what if the ascc peforms.... REALLY performs?

[NSX-Tuner]

I could care less if the ASCC was the world's fastest car, I think it's an abomination and would never consider buying one.

 

[MoreRPMs]

Heck Toyota races and when was the last time they had a sporstcar. Lexus doesn't have a halo sportscar and won't have one until 08 or 09 so it's not essential.

Other than Ferrari, BMW, and Honda I don't see any logical reason why any of the other companies are involved in F1. Renault's success in building a powerful and reliable fabulous engine has what to do with Fuegos and LeCars? :biggrin:

Of course whatever the ASC evolves into it will spread whatever they decide to put in it down to other models.

Looks like it's evolving into a AWD 2-ton pig. That tells me the next gen TLs will have put on a few hundred more pounds while squeezing out 15 more whopping horses from single cam motors. Nice engine tech fellas. Soichiro would have all their heads.

 

[NSXGMS]

Well the Hp debate is a lengthy one. 300ZX TT , Supra TT , RX7 , VR4 had plenty of hp and still went the way of the dodo before the hp wars heated up. I've never once heard anyone say the Supra wasn't fast or that it didn't have enough hp .but the NA2 NSX was still faster yet it doesn't get that same respect. Insufficient HP did not kill the NSX. It's the fact that it was a Honda priced near $90k. Noticed I said priced near $90K because it sure wasn't selling for that ask anyone that bought one new. There's actually a couple left out there for a lucky owner:biggrin:

$90K was cheaper than $60K in 1991 dollars. And many NSXs sold for more than $60K in 1991.

Also, most NSX owners agree that the 2005 NSX was a very good value for $90K. And you're right--very rarely did they sell for $90K due mostly to Honda's insanely good lease deal. And the car looked virtually the same (arguably worse) and was getting bashed left and right by the media because it was being constantly compared to Ferrari, Porsche and the Viper, C5 ZO6, etc.

Don't forget: recession hit in 1992 and took a lot of the wind out of luxury cars' sails. If Honda had been on the ball with marketing and updating the NSX during that time they would have sold many, many more cars when the economy picked back up again in the mid-late 90s. I'm sorry, but adding a T-top doesn't cut it when Ferrari goes from F348 to F355...

In America particularly, power sells cars. How many NSXs would have sold in 1991 if Honda went with the de-tuned 252 HP automatic version of the engine? It only would have needed around 230HP to be the most powerful NA V-6 in the world. The point is it had great relative power in 1991-1994 and it sold well.

At least when the HSC was introduced people were saying something about it, albeit sometimes negative things. The ASC has no one talking...seems like the automotive community and the media could really care less how the ASC shapes up.

Also, while many consider the 15-year-old design of the NSX to still be one of the most beautiful designs ever many people feel the same way about the 930-993 Porsche body style. But inevitably it became necessary for a major redesign, ala HSC. The only reason Porsche hung in there for 23 years was because they constantly upgraded the motor and chassis, keeping it very competitive in the HP department and with track times.

Insufficient HP was definitely a huge factor in the poor sales of the NSX but the lack of power was just a symptom of Honda's failure to update and market the car properly as a whole.

If there was no demand for an exotic ME F1-inspired car Ferrari wouldn't have a waiting list for the F430 at $190K+. There is no doubt in my mind that if the HSC were to have debuted in 2002 or even 2003 with 400+ HP, 9k redline, F1 tranny and a price of $110-120K they would have sold over 3000 units the first year. I would be willing to put a friendly wager on the number of ASCs sold in the first year, but I'm not sure how this car is going to be marketed yet.

Honda's best bet for sales is to keep the technology low and price it well below $70K. This means very little carbon fiber, standard tranny and de-tuned engine. If they do this they'll probably sell a good deal of units. But I do not believe Honda can stuff all this purported technology into the ASC and keep the price under $100K, line-produced or not. Honda is not interested in taking a loss on this vehicle per car like they were with the NSX.

I really hope they are able to do it. Honda is a great company and I can get behind virtually any product they put out. But it just seems to me, and a lot of other NSX owners, that Honda's just taking the wrong path and by Honda directly associating this car with the NSX it brings unwarranted comparison and I think we can see just how different this car is from the original NSX, and not in a good way.

I just refuse to buy the opinion that the NSX failed Honda when there's a lot of evidence that says opposite. And for Honda to believe that the NSX was nothing but a big money pit shows how shortsighted and ignorant they are. They need to look in the mirror a little bit, I think.

