Although quite a ways off yet, you're the first one on the tentative standby list for 2010 NSXPO Las Vegas. (I kid for now.)
What would you recommend I use for tires and pads?
- Thread starter tpagannsx
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Although quite a ways off yet, you're the first one on the tentative standby list for 2010 NSXPO Las Vegas. (I kid for now.)
I agree 100% with you. I do canyon runs every weekend with my friend's (Lotus) and me on the NSX. We also go really fast but the first time we went to the track its was like totally different. For one you push the car way harder since you know that if you spin out you will not hit a rock or go of a cliff. I also thought that it would be the same but no. Plus you could actually focus on driveing and not on is looking out for cops or other cars. I might go to the track day also maybe ill see you there.
Not to pry - Do you have insurance to cover your car if you crash at the track? Call your insurance agent and ask if you go to a track if you have any coverage for damages. They may need to talk to the underwriters to make sure. Can you risk losing your car? (I had 5 cars, so it didn't worry me)
Why do I ask? I didn't call my insurance agent.....I went to the track......and crashed my NSX. Did I say crash? Sorry, I meant totaled it. I said exactly the same things you'r saying. I can drive my car to the extreme and I can do this, no problem. WRONG. Don't worry about which tires or any of that crap (make sure your car is safe), think about driving and staying within your driving capabilities. You have 0 track experience. Canyon runs and street driving mean nothing on the track. Not liking the truth? I wish someone would have at least taken a few minutes of my time to give some advice and ask some questions that I have asked you. If you go to the track, take your time and never drive by your emotions.......drive with the correct head. I got caught up in the moment and felt like I was the greatest driver out there and was having the best time of my life and then it turned to one of the worst....all in a matter of moments.
Good luck and be safe,
John :biggrin:
Steve,
Don't forget, the funds can only be used to subsidize NSXCA members actvities. It's the members only rule that must be applied when scheduling events.
Do crashes happen? Some photos of my 14k mi 97. Schit do happen
FYI: My State Farms policy only has one exclusion.....
6160F RACE OR SPEED CONTEST EXCLUSION
IN CONSIDERATION OF THE PREMIUM CHARGED FOR YOUR POLICY, IT IS AGREED THERE IS NO COVERAGE AS TO ANY MOTOR VEHICLE WHILE USED IN A PREARRANGED RACE OR SPEED CONTEST.
According to my Agent and State Farm's Underwriters (APR 2009) HPDE would not fall under this exclusion and they would have to cover it.
The key being RACE or SPEED CONTEST. No timing or race and it's cool, at least once then they would drop me.
6160F RACE OR SPEED CONTEST EXCLUSION
IN CONSIDERATION OF THE PREMIUM CHARGED FOR YOUR POLICY, IT IS AGREED THERE IS NO COVERAGE AS TO ANY MOTOR VEHICLE WHILE USED IN A PREARRANGED RACE OR SPEED CONTEST.
According to my Agent and State Farm's Underwriters (APR 2009) HPDE would not fall under this exclusion and they would have to cover it.
The key being RACE or SPEED CONTEST. No timing or race and it's cool, at least once then they would drop me.
This is a very good post. A person needs to carefully assess the financial impact in the event of a bad thing happening. Also, the attitude of the driver is extremely important in preventing bad things from happening.
You are not out there competing for Piquet's seat in F1, you are learning to drive your car on the racetrack. The first time out, you'll be overwhelmed with just trying to learn the "language" of the track -- where the flagging stations are, what the flags mean, what is the line of the track, where to start braking, how to come off the brakes, and what seems like a million other things all coming at you.
One other piece of advice. You don't know what is under the hood/sheet metal of the other cars on the track. You can look at two NSXs and they can look identical but one has a SC and another 100whp, so don't have pre-conceived notions of "That car shouldn't be able to pass me". Leave your ego/pride at the gate before you get on the track and focus on learning.
Yep, my policy said the same thing. Very grey area (my lawyers words). I was told that a discussion was made around the table and they all thought I was racing, so it went straight to the investigation dept. I said I wasn't (yeah, we go to the track to putt around the course) and they can't prove it, since there was no race and or there was none I was praticing for. No timing equipment and all I was doing was being instructed to be a safer driver (remember, we go to the track to putt around). I was told they have 1 year to decide and they would let me know. I gave them the tracks number, the clubs number who I attended with and all my friends who went with me. Everyone was to to call me if they were contacted by the insurance company to inform me of what was said, asked, etc. Funny, during the 6 mos. of the so called investigation, not one person was called. Wait, I made a call to my attorney and forced them to either deny my claim and get sued for not covering me or fix my car, as I had coverage during the accident. They decided to cover me and pay for my car to get fixed. I fought them and made the car get totaled (it was the same money to fix my car or sell it for salvage and pay me the difference). Happy ending! Well, not exactly.........my rates for the NSX on my policy was going to go from 840 per year to almost 3000 per year. Thanks, but no thanks. Switched to another insurance company and paid more premiums than normal for 3 years and then my rates went back to semi normal prices. Call your insurance agent before going and see what they say. One friend attending did this and they said they were going to cancel him because they were unsure of what his intentions were with the car in general. WTF? He found another insurer and added a binder for track usage. If you play, you may have to pay.
YMMV,
John
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Ditto on ANYTIME'S and Liquid's good input. When I went to my first track event with my NSX at Big Willow on March 23, 2009, I had a specific strategy in mind...
One: Don't do anything to get hurt. Safety is #1!
Two: Don't hurt the car
Three: Drive within my means and leave "Speed Racer" at home
Four: Have fun
I also watched countless videos on Youtube. There are some excellent instructional videos on just about any track in the country. I was a little shocked at how easily some tended to spin-out their NSX. Some hit walls, tire barriers, or ran off into the gravel- eek! I investigated the reasons why and learned quite a bit about traction, rev matching, and trying to not upset the car's balance (braking, turning, downshifting, etc.). I am happy to report I achieved all four of my goals that day.:biggrin:
Just like going to work each day vs. being on a track, driving can be a relatively safe endeavor if you use a proper combination of precaution and skill. Oh, and one more thing. The NSX is so 'at home' on the track. What amazing handling!
Steve
PS. John, I sent you a PM regarding any plans you may have on a So Cal road trip. Drop me a memo when you can. Thanks.
Wow John:frown: sorry to see the car that way,when was that? Thanks for showing our track niave members that the cars are not "glued" to the track.The driver and his inputs are many times more important in having a save and fun day than worrying about the "best" max performance tire/brakepad ,biggest wing ect ect. So in response to the op ? fresh pads and fluid,eat/drink/rest....listen to your instructer ,and don't stomp on your brakes ,or abrubtly take you foot off the throttle in the middle of a turn!:wink:
Hey Guys (VAMPNSX, LIQUID, AND ANYTIME)
I really want to thank you gentlemen for your schooling on what to expect at the track....seriously. But I want you to know....I'm not out there to race anyone....just want to test my abilities in a somewhat safe enviroment. I won't have to worry about my emotions (I don't know how that comes into play), on coming traffic, cliffs, cops, bad road conditions....etc. Just out there to have fun and be safe. Ok...SAFE....that seems to be the key factor. So....on that note....wouldn't you think by me having a good track tire and pads help me to be a little more SAFE? I will be looking out for others on the track. I could see if I was SC or Turbo'd....and of course it being my first time on the track. To be honest....the NSX to me is just a little under powered.
VAMPNSX, really hope to see you out on the track. You live close to Willow....right? ANYTIME, hope to meet you real soon, in person. Do you go to the SCA meets? I may have seen you before. LIQUID, you're in MA, maybe I'll see you at the 2010 NSXPO in Vegas.
Again....hoping to hear from more track drivers like Stuntman, Ryneen,....etc.
