What is the real problem with my A/C?

[SoCalDude]

I've had my 91 for almost 2 months now and the A/C has not worked since I had it. Here's what's been happening. I bought the car from Mitch at Mechanics Direct in Mass. Mitch said he tested the A/C before the car was sold to me and it blew cold. I trust Mitch. He even had a spool valve overnighted so he could make that repair (no charge to me) before the car was shipped off to me. He wanted the car to be right before it was sold.

When first got the car, I didn't drive it much because of several out of town trips. I finally turned on the A/C about 2 weeks after I got the car and no cold air. Then I took the car to a tire shop to have some news wheels put on and had them recharge the Freon (R12) since I guessed that must be the problem. The tire shop said the air blew cold but the Freon was leaking so he took out the Freon and only charged me for the service. I now guessed and hoped it was just a loose hose somewhere. Time for a dye test to find the leak.

Another month passes before I have the time to do this. So Wednesday I take the car into Santa Monica Acura for a diagnosis because they were the closest dealership to me. They say it costs $90 to diagnosis applicable to the repair should I choose to do it.

6 hours later, they finally call to let me know that there was no leak but I need a new receiver and dryer. The cost would be about $570 plus tax for the parts. Okay, not great but $600 is better than sweating so I say okay. The part would arrive the next day.

The end on the next day, they call to say the part finally arrived but the car won't be ready until the following day, Friday. So Friday around noon they call and say the car will hopefully be done by the end of the day.

At around 5:30 pm today they call. Bad news. The car is leaking and also needs a compressor and evaporator core and the total costs would be around $4500!!!! They said parts alone costs around $1800. I decline or course but they still need to charge me something for the receiver and labor already done. $340. So my $90 diagnosis ends up costing $340 and I get nothing in return.

Am I missing something here but how can it going from blowing cold, to blowing cold but leaking, to absolutely nothing working in a matter of 7 weeks and 600 miles on the car? I plan on writing Acura Corporate about this. First, I'm overcharged $250 for a bad diagnosis and then they want $4500 to fix something they did not even diagnose correctly to begin with! Could it be they don't know what the problem is and figure if they replace everything, it should work again?

Thanks, I feel better now that this is off my chest!

 

[KulSecHskY]

I wouldn't have given them a dime.

They charge EXTRA cause they mis-diagnosed the car? They should refund your money lol.

 

[hlweyl]

A leak in the evaporator is very hard to spot on someone that has not has experience with the NSX. I think you have to pull the blower motor off just to see it (it's buried in the dash). It is possible that you have mulitple leaks in the system however.

Best of luck in any case.

 

[MIKE5261]

most likey the correct diagnosis is the evap core which is located behind the dash, the car needs a proper diagnosis with a dye check. If the core is leaking the dash pad will need to be removed and you should consider converting the system to r 134 while this repair is done. Santa Monica Acura is a Reputable dealer and would suggest you talk with the service manager regarding the 1st diagnosis. because of the location of the evap core it is difficult to correctly diagnose. I just replaced the compressor on my 91 nsx last friday but it wasnot leaking, it was siezed. I have seen compressors leak in the past along with evap cores, if the compressor is bad I would recommend to replace the reciever/dryer anyways

 

[SoCalDude]

most likey the correct diagnosis is the evap core which is located behind the dash, the car needs a proper diagnosis with a dye check. If the core is leaking the dash pad will need to be removed and you should consider converting the system to r 134 while this repair is done. Santa Monica Acura is a Reputable dealer and would suggest you talk with the service manager regarding the 1st diagnosis. because of the location of the evap core it is difficult to correctly diagnose.

The problem I have with them is that I agreed to a $90 diagnosis, not a $340 attempt at repair and diagnosis. Doesn't seem ethical to charge me for their incorrect diagnosis. And I still don't believe they know what the problem is. I think they don't know so they figure if they change out everything in the A/C system, it should work again.

And I did ask them to do a dye test when I brought it in. not surte if they ever did.

I'll call the service manager but I figure I'm out the $250.

Which dealership are you the service manager at?

 

[Spinner]

The problem I have with them is that I agreed to a $90 diagnosis, not a $340 attempt at repair and diagnosis. Doesn't seem ethical to charge me for their incorrect diagnosis. And I still don't believe they know what the problem is. I think they don't know so they figure if they change out everything in the A/C system, it should work again.

And I did ask them to do a dye test when I brought it in. not surte if they ever did.

I'll call the service manager but I figure I'm out the $250.

Which dealership are you the service manager at?

I highly, highly along with other members in SoCal, would Recommend Johm Martin of Power Acura in torrance. He's the service manager there, has his own built NSX and was involved with the prototype. He knows his NSX inside out, provides loaners and are reasonably priced!

 

[SilverOne]

So my $90 diagnosis ends up costing $340 and I get nothing in return.

Reading this brings back many dealership experiences. I've had similar experiences that I had to be forceful with the SVC Manager to get my refund or reducing the charges. I hope everything turn out well for you. Btw, "Forceful" does not mean rude. It's just stating the fact, and work with the dealership, and ask the dealership to demonstrate how important your business mean to them.

Since 91's are out of warranty anyway, I would suggest taking your car to a reputable shop in the So Cal area, and there are many in LA/OC that is qualified to do this work. Do a search on the SoCAL forum and many name should pop up, and I would verify it with fellow NSXer for references.

