What does the NSX need to be new 911-competitive

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I have been reading about the new Porsche 911 Carrera and the Carrera S models with their engines putting out 325 HP and 355 HP respectivly.
With a total weight of 1395kg/3075lbs and I think it is on a higher level of performance than the current NSX (however sad to say). When the NSX was introduced I think it outperformed the then standard 911 by some margin.
I was wondering what modifications the NSX would need to get its performance up to 911-level again. And I am not just talking about acceleration or topspeed but also in cornering ability etc.
 
Mark's on the right path. German mag "sport auto" drove the NSX-R on the Hockenheim short track with 1.14,6 which was about one second faster than the 996 P-model. I have no lap times for the 997 S yet but I would guess it in the NSX-R range. Of course the NSX-R has special compound tires which helps a lot.

I don't think that F/I is necessary to keep up. Some NA tuning may work too (ask SoS). And of course it's mainly the driver that makes the difference.
 
I read on a Porsche messageboard that the 997S circulated the Nuerburgring in just under 8 minutes (7:59 I think). I don't know who the driver was, but they thought longtime Porsche driver Walter Rohrl could possibly improve on the elapsed time.

As a reference here are some other cars I found track times on the Ring:

Honda NSX-R: 8:09
BMW M3 CSL: 7:50
Ferrari 360: 8:09
Lambo Gallardo: 7:52
MB SL55: 8:12
Porsche GT3: 7.54
Porsche GT2: 7:46
Porsche 996 turbo: 7 :56

I also read somewhere that the standard NSX took approximately 8:35+ to circulate the Ring. I don't remember the year or model, but it was definietly in excess of 8 minutes 30 seconds.

As the lap times reflect, there is a massive difference between the NSX-R's track abilities versus the standard NSX. :eek:

I would say MarkB's opinion of duplicating the NSX-R and adding forced induction would be the minimum requirements to be competitive with the likes of the 997S or GT3, at least around the Nuburgring. However, the GT2's times are untouchable no matter what you do to the NSX.
 
CerberusM5 said:
I also read somewhere that the standard NSX took approximately 8:35+ to circulate the Ring. I don't remember the year or model, but it was definetely in excess of 8 minutes 30 seconds.
Click to expand...
It was a '97 model with 3.2 l engine and Yokohama A 022 OEM tires. It ran 1.18,4 on Hockenheim short track and 8.38 on Nuerburgring (at the Supertest from german mag "sport auto", issue 8/1997).
 
CerberusM5 said:
Porsche GT2: 7:46
However, the GT2's times are untouchable no matter what you do to the NSX.
Click to expand...

If we get the JGTC 500 version, you still think the GT2 is untouchable???
But than again, can afford either so I say to compete again those car you need the NSX-R suspension set-up plus another 100whp. :biggrin:
 
NSX-Racer said:
It was a '97 model with 3.2 l engine and Yokohama A 022 OEM tires. It ran 1.18,4 on Hockenheim short track and 8.38 on Nuerburgring (at the Supertest from german mag "sport auto", issue 8/1997).
Click to expand...


NSX-Racer,

Thanks for the quote from Sport Auto. It is amazing how much faster the NSX-R is over the NSX-T. I would assume 30 seconds is an eternity, even on an 8 minute course like the Ring. Lightweight and suspension tuning sure goes a long way on the Nuerburgring. As you probably know, the M3-CSL is over 30 seconds quicker than the standard M3. I guess the M3-CSL and NSX-R have more in common than I thought. :)
 
CerberusM5 said:
NSX-Racer,

Thanks for the quote from Sport Auto. It is amazing how much faster the NSX-R is over the NSX-T.
Click to expand...
It was a cp. that ran the test - maybe the T would have been slower. As you may know the coupes are still available on this side of the pond.
 
awsomr1 said:
If we get the JGTC 500 version, you still think the GT2 is untouchable???
But than again, can afford either so I say to compete again those car you need the NSX-R suspension set-up plus another 100whp. :biggrin:
Click to expand...
I have the stock engine and drive the same laptime at Hockenheim short as the car testers from "sport auto" (better drivers than me) did with the NSX-R. Main difference: I run Yoko race slicks versus street legal competition tires on the R.
 
awsomr1 said:
If we get the JGTC 500 version, you still think the GT2 is untouchable???
But than again, can afford either so I say to compete again those car you need the NSX-R suspension set-up plus another 100whp. :biggrin:
Click to expand...

Hey James,

Believe it or not, I thought you might mention the JGTC cars on this thread. :biggrin:

But seriously, it is not fair to compare a full tilt race car like the GT500 NSX to a street car like the GT2. But I am curious how quickly the GT500 NSX would circulate the Ring. Guesses anyone?

I really have been thinking about the CTSC a lot for my NSX. Are you considering it as well for your car? It would be great to go for a ride in your car again to experience the ultimate factory suspension for the NSX when you're in Vegas on the 26th. I took the shortcut and just installed the Comptech springs recently, but it did not improve the handling much at all. I need more. I am now researching sway bars and full suspension kits again. I still leaning towards the Comptech Sport suspension due to its flexibility.

I just spoke with a friend at my local dealer. He is going to arrange for me to drive a CTSC car again. This time I will spend more time evaluating the car's power characteristics. I will keep you posted.
 
I'm also considering a CTSC for my car in the not so distant future. I'd love to get a ride in someone's car with the CTSC installed to do a comparison between a fully stock late model NSX and one with the CTSC.

As far as suspension mods, I think CT sway bars would improve handling more than just the CT springs; at least that's what Shad at CT told me this week. Here's what I'm planning to do for suspension mods:

  • CT sways and rear strutbar
  • When the stock shock start to show signs of wear, replace them with the CT - Aluminum Koni Pro Suspension Kit
 
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If the NSX had about 385 hp I think it would be wonderfully competitive. That would put it back among the supercars.
 
I thought the NSX-R did a 7:54 at the Nurburgring? I know I've got the video somewhere...
 
CerberusM5 said:
Hey James,

Believe it or not, I thought you might mention the JGTC cars on this thread. :biggrin:

But seriously, it is not fair to compare a full tilt race car like the GT500 NSX to a street car like the GT2. But I am curious how quickly the GT500 NSX would circulate the Ring. Guesses anyone?

I really have been thinking about the CTSC a lot for my NSX. Are you considering it as well for your car? It would be great to go for a ride in your car again to experience the ultimate factory suspension for the NSX when you're in Vegas on the 26th. I took the shortcut and just installed the Comptech springs recently, but it did not improve the handling much at all. I need more. I am now researching sway bars and full suspension kits again. I still leaning towards the Comptech Sport suspension due to its flexibility.

I just spoke with a friend at my local dealer. He is going to arrange for me to drive a CTSC car again. This time I will spend more time evaluating the car's power characteristics. I will keep you posted.
Click to expand...

I agree, but how much is the GT2 (I have no idea, not much of a Porsche fan)??? Will the difference in price make our NSX just as fast or faster???
The R suspension is about $1700, plus the sway-bars will be right around $2200. Just to get 30-40 more HP we can consider SOS stage 2 kit around 3K plus labor. Loose some weight and that would make us in par with the Porsche???
 
awsomr1 said:
I agree, but how much is the GT2 (I have no idea, not much of a Porsche fan)??? Will the difference in price make our NSX just as fast or faster???
The R suspension is about $1700, plus the sway-bars will be right around $2200. Just to get 30-40 more HP we can consider SOS stage 2 kit around 3K plus labor. Loose some weight and that would make us in par with the Porsche???
Click to expand...

James,
I like how you think. I have been thinking about modding my car night and day. I still am not sure if I am hardcore enough for the NSX-R suspension, but I will definitely change out my suspension for a full aftermarket setup soon. What is included in the SOS stage 2? I am not familiar with the package. I have also thought about ways of reducing weight in my car as well. I will probably need to go back to the factory wheels if I am serious about a weight loss program.

My goal is eclipse the overall performance of the GT3 or at least match it. It will not be easy and will require the CTSC, full performance suspension, and BBK for a start. Currently, I am formulating my plan of how how to reach this goal.

By the way, the GT2 has an MSRP of around $190k, but you can find a used 02' for about $135k if you look carefully. It truly is an amazing car. Then again, I am biased, I love Porsche cars among many others. I would guess an FX500 car would be faster in acceleration to maybe 140 mph, but as an overall package (acceleration, braking, handling and overall feel) the GT2 would be superior, but then again it costs $100k more.

I have my sights set on the GT3. :biggrin:
 
CerberusM5 said:
But seriously, it is not fair to compare a full tilt race car like the GT500 NSX to a street car like the GT2. But I am curious how quickly the GT500 NSX would circulate the Ring. Guesses anyone?
Click to expand...
Little hint: The JGTC NSX for the 24 hour race last year at the Nuerburgring (with reduced power and some technical problems) had a qualifying time of about 8.54 for the Nordschleife and the short GP track together about 11 seconds slower than the later winner BMW GTR (stuck etc.).
 
It should not be to hard to beat a GT3 with some suspension mods and a CTSC.

For example, MarkB's 3.2L makes 375RWHP. The GT3 makes 380 at the crank.

I think the NSX with a 3.6L V6 375HP and 300lbs/TQ would easily outpace a 997S.
 
demigod said:
I have that video too, it did a 7:56.
Click to expand...

That would be an amazing time for an NSX. Under 8 minutes in an NSX-R would be phenomenal, but is this true? This would be over 40 seconds faster than a standard NSX. :eek:

Is the NSX-R really that magical compared to our NSXs? There definitely has to be other factors involved such as driver skill level and tire compounds to be that much faster I would think. From an acceleration standpoint, the R should not be that much faster than the standard version. It has to be carrying a lot more speed through the corners to have a 40 second advantage.
 
CerberusM5 said:
That would be an amazing time for an NSX. Under 8 minutes in an NSX-R would be phenomenal, but is this true? This would be over 40 seconds faster than a standard NSX. :eek:
Click to expand...

Everytime I mention the 7:56 on other sites, they always say it was not a legit run, but nobody has every proved why not. They say they did not start in the right location or something??? Anyone know?
 
NetViper said:
Everytime I mention the 7:56 on other sites, they always say it was not a legit run, but nobody has every proved why not. They say they did not start in the right location or something??? Anyone know?
Click to expand...

Maybe NSX-Racer can chime in on this one, as he probably knows that track better than any of us. But I do know that the start and the ending are in different places.
 
NsXMas said:
I've never really liked the 911, in terms of style. I think that alone makes the NSX 911 competitive for me. Of course, if they could make it Z06 competitive...
Click to expand...

The only way to make the current NSX competitive with the new Z06 is a with a low-compression motor and a turbo!

The 911 S is a much more relalistic target IMO. I think Honda could do it if it wanted.
 

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