Thanks,
Tony
I really want to thank you gentlemen for your schooling on what to expect at the track....seriously. But I want you to know....I'm not out there to race anyone....just want to test my abilities in a somewhat safe enviroment. I won't have to worry about my emotions (I don't know how that comes into play), on coming traffic, cliffs, cops, bad road conditions....etc. Just out there to have fun and be safe. Ok...SAFE....that seems to be the key factor. So....on that note....wouldn't you think by me having a good track tire and pads help me to be a little more SAFE? I will be looking out for others on the track. I could see if I was SC or Turbo'd....and of course it being my first time on the track. To be honest....the NSX to me is just a little under powered.
VAMPNSX, really hope to see you out on the track. You live close to Willow....right? ANYTIME, hope to meet you real soon, in person. Do you go to the SCA meets? I may have seen you before. LIQUID, you're in MA, maybe I'll see you at the 2010 NSXPO in Vegas.
Again....hoping to hear from more track drivers like Stuntman, Ryneen,....etc.
Thanks,
Tony
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If you really want to drive on slicks the first time taking your NSX to the track then go ahead and do it. You seem to be pushing aside the knowledge of many people here who have more knowledge and experience than you. I used to track my NSX and made the switch to Hoosiers after about four events. The car handled completely different than when driven on street tires. But I'm not a pro, so why should my opinion count anyway. I would suggest that you invest in driver education prior to getting heavily involved in track days. I took the Skip Barber three day course twice in the past 20 years and may do it again. It's a lot less risky than crashing the NSX.
John,
It's painful to see the pics you posted. I'm glad your insurance company eventually paid-up. What happened, or put another way, what did you do wrong that led to the crash? Did you hit a wall or barrier of some kind?
A few questions:
-How long have you owned your car?
-How many track or autocross days have you done ever?
-How old are you?
Like others have said, if you have never tracked your car, you don't yet understand how you havn't even scratched the surface of your or the car's abilities. I like driving on canyons, but it's a place where you should drive under your/the car's limit and just have fun. Take it to the track to push the car and yourself and learn how to drive better, you shouldn't push the car on the streets anywhere near where you would spin out.
I would probably recommend just running a good set of street tires until the bug bites you enough for you to buy a dedicated set of track wheels.
Good Street Tires:
Yokohama Advan AD07 & AD08
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
Toyo R1R
=great, grippy, communicative tires that are popular for street-classed Time Attack/HPDE drivers.
R-Compounds:
Yokohama Advan A048
Nitto NT01
Toyo R888
The NSX-R front bar is pretty good as well as considering a good set of suspension like KW V3, HKS Hypermax III, JRZ RS, etc...
Carbotech AX6 (Panther Plus) are pretty good pads, as are Hawk HP+. Get some good fluid in your brakes like ATE SuperBlue or the like, and stainless steel lines and go have fun.
-How long have you owned your car?
-How many track or autocross days have you done ever?
-How old are you?
Like others have said, if you have never tracked your car, you don't yet understand how you havn't even scratched the surface of your or the car's abilities. I like driving on canyons, but it's a place where you should drive under your/the car's limit and just have fun. Take it to the track to push the car and yourself and learn how to drive better, you shouldn't push the car on the streets anywhere near where you would spin out.
I would probably recommend just running a good set of street tires until the bug bites you enough for you to buy a dedicated set of track wheels.
Good Street Tires:
Yokohama Advan AD07 & AD08
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
Toyo R1R
=great, grippy, communicative tires that are popular for street-classed Time Attack/HPDE drivers.
R-Compounds:
Yokohama Advan A048
Nitto NT01
Toyo R888
The NSX-R front bar is pretty good as well as considering a good set of suspension like KW V3, HKS Hypermax III, JRZ RS, etc...
Carbotech AX6 (Panther Plus) are pretty good pads, as are Hawk HP+. Get some good fluid in your brakes like ATE SuperBlue or the like, and stainless steel lines and go have fun.
Stuntman!!!
Its good to hear from you. This is the kind of info I was looking for. I know its going to be alot different on the track than doing canyons.
Here are the answers to your questions:
1. About 5 yrs
2.Autocross....about 8 times in my Porsche and 3 times in my NSX (no track experience with a car....only karts about 13 or so track sessions.)