 

[WingZ]

$90K was cheaper than $60K in 1991 dollars. And many NSXs sold for more than $60K in 1991.

Also, most NSX owners agree that the 2005 NSX was a very good value for $90K. And you're right--very rarely did they sell for $90K due mostly to Honda's insanely good lease deal. And the car looked virtually the same (arguably worse) and was getting bashed left and right by the media because it was being constantly compared to Ferrari, Porsche and the Viper, C5 ZO6, etc.

It sold that well as a new entry in to the market. Rarely try never! the lease deal didn't even equate to $90k and paying cash made the car even cheaper. Funny when it was being cancelled everybody who drove it said "wow can't believe this car is still so great" and they continued to rave about it. Also people can compare all they want but C5 Z06 and Porsche are not hand made exotics.

Don't forget: recession hit in 1992 and took a lot of the wind out of luxury cars' sails. If Honda had been on the ball with marketing and updating the NSX during that time they would have sold many, many more cars when the economy picked back up again in the mid-late 90s. I'm sorry, but adding a T-top doesn't cut it when Ferrari goes from F348 to F355...

Uh I think they added more than a targa. The power bump they gave it kept it in step with the F355 as the hard top NA2 's with the lighter weight were not being left by F355's. Ferrari had to do all that to get up to speed on the NSX. I don't know why I always have to defend the NSX from other NSX owners on the F355. THE F355 did not make the NSX obsolete! the F355 was Ferrari's anwser to the NA1 NSX and the NA2 NSX got right back in Ferrari's face for how much less????? You people seem to keep forgetting the price jumps Ferrari was making with each new model and hey they can do that as Ferrari:biggrin: Honda can't do that as the NSX was still not considered a prestigous vehicle and couldn't get more money for the car and they were already losing money on it.

In America particularly, power sells cars. How many NSXs would have sold in 1991 if Honda went with the de-tuned 252 HP automatic version of the engine? It only would have needed around 230HP to be the most powerful NA V-6 in the world. The point is it had great relative power in 1991-1994 and it sold well.

The NSX has ALWAYS been a better performer than it's paper hp numbers suggest and people are ignorant to think that the car couldn't perform with less than 300hp V6

At least when the HSC was introduced people were saying something about it, albeit sometimes negative things. The ASC has no one talking...seems like the automotive community and the media could really care less how the ASC shapes up.

I'm glad you feel comfortable speaking for the media becuase I have not read anything that dissed unless I was reading a Honda fan site

Also, while many consider the 15-year-old design of the NSX to still be one of the most beautiful designs ever many people feel the same way about the 930-993 Porsche body style. But inevitably it became necessary for a major redesign, ala HSC. The only reason Porsche hung in there for 23 years was because they constantly upgraded the motor and chassis, keeping it very competitive in the HP department and with track times.

Only problem with this is that all we got here was the BASE model NSX not the higher performing versions. Had we recieved those models here maybe pontential buyers would have considered the NSX more competitive

Insufficient HP was definitely a huge factor in the poor sales of the NSX but the lack of power was just a symptom of Honda's failure to update and market the car properly as a whole.

If there was no demand for an exotic M
E F1-inspired car Ferrari wouldn't have a waiting list for the F430 at $190K+. There is no doubt in my mind that if the HSC were to have debuted in 2002 or even 2003 with 400+ HP, 9k redline, F1 tranny and a price of $110-120K they would have sold over 3000 units the first year. I would be willing to put a friendly wager on the number of ASCs sold in the first year, but I'm not sure how this car is going to be marketed yet.

Oh nice. Sorry buddy but there's a demand from rich people for a Ferrari ,but most NSX owners aren't rich. Most rich people aren't buying cars for value ,but for status and this is what hurts the NSX. It's a great value and that's a problem for something that's upmarket. Why put a wager on a concept car that didn't have an engine or door handles for that matter. Honda says and I quote " The dynamically styled concept provides a PREVIEW of the DESIGN DIRECTION for the SUCESSOR to the NSX" why can't you guys understand this. It's NOT the FINAL design their not going to sell the ASC it's just the direction they're going for their next sportscar! That's it. You people ( and some magazines ) are running around like a chicken with their head cut off over whats basically a clay model with paint! it's not finished! none of us know what final design it may take even by the Tokyo auto show. So why not say "well I don't care for it but it's not the final design so I'll wait to pass judgement and drool at Honda making a V10". How many stupid friggin polls and threads have been started in this section over a concept that's not even final!

Honda's best bet for sales is to keep the technology low and price it well below $70K. This means very little carbon fiber, standard tranny and de-tuned engine. If they do this they'll probably sell a good deal of units. But I do not believe Honda can stuff all this purported technology into the ASC and keep the price under $100K, line-produced or not. Honda is not interested in taking a loss on this vehicle per car like they were with the NSX.

I think Honda can get away with a V10 in the $70-80K range ( hey it's wanna pay:biggrin: ) We all know Honda doesn't want to lose any more money on another NSX type vehicle..LoL

I really hope they are able to do it. Honda is a great company and I can get behind virtually any product they put out. But it just seems to me, and a lot of other NSX owners, that Honda's just taking the wrong path and by Honda directly associating this car with the NSX it brings unwarranted comparison and I think we can see just how different this car is from the original NSX, and not in a good way.

I just refuse to buy the opinion that the NSX failed Honda when there's a lot of evidence that says opposite. And for Honda to believe that the NSX was nothing but a big money pit shows how shortsighted and ignorant they are. They need to look in the mirror a little bit, I think.

I hope they can do it to buddy I really do. Honda doesn't really care about NSX owners as it was a failed sales model and why would you try to be faithful to a group of a car that didn't sale well. You know that makes no sense:wink: Oh well nice debating with you as always

 

[WingZ]

Looks like it's evolving into a AWD 2-ton pig. That tells me the next gen TLs will have put on a few hundred more pounds while squeezing out 15 more whopping horses from single cam motors. Nice engine tech fellas. Soichiro would have all their heads.

Why try to predict what it evolving into it's just a concept. How about waiting till they put more time into it or whatever design they decide to go with before passing judgement. Honda's cars tend to be lighter than their competitors so once again lets wait and see.

 

[WingZ]

The sin Honda/Acura committed on the NSX was not that they built such a nitch market car, but they neglected to upgrade it throughout the years. The poor sales numbers is not all the NSX's fault. It is the same like the Lexus SC400 that came out in 1992 and continued to 2000. The sales numbers dropped year after year and the barely sold in the last years. 14 years with only 2 or 3 major updates is just not enough to keep the public interested in any car.

They made little upgrades to car that was ahead of it's time constantly. I can't understand why you people even bought an NSX if it was so flawed!

 

[NSXBat]

The ASC has no one talking...seems like the automotive community and the media could really care less how the ASC shapes up.

The silence is deafening!

-Car Shows.......no crowds or mass interest

-Car Groups......no one is thinking of crossing-over to Acura

-Competition.....R8 is sucking up all the oxygen

-Magazines ...... no positive spin or buzz for Acura
(Car&Diver called it a left-hook, a real punch in the gut to NSX guys)


Have you ever seen a concept car get so little "Buzz" and survive to production????
If it wasn't for NSX members complaining...this car would have no one talking about it at all.

 

[NSXBat]

Why try to predict what it evolving into it's just a concept.

When a concept hits the Detroit Auto Show (the most important auto show in the world)...Car guys are suppose to explode with interest!

-Lexus LF-A- Big buzz for 2007 and lots of people talking

-New Camaro- crowds went nuts (begged the company to build it)

-GT40 Ford- People started fighting over who could take a deposit

- BMW's introduction of the Mini- Lines down the hall to sit in one

-1st and 2nd Viper- crowds went wild (pre-orders start flooding in)

- Mazda Miata - instant crowd favorite

-1991 NSX- crowds are blown away....shocked!

-Jag two seater- crowds loved it, Won best concept car of show.
Even with great buzz & demand some concepts don't make it.

 

[NSXGMS]

Also people can compare all they want but C5 Z06 and Porsche are not hand made exotics.

Neither is the ASC :wink:

Uh I think they added more than a targa. The power bump they gave it kept it in step with the F355 as the hard top NA2 's with the lighter weight were not being left by F355's. Ferrari had to do all that to get up to speed on the NSX. I don't know why I always have to defend the NSX from other NSX owners on the F355. THE F355 did not make the NSX obsolete! the F355 was Ferrari's anwser to the NA1 NSX and the NA2 NSX got right back in Ferrari's face for how much less????? You people seem to keep forgetting the price jumps Ferrari was making with each new model and hey they can do that as Ferrari:biggrin: Honda can't do that as the NSX was still not considered a prestigous vehicle and couldn't get more money for the car and they were already losing money on it.

The NSX didn't receive a power bump until 1997. The F360 was around the corner. By 1995 there were several Japanese cars that had over 30 HP over the NSX and even a 6-speed. Even though the F355 wasn't superior to the NSX it's more of a testament to how good the original NSX was. It took Ferrari 8 years to catch up.

My point is you can't design a car so great that there's no room for improvement (NSX) and leave it on the market for 15 years and expect good sales. Ford is making the GT a limited run for a reason. Who takes the blame for that? Surely you can't blame the car.

I'll always argue that Honda knew the NSX needed updating but was always a day late and a dollar short. Why go to the C32 and 6-speed at all? Why redesign the front end? They knew that something must be done but if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right and Honda suffered the consequences. Now they're blaming the car for their procrastination.

The NSX has ALWAYS been a better performer than it's paper hp numbers suggest and people are ignorant to think that the car couldn't perform with less than 300hp V6

True. The NSX always overachieved. But it can only hang for so long. I don't think anyone cares that the ZO6 has "505HP". They care that it throws you into the seat and tears around the track. Hell, if the HSC had 350HP and was as fast as the F430 great, mission accomplished. But it probably wasn't going to happen.

I'm glad you feel comfortable speaking for the media becuase I have not read anything that dissed unless I was reading a Honda fan site

There's no dissing because there's nothing at all. No talk, negative or positive, really. No anticipation. No deposits. No interest. You do know Honda was taking deposits for the NSX in 1986 (when it was even more of a concept than the ASC) Know anyone who wants to put theirs in for the ASC?

Only problem with this is that all we got here was the BASE model NSX not the higher performing versions. Had we recieved those models here maybe pontential buyers would have considered the NSX more competitive

True, Honda made a mistake IMO not offering the Type-S/R but they were probably disappointed with Zanardi sales. Again, 1999 was a little late to be offering performance models. The Type-R sould have been available in 1995. Things change quickly in the automotive world. You can't become complacent like Honda was with the NSX and expect to have strong sales numbers.

Oh nice. Sorry buddy but there's a demand from rich people for a Ferrari ,but most NSX owners aren't rich. Most rich people aren't buying cars for value ,but for status and this is what hurts the NSX. It's a great value and that's a problem for something that's upmarket. Why put a wager on a concept car that didn't have an engine or door handles for that matter. Honda says and I quote " The dynamically styled concept provides a PREVIEW of the DESIGN DIRECTION for the SUCESSOR to the NSX" why can't you guys understand this. It's NOT the FINAL design their not going to sell the ASC it's just the direction they're going for their next sportscar! That's it. You people ( and some magazines ) are running around like a chicken with their head cut off over whats basically a clay model with paint! it's not finished! none of us know what final design it may take even by the Tokyo auto show. So why not say "well I don't care for it but it's not the final design so I'll wait to pass judgement and drool at Honda making a V10". How many stupid friggin polls and threads have been started in this section over a concept that's not even final!

You're right. We are prejudging the ASC. But it's human nature and so far, it's not making many people happy. Am I happy Honda's doing something? Yes, absolutely. But again, anything worth doing is worth doing right. And I'm not convinced this is the best they could do.

As far as badging, yes, Ferrari will always be king. But Honda/Acura really stepped up to the plate and gained an immense amount of respect with the NSX. There would be far less snobbery surrounding the HSC that in 1991 with the NSX. I think more Ferrari buyers would have considered the HSC in 2003 than the NSX in 1991.

I think Honda can get away with a V10 in the $70-80K range ( hey it's wanna pay:biggrin: ) We all know Honda doesn't want to lose any more money on another NSX type vehicle..LoL

We'll see. If they can tweak the looks and make it a ZO6 beater for $80K than I'll change my mind. But only time will tell...

 

[WingZ]

When a concept hits the Detroit Auto Show (the most important auto show in the world)...Car guys are suppose to explode with interest!

-Lexus LF-A- Big buzz for 2007 and lots of people talking

-New Camaro- crowds went nuts (begged the company to build it)

-GT40 Ford- People started fighting over who could take a deposit

- BMW's introduction of the Mini- Lines down the hall to sit in one

-1st and 2nd Viper- crowds went wild (pre-orders start flooding in)

- Mazda Miata - instant crowd favorite

-1991 NSX- crowds are blown away....shocked!

-Jag two seater- crowds loved it, Won best concept car of show.
Even with great buzz & demand some concepts don't make it.