 

[SoCalDude]

The word from Santa Monica Acura

Well, I finally spoke to the service manager at Santa Monica Acura. He pulls the paperwork and it says replace AC receiver/dryer as per customer request. So he thinks I asked them to do those specific parts replacements. I politely tell him that I don’t even know what those parts are and I just came in initially for a diagnosis as was then told my repair would be $575 plus tax. He speaks to the service advisor and technician and then tells me that they thought was replacing those parts would take care of the problem but in fact, there was more serious issues than that when they replaced the parts and it still didn’t blow cold. He offers to apply the $340 I paid already to the repair should I choose to do it. Like I actually trust them to do any future work on my car! I guess the main problem I have with them is they should have told me the $575 repair still may not get the job done so I could have considered whether to do this or not. I would not have had I known. Lesson learned. BTW, this is the first time I had a dealership attempt any major repair on one of my vehicles in years. I know I’ve been right all these years not to go the dealerships. You need to know the folks who service your cars. I <b>will not</b> be gong back to Santa Monica Acura for service in the future!

Jon Martin, you will see my car in the future so I can get an accurate diagnosis instead of a WAG!

 

[matteni]

Plain and simple - they messed up the diagnosis.

The first thing they should have done is measure the pressure in the system to see if it is below spec. The second thing (assuming low refrigerant pressure) is recharge the system with dye. It is inexpensive and will tell them exactly where the leak is coming from. Although you can't remove the evaporator from the front of the car - there is a way to access a very good percentage of it from the front to see a dye leak (remember it is ultraviolet as well so show up easily with a proper light).

Then - if the leak can't be found and it is holding pressure - you wait like a week or so and re-measure the pressure. If it has dropped you re-look for the leak. If you still can't find it - then 99.9% it is from the back side of the evaporator that you can't see.

IMO - then you try to determine how bad the leak truly is. Many times it makes since to convert to the newer, cheaper, more environmentally friendly refrigerant and maybe put some stop leak in the system (especially if you know you have to replace the evaporator). In my case I have a small tiny leak that I have been able to "seal up" and requires a can of refrigerant every other year.

It would take me 100 years to break even on the dealer repair quote and I am very happy - even with my black interior in the typically hot August summer.

Get your money back, retrofit for the newer refrigerant, try some of the "stop leak" additives, and see how well it holds. At less then $5 per can you can go a LONG time before you eat up $1800+ dollars.

 

[bizman]

ac fluctuation

I hope nobody minds me posting a different AC concern / question. In my 91 when I have the AC on I find a fluctuation in the "coldness" of the air between driving and idle even though the control level has not been touched. Is this normal or is a possible sign of future problems. I have never noticed this in my other vehicles. Also I notice a lot of water dripping out of the car when in the driveway or garage but it has been very warm and humid here lately.

 

[steveny]

Could it be they don't know what the problem is and figure if they replace everything, it should work again?

Well that is how my a/c was fixed and I spent more than 4500 total. I spent a few hundred here and a few hundred there and then a few thousand. Luckily for me I bought an extended warranty which paid for almost 90% of the repairs. I can tell you this, it is unbelievable how far they will have to tear your car apart to make the repairs. My advice, don't go to the dealer until they have the car finished. I just about lost my lunch when I saw my car in the repair bay in what appeared to be 50 thousand separate pieces.

Someone needs to produce a aftermarket a/c unit for these cars. Who ever did could profit nicely and also help the NSX community at the same time.

Edit: Assuming you still have them test the old parts to determine if they are in fact bad. If they are in fact good parts go back to the dealership with your findings and ask for a well deserved refund.

 

[myf16]

Replace the evap only and then see if it works before proceeding further. You can do this yourself in about 12(!) hours. No special skills are required other than a good memory for where things go when you put them back together. The part is $400 or so.

 

[Biaggi]

Dreaded dealer...

SoCalDude:

I feel your pain... But on a side note, last year when my a/c compressor froze, I received excellent advice from fellow member Larry Bastanza. He led me to Compressors International to get the parts I needed and then the other parts I used the NSXCA discount at NEillo Acura.
http://www.compressor-intl.com/production/index.htm

The compressor 10PA15C was around $230
Receiver/Dryer under $30
$40 core charge
$20 ship

The expansion valve from Neillo was around $70
The conversion kit to R134 was aroun $70

and my NSX Tech (local to Raleigh) did not mention about replacing the evaporator.
Tonight I just got the car back from him after he fixed the AC and did the T-belt and other things at the request its new owner and it blows sooo COLD! It's new owner will definitely be enjoying his drive home to Chi town this weekend!

Just to fill you in on the labor charges, my NSX Tech quoted $350 for the A/C compressor, receiver/drier, expansion valve and conversion to R134. Which also falls in the same labor amount that another Mechanic in Raleigh quoted (who SJones used recently for his AC fix -which I recently read here on the forums)

My suggestion is to go my route and buy all the parts and find a reputable NSX tech to do the labor.

Good luck!

 

[Cees-Jan]

I am very sorry to hear about your misfortune.

The dealer should have told you that there is a risk of this situation and he did not. BAD MISTAKE

Why did they not diagnose right:

There are 3 testmethodes for leakage:

1 Vacumize the system and see if it holds vacuum for a few hours.(if not, outside AIR is leaking in the system)

2Pressurize with N2 to a amount pressure and see if it holds for a few hours.(if not N2 is leaking out of the system)

3 Fill up with R134 (or R12) and see what happens(this is illegal in Europe for enviremental reasons)


The trubble with the first and second test is that it is done with air or N2 , the molecules of these gasses are much bigger than the ones of the R134.So if there is a hole not big enough for air, then it is completly leaking all over when filling with R134...........