3. I'm 48
Shane at Autowave suggested the same....great guy. I'm looking forward to listening to everything the instructor has to say about the track and how to drive on it. And a HUGE CONGRATS on the FX 1:18 time. Is that run on youtube yet?
Hoping real soon to go FI....not sure whether to go Turbo or SC....any input would be appreciated.
Thanks again for your input and hoping to meet you someday.
Tony
Yes, that's true about the membership requirement. Thanks for clarifying that. If the price is right as was with the New Year karting event you organized, then the cost of membership can be moot.
I think there's a good chance you will have your eyes opened at your track day and will want to do it more often - be warned
Thank you for the compliment, the whole FX team did an amazing job with the car. The in-car footage is here:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/FXMD-Billy-Johnson-RTA-09_687335.htm
Be cautious with getting any 'instructor'. Everyone and their mom is a "driving instructor" and I've heard some terrible advice on numerous occasions from people who just become instructors, or have no idea what they are doing but are friends with the people putting on the event. Try to find someone reputable and who has done more than just HPDE or even Club Racing. There are great guys out there, ya gotta search to find them.
SC would be easier, simpler and they are a lot of fun, but it really depends on how far you are pushing the platform. Make sure to look at the company's background and see if they are involved in club racing or extensively testing their products. Anyone and their turbo kit can putt around a track at 70% and then go full throttle briefly on the straights. It's a different story when the car is pushed to 100% of its capabilities. If you are pushing the car to its limits, make sure you are buying a product that can withstand those limits and have been tested at those limits.
For now, try tracking your car, you'll realize it's plenty fast as is, even without FI.
Billy
I think there's a good chance you will have your eyes opened at your track day and will want to do it more often - be warned
Thank you for the compliment, the whole FX team did an amazing job with the car. The in-car footage is here:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/FXMD-Billy-Johnson-RTA-09_687335.htm
Be cautious with getting any 'instructor'. Everyone and their mom is a "driving instructor" and I've heard some terrible advice on numerous occasions from people who just become instructors, or have no idea what they are doing but are friends with the people putting on the event. Try to find someone reputable and who has done more than just HPDE or even Club Racing. There are great guys out there, ya gotta search to find them.
SC would be easier, simpler and they are a lot of fun, but it really depends on how far you are pushing the platform. Make sure to look at the company's background and see if they are involved in club racing or extensively testing their products. Anyone and their turbo kit can putt around a track at 70% and then go full throttle briefly on the straights. It's a different story when the car is pushed to 100% of its capabilities. If you are pushing the car to its limits, make sure you are buying a product that can withstand those limits and have been tested at those limits.
For now, try tracking your car, you'll realize it's plenty fast as is, even without FI.
Billy
Hey Billy,
Damn....I didn't know you were the Stuntman. I thought it was someone who just worked there. I'm honored....NO S**T!!! Thanks for the link. How does it feel to go that fast? How long have you been racing? Sorry to sound like such a kid....but I admire guys like you. I wanted to get into racing back in the day....but just didn't have the time or money to pursue it. I know you probably get this asked all the time....but would there be a day when you'd be out at Willow and could take me for a ride in my NSX around the track? I'm really thinking about what you said about some Instrctors.
Just one more question on wheels. Would you recommend me using my OEM 15/16s that came with my 91 NSX? Or should I use my 17/17s....that came off of a 2001 and look exactly like the NSX-R wheels?
Thanks again and hope to meet you in person.
Thanks,
Tony
Hey Tony. Sorry for busting-up your reply to Billy "Stuntman". I'm just getting a kick out of your excitement. I was and still am all ga-ga about being on a track with my NSX. I would be tempted to be Speed Racer if I was driving another's NSX, however. With only one NSX (and no dedicated track car), I must balance my desire for a show car with my interest to drive it at speed.
