Wholesale prices dropping quickly now.

[dc1edh]

I keep replying to this thread, but my posts never show up. I get the message that the post will show after a moderator approves it. Who is moderator on this thread or forum? My posts have no foul language, are not controversial, etc. I'm not sure what's going on, but it's frustrating.

 

[PorknBeanz]

Last week I saw a pretty well loaded (CF interior, ceramic brakes, CF spoiler, interwoven wheels) 2017 valencia red with clean title and 5150 miles auction for $101,500, plus auction fees. It was being sold by Honda Finance Corp, so probably a lease return or a repo.

 

[dc1edh]

For some reason, my replies are still not showing up on this thread and others, but let's try this again:




I don't think people looking to purchase a new NSX are going to cross-shop with a C8, just like people looking to buy a Porsche Cayman don't cross-shop and look at a new NSX. The price points are too far apart. People shopping for a new C8 will most likely stay within that price range plus or minus $10K, maybe $20K. Now there may definitely be people cross-shoping a new C8 with a used NSX, and that could affect used NSX prices if the NSX owners get desperate and want to sell quickly. However, I think that desperation would be the exception and not the norm.


From all of the new NSX owners that I've talked to, which admittedly is only a handful, none of them cross-shopped with a Corvette. Some of them previously owned Corvettes (mostly Z-06s) but wanted to get something more exotic, refined, and with better build quality. Before I ordered my NSX back in August 2019, I considered the new C8...for all of 10 seconds because there is a lot of bang for the buck, but I didn't want to have a car that would be mass produced to the tune of 35K cars per year and have a rear end that looks like a Camaro. There's definitely no denying that the C8 will be a success and will appeal to the masses, but you won't be seeing a Ferrari owner going to trade in his 488 for a new C8.


People looking to purchase a new NSX are going to cross-shop with cars like a 911, R8, McLaren 540c (in other countries), McLaren 570S/GT, Nissan GT-R, etc. People that can afford to spend $140K+ on a car are looking for something a bit more rare than a Corvette. I did seriously consider a Porsche 911 and an Audi R8, but eventually settled on the NSX because of the underlying technology, build-quality, reliability, and every day drivability. Porsche 911s, unfortunately, are a little too common and suffer from a certain stigma of the driver's being stuck-up that I didn't want have. Many people that see a 911 don't know the difference between a Carrera, GTS, Turbo, etc. It's almost like a Corvette where you can get a Grand Sport that looks like a Z-06, but even people with untrained eyes won't know the difference between a base Corvette, a Grand Sport, or a Z-06. Don't get me wrong, I think Porsche makes some awesome machines, and I would love to have a 911 GT2 RS to play with.


Bottom line is that I don't think the C8 will make a dramatic dent in new NSX sales, and I don't think it will have a significant impact on used NSX pricing either unless people start to get desperate to unload their cars. I would hope, however, that those people won't be in any financial difficulty that would force them to unload their cars at rock-bottom prices.

 

[Z06nsxcts]

For some reason, my replies are still not showing up on this thread and others, but let's try this again:




I don't think people looking to purchase a new NSX are going to cross-shop with a C8, just like people looking to buy a Porsche Cayman don't cross-shop and look at a new NSX. The price points are too far apart. People shopping for a new C8 will most likely stay within that price range plus or minus $10K, maybe $20K. Now there may definitely be people cross-shoping a new C8 with a used NSX, and that could affect used NSX prices if the NSX owners get desperate and want to sell quickly. However, I think that desperation would be the exception and not the norm.


From all of the new NSX owners that I've talked to, which admittedly is only a handful, none of them cross-shopped with a Corvette. Some of them previously owned Corvettes (mostly Z-06s) but wanted to get something more exotic, refined, and with better build quality. Before I ordered my NSX back in August 2019, I considered the new C8...for all of 10 seconds because there is a lot of bang for the buck, but I didn't want to have a car that would be mass produced to the tune of 35K cars per year and have a rear end that looks like a Camaro. There's definitely no denying that the C8 will be a success and will appeal to the masses, but you won't be seeing a Ferrari owner going to trade in his 488 for a new C8.