LoL I was at the Detroit autoshow when they displayed the HSC and it didn't draw crowds the only thing people really talked about was the lack of power. I just don't understand why you or anyone would put so much energy into bashing ,criticizing and making fun of something that doesn't even have door handles. You've been here for a couple of weeks and almost all your posts are negative towards a car that won't be made. You don't like we get that! Try sending your posts to Honda if you wanna make difference. Honestly if you really love the NSX so much and are so angry about the ASC go by a new 05 NSX and then tell Honda that as a buyer they need to take you seriously!

 

[NSXBat]

I just don't understand why you or anyone would put so much energy into bashing ,criticizing.

You've been here for a couple of weeks !

I've been here on NSXPrime since 2001, if you look at my join date :tongue:
( I haven't updated since...not in Michigan any more)

I've read and learned everything about the the NSX, even went to the NSXpo this year :biggrin:

But I felt, I was at the end of the product cycle in 2001 so I have been waiting and reading NSXprime for 6 years waiting (and saving my money so I could buy new) just to hear the big news Jan 2007 that the next NSX was........... ASC

I'm MAD as hell

Dad has a Honda, Sister has a brand new Honda, Wife has a brand new Honda... all because I realy like Honda and love to share my excitment. Mom has a Lexus....trader!

I also know that Honda reads NSXprime and I want them to think twice before making another bad move. This ASC is still a concept only.

Sorry but after 7 years of waiting for the next NSX ...the ASC has not made a very big splash. Not what I expected.

But sir you are wrong to say I'm Bashing the new Car. I don't like it. But I'm not calling it names, or making personal attacks, .... I'm enjoying your counter point debates and glad you're here.... at least we have 6 guys on NSXprime for the ASC to make this a debate.

In many of my post I am asking? Show me where the buzz is coming from for this car? Tell me who is going to lose market share to Acura over the ASC? Prove me wrong that Acura is going the right-way by tossing 20 years of "boy-racer" brand building into the trash by dropping the NSX and RSX and talking about going after Lexus?

I am trying to ask as many questions as I can about the ASC?
I hope someone offers some good answers. :wink:
So far you have been doing a damn good job

 

[WingZ]

Neither is the ASC :wink:

Only Honda suggests it as an Exotic ,but hey Chevy suggests the Z06 is exotic as well

The NSX didn't receive a power bump until 1997. The F360 was around the corner. By 1995 there were several Japanese cars that had over 30 HP over the NSX and even a 6-speed. Even though the F355 wasn't superior to the NSX it's more of a testament to how good the original NSX was. It took Ferrari 8 years to catch up.

Those cars started out with 30hp over the NSX and also weighed several hundred pounds more than the NSX as well so what's your point? Wow praise for the NSX against the Ferrari

My point is you can't design a car so great that there's no room for improvement (NSX) and leave it on the market for 15 years and expect good sales. Ford is making the GT a limited run for a reason. Who takes the blame for that? Surely you can't blame the car.

They were always making improvements to the NSX it just wasn't the radical improvements that other cars needed.

I'll always argue that Honda knew the NSX needed updating but was always a day late and a dollar short. Why go to the C32 and 6-speed at all? Why redesign the front end? They knew that something must be done but if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right and Honda suffered the consequences. Now they're blaming the car for their procrastination.

When did Honda start blaming the NSX for not selling????

True. The NSX always overachieved. But it can only hang for so long. I don't think anyone cares that the ZO6 has "505HP". They care that it throws you into the seat and tears around the track. Hell, if the HSC had 350HP and was as fast as the F430 great, mission accomplished. But it probably wasn't going to happen.

Why did it have to keep holding it's own? it had more than five minutes of fame and changed the way exotics are made and proved that Honda could beat Ferrari at their game and make Legendary Ferrari play catch up.

There's no dissing because there's nothing at all. No talk, negative or positive, really. No anticipation. No deposits. No interest. You do know Honda was taking deposits for the NSX in 1986 (when it was even more of a concept than the ASC) Know anyone who wants to put theirs in for the ASC?

People have tried putting deposits on the HSC or whatever but at this point there's nothing to put a deposit on. Again ASC just a concept not confirmed why put a deposit on a concept?

True, Honda made a mistake IMO not offering the Type-S/R but they were probably disappointed with Zanardi sales. Again, 1999 was a little late to be offering performance models. The Type-R sould have been available in 1995. Things change quickly in the automotive world. You can't become complacent like Honda was with the NSX and expect to have strong sales numbers.

Zanardi didn't sell well?

You're right. We are prejudging the ASC. But it's human nature and so far, it's not making many people happy. Am I happy Honda's doing something? Yes, absolutely. But again, anything worth doing is worth doing right. And I'm not convinced this is the best they could do.

It's the direction Honda wants to take. What they should only make MR sportscars? Thanks god they decided to do something different or we would never have had the S2000.

As far as badging, yes, Ferrari will always be king. But Honda/Acura really stepped up to the plate and gained an immense amount of respect with the NSX. There would be far less snobbery surrounding the HSC that in 1991 with the NSX. I think more Ferrari buyers would have considered the HSC in 2003 than the NSX in 1991.

Respect yes money clout...no!

We'll see. If they can tweak the looks and make it a ZO6 beater for $80K than I'll change my mind. But only time will tell...

Yes let's give it time:wink:

 

[WingZ]

I've been here on NSXPrime since 2001, if you look at my join date :tongue:
( I haven't updated since...not sure what it still says about me?)

I've read and learned everything about the the NSX, even went to the NSXpo this year :biggrin:

But I felt, I was at the end of the product cycle in 2001 so I have been waiting and reading NSXprime for 6 years waiting (and saving my money so I could buy new) just to hear the big news Jan 2007 that the next NSX was........... ASC

I'm MAD as hell

Dad has a Honda, Sister has a brand new Honda, Wife has a brand new Honda... all because I realy like Honda and love to share my excitment.

I also know that Honda reads NSXprime and I want them to think twice before making another bad move. This ASC is still a concept only.

Sorry but after 7 years of waiting for the next NSX ...the ASC has not made a very big splash. Not what I expected.

But sir you are wrong to say I'm Bashing the new Car. I don't like it. But I'm not calling it names, or making personal attacks, .... I'm enjoying your counter point debates and glad you're here.... at least we have 6 guys on NSXprime for the ASC to make this a debate.

In many of my post I am asking? Show me where the buzz is coming from for this car? Tell me who is going to lose market share to Acura over the ASC? Prove me wrong that Acura is going the right-way by tossing 20 years of "boy-racer" brand building into the trash by dropping the NSX and RSX and talking about going after Lexus?

I am trying to ask as many questions as I can about the ASC?
I hope someone offers some good answers. :wink:

Six years and 59 posts???? Okay it's not like I'm a posting king.

This isn't a personal attack?

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82239

Again the ASC is just a concept to show the styling direction it's not the new model. Ever thought of giving Honda a chance and waiting for the Tokyo show? If your a Honda you know they can work their magic on a Super GT and it will be awesome. Maybe they'll come back to the MR exotic maybe not. I just hope they don't stop making sportscars and don't wish to discourage them from taking a chance ,because that's what they did with the NSX:wink:

 

[ChrisK]

Oh nice. Sorry buddy but there's a demand from rich people for a Ferrari ,but most NSX owners aren't rich. Most rich people aren't buying cars for value ,but for status and this is what hurts the NSX. It's a great value and that's a problem for something that's upmarket.

That kind is sums it up right there. Most rich people (I have to consider anyone buying a $100K+ car rich) buy certain cars for status and prestige. I still believe a car like the AASCC will be over $100K. How well will its sales success be when thse rich people see higher status cars like the Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Astin all brands in which the publics perception have higher status and prestige than Acura. People will be asking why should I buy this Acura when I can buy those other cars for around the same price that have more status?

I think Honda can get away with a V10 in the $70-80K range ( hey it's wanna pay:biggrin: ) We all know Honda doesn't want to lose any more money on another NSX type vehicle..LoL

Now, I know you keep saying the AASCC could sell for that price and I truely hope so. At that price I change my tune in a heartbeat. At $70K I think the AASCC would be the bargin of the century with a carbon fiber chassis, V10, SH-AWD, and 500+ HP. Can they do it? You think they can, I think they can't, or maybe not so much can't but wont.

Again, I hope I'm wrong and this car really will sell for around $70K. I'd consider buying one just because I like coupes more than sedans. It wont be the car that replaces my NSX though. That will either be another used NSX or maybe an Audi R8 or cayman.

 

[neurobound]

With that reasoning, you're expecting the ASCC to sell better than the NSX...how? It's still a honda...as a successor, it'll likely be >$90k.

You've asked curious questions regarding why Honda would want to create another NSX - been there done that... it's not the same game this time. That was Honda's round one. The 'real' second generation NSX could have easily built upon the reputation of the original NSX and very likely the response would have been FAR more positive than the negetivity you're seeing here and in most other forums that are discussing this car (it ain't just here on Prime, that's for sure.).... The second generation NSX would now be more than just some 'import japanese car' it would have a true heritage, something for potential new buyers to reflect upon. The NSX paved the way for honda, it's too bad they're tarnishing what could have been a very powerful legacy.

Well the Hp debate is a lengthy one. 300ZX TT , Supra TT , RX7 , VR4 had plenty of hp and still went the way of the dodo before the hp wars heated up. I've never once heard anyone say the Supra wasn't fast or that it didn't have enough hp .but the NA2 NSX was still faster yet it doesn't get that same respect. Insufficient HP did not kill the NSX. It's the fact that it was a Honda priced near $90k. Noticed I said priced near $90K because it sure wasn't selling for that ask anyone that bought one new. There's actually a couple left out there for a lucky owner:biggrin:

 

[Ski_Banker]

Lol "What if the ASCC performs... REALLY performs?"

If that happens, PIGS will have flown and the whole world will come crumbling down.

Wait! I get it now!
Wingz = the only Primer interested in buying this ASCC pig.
And Pigz can't fly without Wingz!
And the ASCC, if REALLY PERFORMING, will be a "flying" PIG!

Therefore, Wingz is a Pig! Or maybe Wingz is a flying ASCC! Shoot...now I'm confused again. :tongue:

 

[WingZ]

With that reasoning, you're expecting the ASCC to sell better than the NSX...how? It's still a honda...as a successor, it'll likely be >$90k.

You've asked curious questions regarding why Honda would want to create another NSX - been there done that... it's not the same game this time. That was Honda's round one. The 'real' second generation NSX could have easily built upon the reputation of the original NSX and very likely the response would have been FAR more positive than the negetivity you're seeing here and in most other forums that are discussing this car (it ain't just here on Prime, that's for sure.).... The second generation NSX would now be more than just some 'import japanese car' it would have a true heritage, something for potential new buyers to reflect upon. The NSX paved the way for honda, it's too bad they're tarnishing what could have been a very powerful legacy.

Actually I asked why would Honda create a nother NSX if the first one didn't sell well. Yes a real "second generation" could've been made based off the NSX legacy while the NSX was still being made they didn't do that apparently they didn't want to do a "round two". Why make the cars heritage greater than Honda's.

I don't get you NSX worshippers ,because the NSX was never my dream car. Honda "made" the NSX not vice versa! It's a product...an outstanding well executed product ,but a product none the less. I see Honda as the source and since they've made several cars that I enjoy I can't wait to see what they do next. ASC is a concept of where they want to go with their next sporstcar building off the reputation that they made the NSX and that let's you know that they know how to make a great sportscar. Building off of that I think it's possible for this next car to sell. Will their next car sell? neither I nor you nor anyone else knows the future so all we can do is wait and see.

 

[WingZ]

Lol "What if the ASCC performs... REALLY performs?"

If that happens, PIGS will have flown and the whole world will come crumbling down.

Wait! I get it now!
Wingz = the only Primer interested in buying this ASCC pig.
And Pigz can't fly without Wingz!
And the ASCC, if REALLY PERFORMING, will be a "flying" PIG!

Therefore, Wingz is a Pig! Or maybe Wingz is a flying ASCC! Shoot...now I'm confused again. :tongue:

Sigh! Ski_Bankers post just proves the current saying that......"Cocaine is a hell of drug" LoL. We have to get him some help ,but that's hard because he has to want help. Please "Ski" let us help you to help you help yourself!!! put the pipe down buddy and leave the "lines" alone:wink:

 

[S-TO-8K]

If Honda manages to produce incredible performance numbers (Enzo numbers) with the ASCC would that change your opinion? If we refuse to still buy the ASCC because of the hideous looks, does that make us posers?

"what if the ascc peforms.... REALLY performs?"

Alot of Ferrari 328,348,355,360 & 430's will be left behind to look at the tail of a "hideous" beast :wink: ( so would many a AM 9 or Vanquish). Also, its potential little brother, the next gen. S2000 might be right behind to compliment Honda's racing spirit.

"If Honda manages to produce incredible performance numbers (Enzo numbers)with the ASCC would that change your opinion?"

Honda is capable, but does not necessarily need to match an Enzo's performance numbers. Honda brings value to the table. This is one of the advantages. My opinion has always been and still is biased in favour of Honda
when stacked up against Ferrari.

"If we refuse to still buy the ASCC because of the hideous looks, does that make us posers?"

We? Ah!, those that throw a temper tantrum still? :tongue:
If you can't live with the new design-don't buy it! Someone else will.

It will be an FR enthusiasts car.

 

[Da Hapa]

If we refuse to still buy the ASCC because of the hideous looks, does that make us posers?

If that's what you want to call me, so be it.

But frankly, I don't care how great a car performs if it's ugly. Passion, visual excitement, and visceral feel are all part of owning a sports car.

If sheer numbers on paper and 0-60 times were everything to me I'd have a Mitsubishi Evo and a C6 corvette in my garage right now. But I find the Evo to be ugly as sin and the C6 to be just a bit too sloppy and ham fisted for me.

 

[H-carWizKid]

I see no harm, and no foul in waiting to see what the ASCC becomes.

I like the NSX, and that is what it is. The ASCC is something else.

Long live NSX!

Philip

 

[Ponyboy]

Road & Track reports a 4.5-5.5 V10 with the ultimate goal of 500+hp, $100-150k price tag, and a 200mph potential top speed. Given the hp and SH-AWD parameters, I predict a 0-60 in the high 3's to low 4's, 1/4 in the low 12's, braking on par with the Aston Martin V8 Vantage, and the highest skidpad and slalom numbers in it's class.

And for the haters you can order professional prints of your beloved ASC here

 

[WingZ]

I see no harm, and no foul in waiting to see what the ASCC becomes.

I like the NSX, and that is what it is. The ASCC is something else.

Long live NSX!

Philip

Thanks for speaking some truth to these guys!

 

[WingZ]

Road & Track reports a 4.5-5.5 V10 with the ultimate goal of 500+hp, $100-150k price tag, and a 200mph potential top speed. Given the hp and SH-AWD parameters, I predict a 0-60 in the high 3's to low 4's, 1/4 in the low 12's, braking on par with the Aston Martin V8 Vantage, and the highest skidpad and slalom numbers in it's class.

And for the haters you can order professional prints of your beloved ASC here

Alright the level headed people are starting to chime in. I just had to hold the fort for a little while:biggrin:

 

[SugrueNSX]

So what people seem to be saying is that this new car might be cool and it might be very perfomant and it might make a hell of a replacement for the 2000 S and most people agree that it is not a replacement for the NSX. Mostly because the engine is in the wrong place.
And that is the problem right there in a nutshell. We all know that this car is not a worthy replacement for the NSX but apparently Honda does not. And as has been stated many times on Prime it’s not just all about performance. If it was we would all go out and get WRX sti or ZO6 that thing comes with a dry sump from the factory for Christ sake.
Having the engine in the middle is very noticeable for even a novice driver like me. In the slalom it makes you look good because it can change direction very quickly as the car pivots around the mass in the middle. That feels good. And the experience of having the engine 6 inches from your ear and having that superb cab forward feeling, being stuck out at the front of the car with almost nothing in front of you and the forward visibility that that affords you. Only Lambos and other exotics and helicopter pilots get to experience that.
The vast majority of people on Prime think that as an NSX replacement, this car sucks. And that is very damning because like most enthusiasts Prime members have a certain amount of brand loyalty that tends to get in the way of being totally objective. So if Prime members think it sucks then it really must suck and it does. We are not sheep we are not going to buy it just because it’s a Honda! And as for Honda not worrying about what we think because we mostly drive used cars. I believe that car companies are very interested in how their used cars are viewed and valued because it is a big part of the total cost of ownership equation when buying a new car. The more the car holds it’s price the more the manufacturer can charge for it in the first place. Honda would do very well to listen to it’s customers. Even if we are a relatively small group of enthusiasts. I believe we are more important than one might think at first. In the computer industry there is the concept of the influential consumer. He is the early adopter. The expert, the one who does the research. If you can sell to him and keep him happy he will tell all his 20 or more family and friends to buy the brand. And they will ask him because he has the reputation of the “go to guy”. I am sure as “car nuts” you experience the same thing. I work on friend’s cars and do brake jobs and such and I get asked all the time about car buying decisions. In fact only a month ago I talked my friend into a Jag and that is the second car he has bought as a direct result of my intervention.
As I said Honda would do well to listen and if they do not then they are even more stupid than they look right now.

Regards,

Patrick