, I called them up to ask whether I should buy a set and they said no, that's not necessary. With the Comptech valve springs, Comptech camshafts could be installed without sending the cylinder heads to Sacramento for the valve spring pockets to be drilled deeper.
When Comptech came out with their own valve springs, I called them up to ask whether I should buy a set and they said no, that's not necessary. With the Comptech valve springs, Comptech camshafts could be installed without sending the cylinder heads to Sacramento for the valve spring pockets to be drilled deeper.