People looking to purchase a new NSX are going to cross-shop with cars like a 911, R8, McLaren 540c (in other countries), McLaren 570S/GT, Nissan GT-R, etc. People that can afford to spend $140K+ on a car are looking for something a bit more rare than a Corvette. I did seriously consider a Porsche 911 and an Audi R8, but eventually settled on the NSX because of the underlying technology, build-quality, reliability, and every day drivability. Porsche 911s, unfortunately, are a little too common and suffer from a certain stigma of the driver's being stuck-up that I didn't want have. Many people that see a 911 don't know the difference between a Carrera, GTS, Turbo, etc. It's almost like a Corvette where you can get a Grand Sport that looks like a Z-06, but even people with untrained eyes won't know the difference between a base Corvette, a Grand Sport, or a Z-06. Don't get me wrong, I think Porsche makes some awesome machines, and I would love to have a 911 GT2 RS to play with.


Bottom line is that I don't think the C8 will make a dramatic dent in new NSX sales, and I don't think it will have a significant impact on used NSX pricing either unless people start to get desperate to unload their cars. I would hope, however, that those people won't be in any financial difficulty that would force them to unload their cars at rock-bottom prices.

Nothing will make a dent in new NSX sales. They sell 8 a month...

MC

 

[drmanny3]

I agree concerning the new C8 Corvette. There certainly is a lot of value for the money. The beauty of cars is there is something for everyone out there most of the time. I had pretty much given up on having another sports car. They are really non utilitarian for sure. At my age I am trying to stay alive and enjoy the fruits of my labor. While I followed the debut of the new NSX, I pretty much lost interest once I decided that no ICE based cars were on our horizon. I kind of eyed the Porsche Turbo S as it appears to be a vehicle that stands at the top of the pile of 911s. I liked that it had pretty much had all the desired options. Though I learned that Porsche can be optioned to the hilt. I did like the look and thought if I ever did get a sports car it should be the 911 Turbo S. I also eyed the R8 V10+ as an exclusive car that looks great. When by chance we could not find an electric car to replace our Chevy Bolt we began to really explore what was available. We were prepared to pay cash up to say around $160k. Drove both the S and X model of the Tesla, but found them both to be too large. The new Tesla 3 and upcoming Y were ugly. Ordered a Volvo XC40 Recharge but it was delayed. Almost went back to a new Chevy Bolt, but GM did not make many changes to the car. So we were really scratching our heads as to what we would get. Got excited about the new Tycan but hated the fact that it was a 4 door vehicle. And while Porsche (VW) promises an infrastructure of charging stations, my experience in having had 4 electric cars is that other than Tesla, getting your car charged while traveling is still a pain in the ass. My wife did not like the Jag I Pace, nor the Audi E Tron. So as we wondered what to do, the idea that the Acura NSX was a Hybrid began to sound interesting. When I saw the car (2017 Nouvelle Blue) that I ultimately got, it was love at first sight. Kind of the way it should be. I thought the car was cheap given what it was. This is not a car that we can carry our big dog or stuff from Costco. However it is a point of excitement and pride, the NSX lives on and defines a new generation. Now that I have it I realize that the Porsche Turbo S would have seemed non special within a short period of time. The R8 still seems exclusive, but I am not a fan of Audi. The McLaren is wild looking but I think will be dated before too long. The NSX seems timeless as it did when it first came out back in 91 and 2002. When I arrived home with the NSX, it was the first time my wife had really seen the car. She looked at the blue and said it was beautiful. She could care whether it had a 12,8,6, or 4 cylinder engine. We are happy campers with our Plugin Hybrid and our Sports car.

 

[drmanny3]

Audi announces that the next generation R8 will be a Hybrid

Falling under the Audi Sport umbrella, the performance division of the four rings is being tasked with doubling its sales in the next three years. And in order to do that, they’ll need to get into a new market. Take, for instance, the RS6 Avant, which is now available for the first time in the U.S. Is the company setting things up to bring the R8 to a greater market too? Perhaps. But with greater market comes greater regulations. Audi Sport Managing Director Oliver Hoffman explains, “There’s no decision yet regarding the technology and platform of the next-generation R8. But with this next generation, we have to fulfill all the regulations worldwide. That means it will be a car with an electrification part. But the current model is the base model for our customer racing and we have to fulfill that demand in the future.”