Hey Tony,
Without getting too off topic: the FX750 Unlimited car is a pretty fast car, we'll see soon when we are at track with known laptimes of major racing bodies, but I think it will be ballpark-faster than ALMS GT2 cars. I've been racing for 10 years now and cars for the last 7, Karts before that, and dirtbikes when I was a kid. I work Ryneen from 'prime and also do a lot of one-on-one instructing from HPDE/track guys to racing series like Ford Racing Mustang Challenge, Ferrari Challenge, Grand Am drivers, etc... E-mail me at [email protected] if you have any questions/want to work together.
As I said in Post # 11 here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122894 the newer NSX wheels/tires were wider and have a lot of benefits over the earlier wheels. Their's nothing wrong with the OEM wheels and people do track on them. From the sounds of it, getting a good set of street tires for your 17/17 and seeing how you like it might be a good first step to see if getting a dedicated track wheels/tires would be best for you.
Billy
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While the NSX doesn't have the power, the mid-engine layout will punish you if you make a mistake. It will snap oversteer very quickly if you lift off the throttle, or do any number of things that you could get away with in most of the other cars you will see at the track (Miata, EVO, STI, etc...).
Listen to Billy regarding the instruction. There are plenty of bad instructors. There are a few good ones too. Listen to them, but also listen and feel the car... obviously try to learn and be respectful--but always keep in mind that what they do in their car might not work the same for you in your car.
Definately AWD cars are more than forgiving, but I think your statement is a bit extreme, it really isn't that bad. you just have to learn to feel and use the weight in the back to turn the car.
That was a few years ago at BIG WILLOW. My current NSX looks similar (2000 vs 1997). I'll echo docjohns comment about not lifting in any turns. I did just that and chaching, that sucking money sound began.
You are going to race others on the track, without you even wanting to do it. A car is in front of you and you do what? Pass? Oh, you'll want to pass and others will want to pass you. It's called testosterone, and nothing you do will stop you from getting caught up in the moment. Keep your stock tires on and they will give you warning as to when they are at the limit. Slicks give you no warning and are on/off and are very unforgiving (JMHO). We'll meet sometime. Oh, did I mention for you to call your insurance company???
Listen to Doc. Driving schools will make your underpowered NSX actually safe and fast.
Lifted in the middle of a turn and hit the only wall at Big Willow. My instructer said OH SH!T as it was happening and he could have said "punch the throttle" and I may have been able to pull out of it.
I think there's a good chance you will have your eyes opened at your track day and will want to do it more often - be warned
Thank you for the compliment, the whole FX team did an amazing job with the car. The in-car footage is here:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/FXMD-Billy-Johnson-RTA-09_687335.htm
Be cautious with getting any 'instructor'. Everyone and their mom is a "driving instructor" and I've heard some terrible advice on numerous occasions from people who just become instructors, or have no idea what they are doing but are friends with the people putting on the event. Try to find someone reputable and who has done more than just HPDE or even Club Racing. There are great guys out there, ya gotta search to find them.
SC would be easier, simpler and they are a lot of fun, but it really depends on how far you are pushing the platform. Make sure to look at the company's background and see if they are involved in club racing or extensively testing their products. Anyone and their turbo kit can putt around a track at 70% and then go full throttle briefly on the straights. It's a different story when the car is pushed to 100% of its capabilities. If you are pushing the car to its limits, make sure you are buying a product that can withstand those limits and have been tested at those limits.
For now, try tracking your car, you'll realize it's plenty fast as is, even without FI.
Billy
Now that is some great advice. My instructor didn't have a clue and had never been in a mid engined car before. There is a difference in how you drive a mid engined car vs a rear wheel drive/front engined car.
Instructors and key to you learning the correct way to enter/exit, etc at the track. Slow is fast and fast is slow (inexperienced drivers)
Billy makes it sound so easy.......it is, once you have been to almost every driving school out there :biggrin:
Call your insurance company. I didn't
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Ok....with all this info I've received...I've come up with what I will use on the Streets of Willow. I'm going with the Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Specs 215/40Z R17front and 255/40Z R17rear and the Carbotech XP8s on all 4s. I hope to have a car cam by then to post the video. Thanks for all the info.
Yeah I live in palmdale so I am about 30 minutes away from willow. I was looks on the site but I could not find any info on the day you are going so I could sign up also.
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