This forum has been slow lately, so I was wondering what's everyone's ideal dedicated track car. (on a budget). is it a civic? integra? miata? AE86 :biggrin: or something else?
what's your ideal track car?
- Thread starter polar
- Start date
As this track forum is exclusively for NSXs (as it's written at the top: Main NSX Message Forums (stay on topic))- I'd say of course: Mine (after sorting out this annoying overheating problem)!
27k with mods or parts car, and you can buy a used early nsx and not do any mods on it and beat the crap out of it, now this post is on topic :biggrin:
NSX.polar said:
That's what I've driven for 10,000 actual track miles!Was this a trick question?
polar said:
Hi Gary,
Well, this is familiar territory. Although- you mentioned a fixed budget at 27K including mods and spares but you didnt' state if this was just for personal HPDE use or for sanctioned racing (SCCA, etc...) and what your specific performance requirements/metrics really were (e.g. what you are trying to accomplish as a driver).
From experience, given the specific vehicles you listed and the gist of what you said so far personally I would opt for the FE RWD Miata over the FE FWD civic. Technical reasons for my reccomendation abound (four-wheel independent wishbone suspension, four-wheel disc brakes, a power plant frame, light vehicle weight, and optimal weight distribution) but really above all else there is a very active Miata community in our area, lots of parts/resources/shops/events/cool guys at our disposal, and I think you would have a blast on the track and see a lot more seat time along side real racers = more smiles. :smile:
There is a HPDE at PIR on Sunday.. and there is a race at Mission I may well be leaving for at 5am tommorow morning if my alarm gets me up. Get some seat time in to help you decide. Just among us is a well prepped civic and three miatas available for you to A-B. I guess you can take my 1.8L Miata out if you want so long as it comes off the first session somewhat intact (dents are ok) but a running engine with oil would be best unlike someone that gave me assurances last month.
Seriously thou, 27K is a healthy track/race budget which if managed well can open a lot of doors and secure some good, serious seat time for awhile. Not at NSX thou. IMO that's just dumb as it wouldn't leave room for any incidentals. I don't know your exact plans... another idea you may have not considered is that it seems to be a buyers market for race cars.
If the idea of having 5 part cars in your back yard doesn't appeal to you and your shooting higher end or planning on spending a higher percentage of that budget on just the car itself... I dunno.. then in that range and if it is truely off-road only then you may just consider purchasing an existing well prepped E-Prod vehicle or race-ready WC car with lots of instant deprication and proven lap times as opposed to DIY. I've seen quite a few good offerings in the 22-27K range as of late.
Regards,
John
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nsxtasy said:NSX.
Was this a trick question?
This is not a trick question :smile:
Hi John
Thanks for the info, currently I have a 93 civic si used as beater car, it's in decent condition, and I'm still going through the dilemma of selling it and spend the money on the nsx, or keeping it for HPDE event, but my real buget probably only allows me to change the suspension/bushing/tires/brakes (maybe around 4k?). the 27k is just a number i put up in order to keep this post on topic :biggrin:
I know that spending the money on NSX won't make me a better driver. I like miata and RWD but the civic seems like a great car too (alot alternative engine choices and still can fit 4 people)
I would love to get a ride from you in the miata on the track in the future.
:smile:
I have debated this topic in my head countless times. IMHO if you are building a HPDE car- a miata turbo is a great/cheap option. If you are looking at club racing- SM or E36m3 is a great package.
At times I have though of getting a 993 track car(a bit of stretch on the budget), but a sorted NSX IMHO is a superior track toy. And in the long run cheaper to maintain.
At times I have though of getting a 993 track car(a bit of stretch on the budget), but a sorted NSX IMHO is a superior track toy. And in the long run cheaper to maintain.
Depends on what tracks you want to run. In a tighter 2 mile track, I could whip even FI NSX's with my turbo teg. If you plan on running on a longer track with higher top straightaway speeds, then you will need something with a bit more. (NSX, Z06, RX-7, Supra) these can all be found below $25k.
As of late, believe it or not, a real capable short track car has been the Mini Cooper S. These things dominate on short tracks, and are even holding their own on longer ones!
Before we can answer fully, we need to know what tracks you plan on running. There is a big difference between autocross, a 2 mile, and a 4 mile. And within those tracks, there are many variables such as elevation (torque) tight off-camber turns (weight, suspension etc) as well as your budget.
As of late, believe it or not, a real capable short track car has been the Mini Cooper S. These things dominate on short tracks, and are even holding their own on longer ones!
Before we can answer fully, we need to know what tracks you plan on running. There is a big difference between autocross, a 2 mile, and a 4 mile. And within those tracks, there are many variables such as elevation (torque) tight off-camber turns (weight, suspension etc) as well as your budget.
heard 944 TURBO's are great track cars :biggrin:
Agreed. The standard Formula Mazdas are a particular bargain; about 1/2 to 1/3 the price (and O&M cost) of the Radicals and Sohrs. The cheap purchase price is due to the popularity of the new Pro Formula Mazda series, which in it's 2nd year, is fielding 40+ cars per race and will be a support race at the Montreal F-1. All the former teams have dumped their Standard FM's for a song and gone to the pro car.
More to the point, if you really want to go 10/10ths and you screw up (crash) it's a whole lot cheaper in a dedicated race car than an NSX or any nice street legal car.
Of course you can't pick up chicks in a race car like you do in an NSX.........
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Too bad you have limited the budget to $27kpolar said:
Since there were Radicals and Sohrs mentioned I will offer my .02
ARIEL Atom is my choice:
http://www.arielmotor.co.uk
http://www.openwheelers.com.au/videos/Top_Gear_Ariel_Atom_2_Full_segment.mpg (this video may be a re-post, but still is a MUST SEE!)
http://www.openwheelers.com.au/videos/ArielAtom2_Taupo_Circuit_high.mpg (pretty sure that this video is not a re-post)
I am talking to the factory about a custom built chasis.
Cost more than $27k new.
Used prices in the UK are "reasonable".
According to the factory there is only 1 Atom in the USA at this time.
Street Legal (with the proper certification)92_white_0650 said:Of course you can't pick up chicks in a race car like you do in an NSX...
Oh, to stay on NSX Topic- Just like the NSX: 2 seats! A race car with room for a passenger :tongue:
Pretty cool...!
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Radical is my current choice. There is nothing like a low mass high down force vehicle. Unfortunately, it is not street legal. If I want a race car that I can drive to the track, Ariel Atom is the one. BTW most of these cars are made in England and the exchange rate is un-favorable for people living in the US. It is over $1.9 USD to ₤1.00.
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Taj said:Radical is my current choice. There is nothing like a low mass high down force vehicle. Unfortunately, it is not street legal. If I want a race car that I can drive to the track, Ariel Atom is the one. BTW most of these cars are made in England and the exchange rate is un-favorable for people living in the US. It is over $1.9 USD to ₤1.00.
Actually some of the SR3's are Road Legal.
And some are left hand drive.
EURO Specs, but potentially could be imported as a "kit" and with mods be made legal for your state of destination. CA CARB could be a BIG problem! One down side to a street legal RADICAL is that the TBO (Time Between Overhaul) is rather short and extremely costly. Some reports are 30 - 50 hours race time and $6,500 - $9,000 to refresh.
Pic of SR8-
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polar said:
93 Civic is very potent. The lap time record for Spec Miata at Thunderhill is around 2:09s (Justin Hall might chime in). The lap time record for H4 car in Thunderhill is 2:07s. H4 is similar to ITA. Little more power than the miata and about the same weight. So I can comfortably say they are both very comparable. Out of the box though, a miata will out handle the civic. But in race trim, definitely not.
We sell competition suspension package in different stages for your civic, NSX or any cars. I am most familiar with Honda and BMW since I raced them with success and still involved.
50 hours race time is a lot - equals about 8,000 track kilometers or in my case 2 to 3 seasons - I'm pretty sure I needed at least the same amount of bucks for the NSX (clutches, brakes, windshield, work etc.), not to speak of tires of course.Cruzrmm said:
NSX-Racer said:
I agree, for race time it is not too bad. Most articles and owner reports state that the time is closer to 30 hours rather than 50 but the real consideration is hours on track compared to hours on the road.
Considering average costs of refresh and high hours of road time.....50 hours of road use would be very expensive (i.e. 70mph X 50 hrs = 3,500 miles / $8,000 = $2.28 per mile. And 100 miles of road use is still not cheap (i.e. 70mph X 100 hrs = 7,000 miles / $8,000 = $1.14 per mile). There are not too many roads and hiways that you can average 70mph so your actual cost per mile may actually be higher per mile (less miles traveled). Remember, these costs pertain to the engine only. Actual costs of operation include all other wear componants- tires being one of the biggest additional expenses.
You also need to keep a slush fund just in case you "bump" something at speed. Sh!t happens....
Of course these projections are averages only and mixed with a little speculation. I do not think that many of the RADICALS are used primarily on the roadways. I have heard that they are VERY uncomfortable and unforgiving on legal roads. They shine on the track which is the intended design purpose.
Cruzrmm said:
The refresh cycle of the Radical is basically a function of the engine size. Currently, 4 engines are available for the SR3, 1,300cc, 1,400cc, 1,500cc and 1,500cc turbo. All 4 engines use the same engine block from Suzuki's Hyabusa. Other than the 1,300cc engine, the other three engines are stroked. I've seen couple or them blown up personally at the track with a hole in the block, so far I haven't seen any 1,300cc having the same problem. It is hard to believe that Radical would use a block design for say 190 hp and squeezes close to 340 hp out of it with a turbo. One of my friend’s 1,500cc blew up with 80 track hours and a 1,300cc is still running strong with close to 120 hours. On the other hand, I've seen a turbo blew up in the second session of a track day right after the engine was refreshed. Anyway, you are right about the costly refresh. It’s not $6,500 to $9,000, it’s more like $2,500 to $5,000. Most likely, those numbers are for damage or repair.
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There are some lovely options here. The Atom has to be my favorite, but is probably not a logical option for Polar.
If you already have the Civic, go for it. But understand that it would be cheaper for you to buy a pre race prepped Civic than try to do all the work on your own personal vehicle. And I would not expect my race vehicle to serve as a daily driver.
If you already have the Civic, go for it. But understand that it would be cheaper for you to buy a pre race prepped Civic than try to do all the work on your own personal vehicle. And I would not expect my race vehicle to serve as a daily driver.
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