So, in short, there will be a new iteration of the R8, even though sales have been less than stellar. And in looking at today’s market, there’s a lot of competition out there, so why not offer something different in that price category? What about that part where he says “a car with an electrification part”? This is just what has piqued so many people’s interest in the upcoming vehicle. You see, there haven’t been great sales in Europe when it comes to this model with just a bit over 1,000 is sold in Europe on an annual basis. That being the case, the division has focused more on the R8 GT3 and GT4 race car models. And because they’ll be focusing on honoring this model in particular, the new R8 will likely be a hybrid instead of being fully electric. The R8 shares a lot of design and components with the exotic Lamborghini Huracan. So, if we use this vehicle as a case study, in order to maintain its position in the market, Audi will want to avoid downsizing the V10 to a turbo V8, where it’ll be on the same level, if you will, as a Ferrari or McLaren. So, in order to do this, the R8 and Huracan would retain the V10 and just add electric to it, making it a hybrid model (ta-da!). What does adding electric to a V10 do exactly? When it comes to meeting all the regulations worldwide, while also increasing the power to meet customer expectations, going electric is the way to go. With electrification, you can easily increase the full system power. This will, in turn, create an issue with weight and sound. Namely, the Audi sport team will have to work on a way to keep the weight of the vehicle down, while adding an electrification system to it. And in terms of sound, with electrification, the powerful sound of an engine churning out 800 horsepower will be all but lost to the gentle hum of electricity.Very Interesting.



The Acura NSX was and continues to be ahead of the pack. The rest are now following.

 

[The King]

I've never been a fan of VW, and since their big diesel ---kup, I would definitely not buy anything they make. Not sure why anybody that has concerns for our deteriorating environment would give them a cent.

 

[jkoyasak]

I don't think people looking to purchase a new NSX are going to cross-shop with a C8, just like people looking to buy a Porsche Cayman don't cross-shop and look at a new NSX. The price points are too far apart. People shopping for a new C8 will most likely stay within that price range plus or minus $10K, maybe $20K. Now there may definitely be people cross-shoping a new C8 with a used NSX, and that could affect used NSX prices if the NSX owners get desperate and want to sell quickly. However, I think that desperation would be the exception and not the norm.

I am currently cross shopping a 2020 NSX with a 2020 C8. My main criteria is a 2 seat car. I haven't seen a C8 yet and have never seen a NC1 NSX in the wild. I like the Indy Yellow NC1 as I currently have a 1997 Spa Yellow. I only see two Corvettes in my area - a C2 and a C7. Considered the new 2020 Tesla Roadster, but the delivery and customer service experience we had during our Tesla Model 3 Performance purchase was terrible.

 

[Esprit9]

I am currently cross shopping a 2020 NSX with a 2020 C8. My main criteria is a 2 seat car. I haven't seen a C8 yet and have never seen a NC1 NSX in the wild. I like the Indy Yellow NC1 as I currently have a 1997 Spa Yellow. I only see two Corvettes in my area - a C2 and a C7. Considered the new 2020 Tesla Roadster, but the delivery and customer service experience we had during our Tesla Model 3 Performance purchase was terrible.

I was able to be in the passengers seat of a C8 on Monday for a few miles (not on track) and can provide some “rough” comparisons ratings 0-10:
NC1 / C8

Looks/design
9 / 7

Performance*
(*street w/ very little time in both)
8 / 7

Sound
3 / 5

Driving comfort / seats
8 / 9

Interior looks
6 / 4

Interior tech and options
6 / 10

Interior space and function
2 / 9

Trunk-Frunk Storage space
3 / 8

Price* (new vs new for what you get)
*Used prices are getting better on NC1 so I’ll compare that below *(used NC1 vs new C8)
4 / 9
* 6 / 9









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RSO 34]

I am currently cross shopping a 2020 NSX with a 2020 C8. My main criteria is a 2 seat car. I haven't seen a C8 yet and have never seen a NC1 NSX in the wild. I like the Indy Yellow NC1 as I currently have a 1997 Spa Yellow. I only see two Corvettes in my area - a C2 and a C7. Considered the new 2020 Tesla Roadster, but the delivery and customer service experience we had during our Tesla Model 3 Performance purchase was terrible.

I’m not a corvette fan.

Actually, I wasn’t a corvette fan - until now .....

 

[drmanny3]

I am currently cross shopping a 2020 NSX with a 2020 C8. My main criteria is a 2 seat car. I haven't seen a C8 yet and have never seen a NC1 NSX in the wild. I like the Indy Yellow NC1 as I currently have a 1997 Spa Yellow. I only see two Corvettes in my area - a C2 and a C7. Considered the new 2020 Tesla Roadster, but the delivery and customer service experience we had during our Tesla Model 3 Performance purchase was terrible.

These are such different cars. The C8 will be mass produced for the next 3 to 4 years, which means you will see around 100,000 of these cars. The engine in the C8 is reliable but really old technology. They have done pretty much everything that can be done to a pushrod engine. They are torquey which is good, but never the less are not as sophisticated as an overhead cam driven engine. Starting in year two you will see upgraded engines putting out more horsepower. I suspect they will finally offer an overhead cam engine that will drive up the price by $15,000 or so. That will make the car that much better. Beyond that Chevy will look for ways to differentiate the car. At some point I expect a Z version which will add a whole lot of horsepower making the car more exclusive. So within a short period of time <4 years there will be 100,000 plus C8s. Nothing wrong with that at all. If the car does it for you then by all means go for it. There is a reason why more expensive cars are available. It is not that they are necessarily faster or prettier, just different. Porsche has the 911 Turbo which is a car that has been around for many years. The engine keeps disappearing in back as it moves ever so closer to the front of the rear axle. Not sure it will make it but I think it probably will. Porsche probably sells like 10,000 to 15,000 911 sports cars of various stripes a year or more. Still much fewer than Corvette. Then of course you have all the other cars from Audi R8 and McLaren, and others. A lot of people complain about the resale value of the NC1 NSX. Trust me, check out the prices on used Corvettes. Very ugly. And it is not just that the C8 is coming out. Corvettes have dropped big time for many years. When a new model comes out the car will even fetch a premium price for a while. But in the end GM will flood the market with as many as people will buy. The initial excitement will cease and the price will cave. Having said that, pretty much all cars depreciate. As was stated above in a previous post most all people will price shop within a range of value. You are suggesting that you see both cars as similar enough to consider either one for possible purchase. Sorry but that just doesn't compute. I Corvette will sell pretty much at MSRP and can be loaded up to around $85,000. The NSX can be loaded up to around $200,000 Are you really telling us that you consider these to be similar cars? Or are you thinking that Acura will discount the NSX by $115,000 so that you have an equivalent price point? The NSX is essentially a hand built car. The Corvette is a production vehicle. Apples and Oranges.

 

[drmanny3]

I would be the first to admit that the new corvette looks very nice. Having owned probably 6, with two of them new off the showroom floor, I would suggest looks do not necessarily translate well over a period of time.

 

[The King]

You're looking good Bob, the car less so. Cheap looking interior, ugly steering wheel, side intakes, and black wheels. Not seeing the rear end in your picture doesn't exclude it from the ugly list also.

 

[drmanny3]

Yea, I would agree the rear end is very busy and butt ugly. Having said that I think it is great that Corvette finally came out with a mid engine car. The more people who have sports cars the longer the category will endure.

 

[jkoyasak]

As was stated above in a previous post most all people will price shop within a range of value. You are suggesting that you see both cars as similar enough to consider either one for possible purchase. Sorry but that just doesn't compute. I Corvette will sell pretty much at MSRP and can be loaded up to around $85,000. The NSX can be loaded up to around $200,000 Are you really telling us that you consider these to be similar cars? Or are you thinking that Acura will discount the NSX by $115,000 so that you have an equivalent price point? The NSX is essentially a hand built car. The Corvette is a production vehicle. Apples and Oranges.

Thanks for your insights. I am considering both cars equally as the original budget was for a 2020 Tesla Roadster which costs more than NSX I think. What I am looking for is a 2 seat car that would be comfortable on a road trip with enough cargo space for two people over a week long trip. I am aware of the resale values of Corvettes, but did not base my decision on it. Since both cars are within the budget, my decision will not be based on price, but which one I think I would enjoy driving the most and would work the best for me. I am leaning toward the NC1 though, because personally I think it's the better looking car. How can one test drive a NC1 ? The only local Acura dealer to have one in stock was reluctant to let me test drive it. The Acura dealer closest to me said they weren't planning on having a new NSX on the showroom floor in the foreseeable future.

 

[jkoyasak]

Esprit9 and RSO 34 - Thanks for the review and insights.

 

[RyanRA]

How can one test drive a NC1 ?

Are you in the Northeast?

 

[Z06nsxcts]

For a car that won’t be cross shopped the C8 generates a lot of words on this forum...

MC

 

[Z06nsxcts]

I’m not a corvette fan.




Actually, I wasn’t a corvette fan - until now .....

View attachment 163961

View attachment 163962

Is that the rapid blue?

How does that color look in person?

MC

 

[RSO 34]

Is that the rapid blue?

How does that color look in person?

MC

I'm not sure of the exact name but I will say it was the only color out of 6 that I liked and it looked great in person.

 

[RSO 34]

You're looking good Bob, the car less so. Cheap looking interior, ugly steering wheel, side intakes, and black wheels. Not seeing the rear end in your picture doesn't exclude it from the ugly list also.

It doesn't check all the boxes that a true "exotic" or "supercar" would but although the price isn't "cheap" I look at it as a "disposable" track car since there will be a lot of them and parts will be easy to get.

My NSX has 170,000 miles now with over 14,000 track miles over the course of 123 track days and I am less inclined these days to risk bending it due to scarcity of replacement parts.

 

[drmanny3]

It doesn't check all the boxes that a true "exotic" or "supercar" would but although the price isn't "cheap" I look at it as a "disposable" track car since there will be a lot of them and parts will be easy to get.

My NSX has 170,000 miles now with over 14,000 track miles over the course of 123 track days and I am less inclined these days to risk bending it due to scarcity of replacement parts.

Well let’s acknowledge that there are very few cars that would have held up to the abuse you have bestowed on your car. That is extraordinary.

 

[drmanny3]

Thanks for your insights. I am considering both cars equally as the original budget was for a 2020 Tesla Roadster which costs more than NSX I think. What I am looking for is a 2 seat car that would be comfortable on a road trip with enough cargo space for two people over a week long trip. I am aware of the resale values of Corvettes, but did not base my decision on it. Since both cars are within the budget, my decision will not be based on price, but which one I think I would enjoy driving the most and would work the best for me. I am leaning toward the NC1 though, because personally I think it's the better looking car. How can one test drive a NC1 ? The only local Acura dealer to have one in stock was reluctant to let me test drive it. The Acura dealer closest to me said they weren't planning on having a new NSX on the showroom floor in the foreseeable future.

If you were considering the Tesla roadster I am assuming you have had electric vehicles. We have had 4 all electric cars. If you are leaning towards the NSX know that it is one of the only affordable hybrid two seaters. The Porsche sells for 1 1/2 million. While the other is a Ferrari for 2.5 million. Audi will come out with a hybrid R8. Just not sure when. The C8 will probably hold a bit more because of the Frunk. Having said that you can get enough stuff in the back of the NSX to make a stab at a weeks worth of clothes. Kind of like your 97 but without any room behind the seats. If you want to test drive a car send me a private message and I will give you a contact. The NSX is one of the most comfortable cars I have sat in. Much better than my 2001 NSX. The ride is really great. The NSX is going to be night and day different from the C8.

 

[jkoyasak]

Are you in the Northeast?

I'm actually in Northern CA. Maybe if I stop at the Acura dealer with my spa yellow they would be willing to let me test drive a NC1 instead of "well, we can't find the keys...".

 

[jkoyasak]

If you were considering the Tesla roadster I am assuming you have had electric vehicles. We have had 4 all electric cars. If you are leaning towards the NSX know that it is one of the only affordable hybrid two seaters. The Porsche sells for 1 1/2 million. While the other is a Ferrari for 2.5 million. Audi will come out with a hybrid R8. Just not sure when. The C8 will probably hold a bit more because of the Frunk. Having said that you can get enough stuff in the back of the NSX to make a stab at a weeks worth of clothes. Kind of like your 97 but without any room behind the seats. If you want to test drive a car send me a private message and I will give you a contact. The NSX is one of the most comfortable cars I have sat in. Much better than my 2001 NSX. The ride is really great. The NSX is going to be night and day different from the C8.

Thanks again for the comments as they are truly appreciated. Yes, we also have had 4 electric cars. Our first was a 2012 Nissan Leaf, then a 2013 Honda Fit EV compliance car (my favorite electric and Honda paid for all the insurance) and we currently have a 2016 Chevy Volt and a 2018 Tesla Model 3 Performance. The Tesla is nice, but the build quality, sales and service are less than ideal. The one bright spot is the Tesla Mobile Service that comes to your house.

I do like the size of the NC1 better than the C8 and both my wife and I like the looks of the NSX much better than the C8. I also like the service department of the local Acura dealer better then the Chevy dealer down the auto mall. I'm more than likely going to end up with the NC1 though and I do agree with your assessments of both cars. Thanks again !