What is the weak link (braking system)

[2slow2speed]

Where are you guys getting the anti-squeal compound, particularly those of you for whom is it working well?

Any place I can get it online?

Gracias all for the help. :smile:

You can find it at a parts store like Kragen:

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=PTX&MfrPartNumber=80729&CategoryCode=3223

There might be others, I know that Porsche uses acompound that is orange in color and is supposed to be rated for higher temps.

BTW: In my earlier post I was referring to the anti-squeal-compound and not brake grease

 

[nsxtasy]

Just about any auto parts store sells anti-squeal compound that can be applied to the backing plates when installing the pads.

 

[L8apex32]

I use no backing plate nor anti-squeal.

My squal (with the Panther+ pads) is a 2 out of 10 on annoyance, at worst, and usually a 0 out of 10.

Anyone (from the weight reduction thread) know the weight of the brake pad backing plates? I removed all 8. LOL :biggrin:

 

[nsxtasy]

My squal (with the Panther+ pads) is a 2 out of 10 on annoyance, at worst, and usually a 0 out of 10.

Assuming 10 is most annoying, mine was somewhere between a 9 and a 10.

I use no backing plate nor anti-squeal.
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.
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Anyone (from the weight reduction thread) know the weight of the brake pad backing plates? I removed all 8. LOL :biggrin:

In my previous post, when I mentioned applying anti-squeal compound to the backing plates, I was referring to the metal portion of the brake pad as the backing plates. You appear to be using the term "backing plate" to refer to the thin metal shims which are separate pieces from the brake pads. I was not using shims when my Panther Plus pads squealed like the metaphorical stuck pig.

 

[swbatte]

Brake systems are a very interesting topic, and I think that someone who wants to improve braking at the track before adding power is a wise man!

I remember feeling the same way at the track the first few times. I would suggest that Ken and Doc have given you some excellent advice. The stock NSX braking system is very good. The first thing I would do (and did do) is learn to drive smoother and not brake as early.

Braking early causes the heat to soak the pads and rotors and cause fade rapidly. So on the brake, off the brake. That will let them cool. Early in my track days, I drove as fast as I could and my brake pedal went to the floor on the 5th lap. I came in, went out later, and drove what I thought was slower. Turns out I was faster! Smooth is fast!

Get out to some more track sessions with good instructors. Let one you trust take you around in your NSX. You'll be amazed what it can do.

BTW, Don't go to a pure track pad, they need to be warm before they work, and that can be dangerous on the street. Stick with stock for now, take more lessons and have fun!

 

[stuntman]

www.skipbarber.com - invest in yourself

 

[MJK]

Driving schools are definitely on my want list.

We'll see how hard this track bug bites me. If it gets too hard, I might pick up a cheap dedicated race car - ideally something already reasonably modified. Spec miata, something to run with the bimmer folks, whatever. I can't see turning my NSX into a track rat.

As for the brakes on the NSX, I put stainless lines on and flushed the system with Motul. The pre-track feel is back, so I definitely cooked the fluid somewhat. No better or worse feel with stainless vs stock lines.

I'll toss some more aggressive pads on the car before I track it again.

Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[L8apex32]

www.skipbarber.com - invest in yourself

+1 for investing in yourself. More seat time is faster (and way more fun).

 

[MJK]

Follow up:

New fluid and lines got the pedal feel back, but the brakes were squealing and making a barely audible jingling sound that they never made before. So, I tore them apart. In case anyone is curious, here are my conclusions. They might not all be right.

1. Fade at track, and soft pedal on the way home was:
A) Fluid was cooked
B) Pads were lightly toasted.

2. The faint high pitched jingle was the spring clips between the caliper bracket and pads. The were loose allowing side to side movement of the caliper unless the brakes were on. Backing plate was hitting the bracket and making this really obnoxious jingle. Jingle jingle. Jingle jingle jingle jingle jingle. It will drive you crazy.

3. Post track squeal was that the calipers got hot enough to cook out the anti squeal compound.

4. With no deflectors, it is possible to melt one dust boot on freshly rebuilt calipers. It happens where you would expect: front caliper, leading piston, up top.

5. I need to do something differently next time. Technique, air deflectors and new pads seems like the right ticket to me.

 

[stuntman]

Follow up:

New fluid and lines got the pedal feel back, but the brakes were squealing and making a barely audible jingling sound that they never made before. So, I tore them apart. In case anyone is curious, here are my conclusions. They might not all be right.

1. Fade at track, and soft pedal on the way home was:
A) Fluid was cooked
B) Pads were lightly toasted.

2. The faint high pitched jingle was the spring clips between the caliper bracket and pads. The were loose allowing side to side movement of the caliper unless the brakes were on. Backing plate was hitting the bracket and making this really obnoxious jingle. Jingle jingle. Jingle jingle jingle jingle jingle. It will drive you crazy.

3. Post track squeal was that the calipers got hot enough to cook out the anti squeal compound.

4. With no deflectors, it is possible to melt one dust boot on freshly rebuilt calipers. It happens where you would expect: front caliper, leading piston, up top.

5. I need to do something differently next time. Technique, air deflectors and new pads seems like the right ticket to me.

What pads/lines/fluid were you running?

 

[MJK]

Check out the first post: :wink:

I went to the track with OE 97+ brakes, OE 97+ rotors, Carbotech Bobcats, fresh ATE and all else stock.

 

[stuntman]

The Carbotech Bobcat 1521™ is our high performance street compound that is our most successful compound. The Bobcat compound is known for its awesome release and modulation, along with unmatched rotor friendliness. Like our AX™ & XP™ line of compounds, Bobcat 1521™ is a Ceramic based friction material offering minimal rotor damage and non corrosive dust. Bobcat 1521™ offers outstanding performance, even when cold, low dusting and low noise with an excellent initial bite. This compound’s virtually perfect linear torque production provides incredible braking force without ABS intervention. Bobcat 1521™ operating range starts out at ambient and goes up to 900°F. Bobcat 1521™ is suitable for ALL street cars, perfect for your tow vehicle, police cruiser, and has won multiple SCCA Solo 2 and Prosolo National Championships. The Bobcat 1521™ compound has been found to last two-three times longer than OE pads you can purchase at a dealership or national retailer. Bobcat 1521™ compound has also been found to extend the life of your rotors 2-3 times. That’s one of the beauties of Carbotech Ceramic brake compounds. Bobcat 1521™ is NOT recommended for any track use.

-I think there's your answer.

 

[MJK]

Yea, but I was supposed to be a slow first timer. Besides, I did not read that until AFTER I want to the track. If folks can do it on stock pads, I assumed the bobcats would be ok. I also assumed no air mgmt would be ok.

Yes, I know what "assume" means. :wink: