Virginia Tech shooting

[nsxotic911]

Hopefully I'm not going to be upsetting anyone or considered hijacking the thread by these comments...

I think this is a classic debate on the values and costs of 'open society' and how to balance freedom and security/protection measures (ex: Homeland Security..).

Too much 'freedom' and you limit the government in finding out who is a risk to society and who is not. Too little freedom and you have a authoritarian government (no guns, no anti-government views, no private media, human rights violation etc..)

Although a full investigation will be needed, I think some of the big errors here are:
1.) Campus Police did not have guns (WTF?) Enough said... 2.) The writtings made by the killer in regards to violence were not taken seriously enough (http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/)

On #2 - I strongly believe that people that make violent threats and/or hold violent views should be taken very seriously, documented, and action taken to hold those accountable and/or mitigate the possibility that they will be carried out - even if it means that 'freedom of speech' is not granted. It should be in the same category as sexual harassement, and even more serious. Zero tolerance.

History has shown over and over again that the threats made by megalomaniacs often become reality.... and like Columbine... there were many warning signs, 'we' failed to give them enough wait.

Again - I hope I have not upset anyone by making these comments.. I am saddened as well by the tragedy...

 

[Vega$ NSX]

1.) Campus Police did not have guns (WTF?) Enough said...

I'm not sure where you are getting this. I clearly state in my previous post above that while I was a student there, both the campus police and the Blacksburg police carried guns. In fact, VaTech is also under Virginia State Police and the Highway Troopers jurisdiction. The running joke was that the cops were so vigilant in writing tickets that if you parked illegally for more than 10 minutes, you would have 4 sets of parking violation tickets, one for each jurisdiction. As I stated before, I don’t think it was a case of not enough cops packing enough heat. It just caught everyone off guard. That is the last place you would expect something like that to go down.

2.) The writtings made by the killer in regards to violence were not taken seriously enough (http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/)

I'm not sure where you are getting this either. This article states that some people tried to help him or encouraged him to seek help. But as they correctly state, you can't put a gun to thier head (no pun intended) and force them to get help. Likewise, you can't take every person with devious thoughts to jail either. Otherwise, Stephen King and Rob Zombie would have been carted off years ago.

Not tryingto argue, just trying to clear up some information that my not be entirely accurate.

 

[LJSB]

One thing occurred to me while reading the stories about students trying to close the classroom doors and actually having a push war with the shooter trying to keep him out.

Steel fire doors that can lock would have been a blessing for those trying to keep this madman out of their classrooms.

If a school needs to go into lock-down, shouldn't the doors lock and be sufficient to keep gunfire, explosion shrapnel, fire or perpetrators out?

They could still have emergency push bars so that the people inside could easily open and escape if needed.

This is such a sad, sickening situation.

 

[Ryanmcd2]

Round 2 today.

 

[ajnsx]

Sympathies to the affected. Needless deaths.:frown:

This sickens me. How can someone be so selfish, to take the lives of so many innocent people.

American government meet Iraq.:redface:

 

[Hal_396]

From what I am hearing, this guy could have been the one that sent one of our members JDMnsxR that crappy e-mail. The time frame sounds likre it.Ref: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86547

 

[Da Hapa]

American government meet Iraq.:redface:

Totally in appropriate in this thread mate.

 

[ajnsx]

Apologies.:smile:

 

[JadeFox]

Bullet-proof and easily locked doors is one of the best suggestions for countering this type of madness. I was thinking back to my days at UCLA, and it's true that if a gunman had entered and controlled the exits, it would be an easy massacre for him. Maybe schools should take the appropriate measures to protect students.

On a side note, my girlfriend said her professor was freaked today when someone from the outside was tugging and turning the door knob hard. Turns out a janitor needed to fix the knob and was testing it. The professor's face turned white and she mentioned how she froze b/c the doors could only be locked by key from the outside. Students are sitting ducks in a classroom now that I think about it.

 

[AutoVation]

I'm a VT alum as well. I graduated with an ESM degree and Dr Librescu was one of my senior advisors back in 1995. I also took Israeli self defense classes from his son Joe as well. They are both great people and I feel a great sense of sadness for him, his family, and the other victims at this time.

Almost all of my classes for my junior and senior years were in Norris Hall. I know it's cliche but it still seems so surreal that this could happen there. I want to say thanks to Prime for the VT banner at the top of the page, it really means a lot to me and I'm sure to everyone connected to VT that sees it. This is a great community.

As a Virginia Tech Alumnus, this really saddens me. As a mechanical engineer graduate from Tech, I had many classes at Norris Hall where the shooting took place. I also had friends at Ambler Johnson (AJ) which I visted frequently in my undergrad years. As I watch the clips of the live news reports it brings back memories of areas where I used to walk to class. I think back to sitting in some the same classrooms and seats where people were shot and killed. The happy thoughts and memories of those places are now replaced with thoughts of horror and bloodshed. What's so sad is that people will make Virginia Tech and Blacksburg synonymous with words like slaughter and massacre, just like Colombine, and overlook what a kind, friendly, beautiful, peaceful and serene place it really is. It really is a sad tragedy. My Hokie heart bleeds Maroon and Orange today.

 

[deedubb]

Here are some links to some of the victim's myspace. Very sad to read some of the comments:

Ross http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=6266415


Mary

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=49420524

Maxine Turner

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=32520437


R.I.P.

 

[heySkippy]

Bullet-proof and easily locked doors is one of the best suggestions for countering this type of madness.

Maybe it's easier said than done, but I think we should train our children to do more in their own defense. I'm not talking about arming everyone, but it seems like there surely might have been opportunities for a small group to rush the bad guy.

 

[IsR]

Here are some links to some of the victim's myspace. Very sad to read some of the comments:

R.I.P.

:frown: Very sad indeed. Condolences. Devastating to loss any friends...

 

[Knox]

I guess most have heard that he sent vid's to NBC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18183995/

 

[clr1024]

I guess most have heard that he sent vid's to NBC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18183995/

Twisted SOB

 

[mohaji]

Truly sad, and twisted event..

My condolenses to the victims and their families..
When I read about the professior who tried to block the a-hole to allow some time for his students to escape and dying in the process, it truly warmed my heart..

I agree with bodypainter that at least some form of self-defense education is needed.. may not have helped, but something is always better than nothing.

Another worry of mine, is the fact that he is korean..
He is a disgrace and shame to my countrymen, but I feel it may be over emplified in media..

I truly hope there isn't any riots or discrimination against koreans for his act of lunacy.


.. this may not be appropriate time to mention this.. but did the news say he used Walter pistol(along with Glock), same as James Bonds'?

anyway.. bastard should burn in hell.

 

[Maximus_NSX]

No words can express the sorrow I feel for the victims. Being of Korean ancestry, it is a day that we (Koreans) will live in shame. I know that it was one sick individual who was responsible for the chaos, but deep within, I feel a strong sense of shame, disgust, and sorrow. Koreans are proud people and take events like this really hard. When I called my parents and asked them about their thoughts, they couldn't even speak. It was as if their own son did this. Koreans living here and abroad feel the same way. I just hope and pray that the victims are at peace and the families will someday look upon this evil act as a terrible event perpetrated by one very sick individual and not blame the Korean community at large. May the victims rest in peace. May the shooter burn in hell.

 

[H-carWizKid]

Another worry of mine, is the fact that he is korean..
He is a disgrace and shame to my countrymen, but I feel it may be over emplified in media..

I truly hope there isn't any riots or discrimination against koreans for his act of lunacy.

I have noticed the emphasis on his nationality in the media as well, almost as if the media is disowning him as "American".

He was maintaining a dual citizenship, but my understanding was that he had lived the majority of his life here.

The fact is He was a psychopath, but he was a green card carrying citizen of this nation- entitled to the privledges of that status. That is how he legally came into possession of the firearms used in this atrocity.

I echo your hopes that this will not cause any discriminatory attitudes toward Koreans. I for one think that this was the act of a twisted individual, and is in no way reflective of ethnicity, or nationality.

This is a terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to all who are affected. This whole thing seems surreal.

Philip

 

[Hal_396]

I doubt anybody is going to blame someone that is of Korean descent for this tragedy. All society's have there crack pots. This time it just happened to be a guy with Korean ancestry.:frown:

remember WACO, Lubby's, Columbine, Texas school house, Oklahoma City, etc.etc... The list seems endless anymore.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Boy, as the events unfold, it keeps hitting closer to home for me. First Virginia Tech and Engineering and now the killer is Korean American, which is what I am. His parents are from Northern Va, which is where my parents are. My folks vaguely know of his parents who own a dry cleaning business. They attempted to commit suicide out of shame of the events. What a tragedy.

 

[clr1024]

I have noticed the emphasis on his nationality in the media as well, almost as if the media is disowning him as "American".

He was maintaining a dual citizenship

I don't think he was an American citizen, I think he was a permanent resident which would only make him Korean.

In any case I would like to think people are smart enough to seperate the issue from the race as it has been said there crack pots in every race...although sometimes I am not so sure, I am of Indian descent and was in Texas, Houston and Dallas, for work on 911...not a great place to be when travelling from Dallas to Houston and stopping at some small highway gas stations, was working with another Indian.

 

[Zishan]

I didn't think that the Media played up the fact that he was Korean. I think that really is irrelevant. I do feel that this will lead to some insults/raciest remarks in schools and such places towards Asians though.

Now, if it were a Middle Eastern student, or a Muslim student, I am fairly certain the media would have elaborated so much more on it. I'm glad it's not, we (Muslims) already have enough stereotypes. :frown:

Just a sad sad situation. My heartaches hearing about the victims. :frown:

 

[H-carWizKid]

I don't think he was an American citizen, I think he was a permanent resident which would only make him Korean.

You are correct- the news article I read refered to him as a "Resident Alien"

"Even though Cho is a resident alien, Markell said, it was legal for him to purchase a firearm, and he presented three forms of identification: a driver's license, a checkbook with an address matching the driver's license, and a resident alien card. Cho moved to the United States from South Korea at age 8."

This must be why the news always qualifies him as South Korean.

It may have been my misperception that they were creating a distance.

Philip

 

[SFMarine0311]

This cho guy had severe issues. They should have kicked him out of school the first time he was cited for the harassment. Those video's on nbc are very disturbing.

 

[mohaji]

It's pretty sad, but apparently, my sister in NJ is feeling little pressure for being korean right now due to this issue..

As a member pointed above, some issues between students are already happening against korean...

tsk.. I hope all people involved will find peace soon.