What does the NSX need to be new 911-competitive

[NSX-Racer]

Maybe NSX-Racer can chime in on this one, as he probably knows that track better than any of us.

Wrong - the best for this topic is Prime member Procar Specials I guess.

 

[MvM]

I also have the article from '97 where the NSX run the Ring in 8:38.
But at that time the 911 was also in that time time-bracket.
I have heard that just changing the tarmac on the Ring will change lap-times, even for the same cars. After all, tire-grip is all about the interaction between the tire AND the road.
I also have an article on the first NSX Type R where it was stated that at that time the NSX-R had a laptime on the ring of 8:03 which was 5 seconds FASTER than the fastest laptimes of the 911 Turbo with Porsches own test-driver. And I think that any current older model NSX-owner would be able to change his NSX to more or less the old Type R spec if he wanted it. At least performance-wise.
As far as Ring-laptimes, I think even the older models should be faster than 8:38.
The S2000 was tested by Sport Auto Magazine with a laptime of 8:39 and I think that the NSX should easily be able to better that time by much more than just one second.
Maybe this is one of those cases where the driver or his familiarity with the car is very important. The 1997 test-car was a 3.2 model and in their test the 0-100mph was slower than my own runs with my 3.0 car.

 

[NSX-Racer]

I also have the article from '97 where the NSX run the Ring in 8:38..... The 1997 test-car was a 3.2 model and in their test the 0-100mph was slower than my own runs with my 3.0 car.

As I recently stated in another thread about clutches they had to stop 0-100 kph acceleration tests due to a spinning clutch - maybe they would have reached a better time than 5.5 seconds with a proper clutch. Or do you really mean the 0-160 km/h (which is roughly 100 mph) time of 13.7s?

 

[qirex]

the 997/S and 996tt/Gt2/gt3 are each incredibly complete cars.
They all have a very diff character and purpose - however they are all (cept the plain 911) overeingineered.

The turbos are insane machines, any talk of modding is a losing one when the TT or GT2 is involved - a $1000 ecu = easy 40Hp.

Hey I sat around and crunched the numbers too to see how easy it would be to take an 02 nsx and make it 997 competitive. Lucky me that i found out that "standard
996TT can be had for $80-$90k w/ low miles.

420HP stock, easily modded to 500+ w/ $5k...

i dunno, its pretty simple - if what you *really* desire is an NSX, then nothing else is comparable. If you're after speed and quickness...there's better/easier ways to go.

 

[MvM]

As I recently stated in another thread about clutches they had to stop 0-100 kph acceleration tests due to a spinning clutch - maybe they would have reached a better time than 5.5 seconds with a proper clutch. Or do you really mean the 0-160 km/h (which is roughly 100 mph) time of 13.7s?

Hi Wolfgang,

That's exactly my point. I consider the 13.7 seconds time for 0-160 kph (0-100mph) very slow for a 3.2 NSX. I have personally run 12.14 seconds for the same run with my own NSX and that is 3.0 model (measured with an AP-22 acceleration meter).
And I think I am not even close to being a better driver than those guys who do those test-runs for Sport Auto.

 

[NSX-Racer]

Maarten, please keep in mind that they have certain rules for their acceleration tests, e.g. full tank, 2 persons in the car. Did you have that too? And don't forget the influence of the different tarmac (grip) conditions as you already have mentioned.

 

[NetViper]

Hi Wolfgang,

That's exactly my point. I consider the 13.7 seconds time for 0-160 kph (0-100mph) very slow for a 3.2 NSX. I have personally run 12.14 seconds for the same run with my own NSX and that is 3.0 model (measured with an AP-22 acceleration meter).
And I think I am not even close to being a better driver than those guys who do those test-runs for Sport Auto.

Car and Driver tested the superfast silver 98 coupe @ 10.5 for 0-100MPH. Fastest I have seen. Most magazines put a 3.2 in the low 11 range and the 3.0 in the mid 12's.

 

[CerberusM5]

First of all, I believe that Car and Driver's performance test reports are generally more consistent than R&T and MT. However, I also do not believe in conspiracy theories.

With that said, following are acceleration times from the most recent copy of Road & Track:

NSX (tested 3/02)
0-60: 5.0
0-100: 12.0
1/4 mile: [email protected]

997 Carrera S (tested 3/05)
0-60: 3.9
0-100: 9.6
1/4 mile: [email protected]

R&T previously tested another Carrera S that was slower, but stated it was probably not broken in, since it only had 1200 miles on the clock.

Boxster S (tested 3/05)
0-60: 5.0
0-100: 12.2
1/4 mile 13.4@105

If these tests are accurate, the Carrera S will bury the NSX (I already knew this after a roll on with a friend's) and that darn Boxster in my rear view mirror won't get any smaller.

I need a Comptech supercharger!

 

[NetViper]

First of all, I believe that Car and Driver's performance test reports are generally more consistent than R&T and MT. However, I also do not believe in conspiracy theories.

With that said, following are acceleration times from the most recent copy of Road & Track:

NSX (tested 3/02)
0-60: 5.0
0-100: 12.0
1/4 mile: [email protected]

997 Carrera S (tested 3/05)
0-60: 3.9
0-100: 9.6
1/4 mile: [email protected]

R&T previously tested another Carrera S that was slower, but stated it was probably not broken in, since it only had 1200 miles on the clock.

Boxster S (tested 3/05)
0-60: 5.0
0-100: 12.2
1/4 mile 13.4@105

If these tests are accurate, the Carrera S will bury the NSX (I already knew this after a roll on with a friend's) and that darn Boxster in my rear view mirror won't get any smaller.

I need a Comptech supercharger!

There is no question the new 997S is faster, but I find it strange that it is faster than a GT3. The 997S weighs more and has 30 less HP. I have a hard time thinking that to be correct. Maybe they had a ringer?

R&T has consistently had the slowest tests on the NSX of any magazine. I don't know what it is about them.

And yes, you do need a CTSC. Your Trap Speed will be faster than the 997 S.

 

[CerberusM5]

There is no question the new 997S is faster, but I find it strange that it is faster than a GT3. The 997S weighs more and has 30 less HP. I have a hard time thinking that to be correct. Maybe they had a ringer?

R&T has consistently had the slowest tests on the NSX of any magazine. I don't know what it is about them.

And yes, you do need a CTSC. Your Trap Speed will be faster than the 997 S.

The thought of my NSX+CTSC being faster than the 997S and GT3 makes me :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:


I agree that it is very odd that the 997S would be quicker than the GT3 given the horsepower deficit and increased weight. I have driven both and the GT3 feels faster. The ringer idea has crossed my mind as well, but R&T said they dynoed the car and it was within factory specs.

I have seen stock GT3's dyno at 350 rwhp.

 

[nsxtasy]

There is no question the new 997S is faster, but I find it strange that it is faster than a GT3. The 997S weighs more and has 30 less HP. I have a hard time thinking that to be correct. Maybe they had a ringer?

I agree. Cars with ~350 hp and ~3300 pounds usually do 0-60 in around 4.5 seconds or so, plus or minus a tenth or two. This is the first time I've ever heard of a car with a lot less than 400 hp getting below four seconds.

 

[CerberusM5]

I was wondering what modifications the NSX would need to get its performance up to 911-level again. And I am not just talking about acceleration or topspeed but also in cornering ability etc.

To address your inquiry about cornering ability, following are skidpad/slalom figures for the NSX and 997:

Road and Track
NSX-T (tested 3/02): 0.91g/ 65.8 mph
997S (tested 3/05): 0.98g/71.7 mph

Car and Driver
NSX Zanardi (tested 7/99): 0.93g
997 (tested 12/04): 0.97g
997S (tested 11/04): 0.97g

Keep in mind that skidpad ratings are just steady state cornering figures and do not reflect how well a car feels approaching and exceeding its limit of adhesion. Slalom speed is a good indicator of a vehicle's transient handling ability, but is purely a statistical value.

For example, a Dodge Viper smokes an NSX through the slalom and around the skidpad, but its overall handling feel is nowhere as precise and rewarding as the NSX in my opinion.

So, to answer your questions. I would think the installation of a good aftermarket coilover suspension or a factory special such as the NSX-R, larger sway bars and better tires would bring the NSX at least on par with the 997 if not exceed it. But the trade off would be a reduction in ride quality compared to stock.

 

[CerberusM5]

Mod it to a Type-R and add FI.

Mark,

How does your NSX stack up with the GT3s and 996 turbos on the track given comparable drivers? Are you running faster lap times? Have you installed other suspension components in addition to the NSX-R springs/shocks?

I am assuming you have other engine parts in addition to CTSC to produce 375rwhp. What have you found out works best? How about your brakes?

I am planning to install the Comptech Sport suspension, because I feel the NSX-R is too stiff for the street. I am also getting close to pulling the trigger on the CTSC, but want to determine the best complimentary parts. Are aftermarket headers a must for max power with the CTSC? How about the Comptech intake? I have always been kind of skeptical on intakes.

Thanks.
Sandy

 

[vegasnsx]

Sandy when you get the Comptech on there we will run against my 911TT and see how you do, i think youll be suprised how quick your car will be. You could just go to Factor X and DESTROY everything, that car is just flat out scary fast!

 

[nsxtasy]

How does your NSX stack up with the GT3s and 996 turbos on the track given comparable drivers? Are you running faster lap times?

In my experience, there is no such thing as "comparable drivers". Differences in drivers are usually far, far greater than differences in the cars' capabilities.

I'm sure there are people with slower cars than Mark's, that turn faster lap times, and people with faster cars than his, that turn slower lap times. I say this with no disrespect towards Mark's ability; it's true of almost everyone I know.

 

[CerberusM5]

Sandy when you get the Comptech on there we will run against my 911TT and see how you do, i think youll be suprised how quick your car will be. You could just go to Factor X and DESTROY everything, that car is just flat out scary fast!

Hey Jason,
We definitely will need to perform a roll on from 60 to ... :wink:

Take care.
Sandy

 

[NetViper]

Hey Jason,
We definitely will need to perform a roll on from 60 to ... :wink:

Take care.
Sandy

Make sure you film it for all of us

 

[CerberusM5]

Make sure you film it for all of us

Will do. It won't be easy, but hopefully the NSX will show the 996 tt it's taillights.

 

[awsomr1]

Will do. It won't be easy, but hopefully the NSX will show the 996 tt it's taillights.

That is easy, JUST PARK IN FRONT OF IT

 

[CerberusM5]

That is easy, JUST PARK IN FRONT OF IT

Good idea. :biggrin: