Vick: "...he's a good human being. "

BenDF said:
Yes, that means I still think he should still be able to seek employment in the NFL if any team would even have him.
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Oh, I'm sure someone will hire him again. Name one professional sports team that is so altruistic that it will fire someone [for a crime] that is otherwise capable of making money for them. (with the exception of Michael Rasmussen who was fired by the Rabobank team, but is now in talks to be hired by Acqua & Sapone)
 
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Hothonda said:
He's toast now thank goodness!

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/spo...ce7f13f4390770&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
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I don't, in ANY way, condone what Vick has admitted to doing. Not even close. It's pretty sick.

BUT...

This has NOTHING (directly) to do with his career and employer. He absolutely should NOT be banned by the NFL. If no one wants to pick him up, after his jailtime, fine... but let NFL franchise owners judge his merits and reputational risks individually.

At the end of the day -- most of you monkey around on Prime occasionally at work. Probably speed sometimes. Maybe even drink and drive on rare occasions. Those STUPID, POOR decisions should (generally) have nothing do to with your income.

So let Vick have his day in court. He may be a fool, but shouldn't wind up unemployed too.
 
Ko-NSX:

Dogfighting is a black "sport". I grew up in the south. White folks don't participate. And, unfortunately, it is not all that rare of a pastime.

We can all draw our own conclusions, maybe one of these:

1. Michael Vick is most likely black
2. Dogfighting is bad (and illegal)
3. Vick got caught

The only real racial tensions I see around this Vick ordeal is that this is a predominantly black sport. Which it is. Like bullfighting being Spanish and Mexican. It's culture that white folks don't agree with.

Therefore, let Vick go to trial and probably spend some time in the slammer. And then let him come out with a better understanding of his role-model status, and let him play some good football. God knows VT needs a little luck these days.
 
Ski_Banker said:
I don't, in ANY way, condone what Vick has admitted to doing. Not even close. It's pretty sick.

BUT...

This has NOTHING (directly) to do with his career and employer. He absolutely should NOT be banned by the NFL. If no one wants to pick him up, after his jailtime, fine... but let NFL franchise owners judge his merits and reputational risks individually.

At the end of the day -- most of you monkey around on Prime occasionally at work. Probably speed sometimes. Maybe even drink and drive on rare occasions. Those STUPID, POOR decisions should (generally) have nothing do to with your income.

So let Vick have his day in court. He may be a fool, but shouldn't wind up unemployed too.
Click to expand...

This is the same deal as SSgt. Michelle Manhart who posed for playboy and was relieved of her duty by the Air Force. Everyone thru a fit because the USAF discharged her for her actions saying that she did no wrong. In actuality (and ironically considering she was an AF Technical Instructor who's job was to teach new recruits the rules and regulations of the USAF) it specifically states that members of the USAF will in no way (by ones own actions) bring shame or disrespect to the uniform, the service, or their country. It also states that the only places we are allowed to wear our uniforms while NOT on duty are short stops on the way home to places like gas stations, grocery stores, etc (Not in an adult magazine photospread).

What I'm trying to get at is Michael Vick is a well known professional football player, he isnt known for anything else but that, and his actions can/could/ be reflected upon the NFL. This is why he was banned, the NFL dosent want the image that they support criminal activities (or at least thats what i gather they are thinking when they handed down his suspension).
 
Vick is a piece of crap; he should be given the maximum sentence allowed by Federal guidelines, banned from playing for the NFL and then burned, drowned, shot, hung, dragged by a car, etc. (what he did to those dogs). Anyone (other than a defense lawyer doing his job) that defends the actions of this pond scum deserve to suffer the same consequences.
 
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Cairo94507 said:
Vick is a piece of crap; he should be given the maximum sentence allowed by Federal guidelines, banned from playing for the NFL and then burned, drowned, shot, hung, dragged by a car, etc. (what he did to those dogs). Anyone (other than a defense lawyer doing his job) that defends the actions of this pond scum deserve to suffer the same consequences.
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Why not the lawyer? Those guys are just as bad. :wink:
 
Well, the short answer is if he is not represented by competent counsel, trial or plea deal, the matter could be overturned by the Court of Appeals and he might escape punishment. So I say give him a good attorney, one who does the best job he can, then when Vick is sentenced to whatever, it is a done deal. I do not fault the lawyer for doinghis job; I fault Vick for being a piece of crap who had the means to be a better person and wasn't.
 
Cairo94507 said:
I do not fault the lawyer for doinghis job; I fault Vick for being a piece of crap who had the means to be a better person and wasn't.
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I guess people don't know sarcasm anymore when they see it...
 
Ko-nsx said:
I agree with marbury. UFC and Pride fighting are no different than dog fighting.
Click to expand...

Did someone ask the dog if he wanted to go into a cage to fight another pitbull and possibly die?

Did that dog then say yes and willingly walk into the ring?

Was the losing dog able to tap and walk out?

Was there a vet and a ref ensuring both fighters are safe?

How on earth can you compare a thing like mixed martial arts practiced by trained willing participants to the disgusting thing called dog fighting where the dog has no choice?

Do you know what it takes to train a pit bull that has a naturally gentle demeanor to become a violent creature like that? Do you know about the older dogs that are used as "bait" to make the pitbull angry and then given to the pitbull to tear apart as "practice"? did those animals have a say in their fate?

I have personally seen footage of an older german shepherd thrown into a ring with a savagely raised pitbull to be mercilessly killed. That dog was a gentle dog that was someone's pet at some point. What did he do to deserve that fate? We have a member here who is grieving because he just lost his German Shepherd. I hope he does not read this thread.
 
At the end, Vick is black and he is up against the whole country of whites trying to make an example out of him (due to his status and stupidity).
THAT IS THE REALITY PEOPLE!

PS. don't try to tell me that there's no racism in the country... because it's BS. I know it and you know it, so just deal with it.... NO crying for your bad judgement.
 
eh I don't think that's correct. If it were Roethlisberger, he'd still be flamed all the same. Dogs hit a sweet spot with people.
 
Just out of curiosity, where is the line when it comes to killing animals between being a normal person and an a-hole that deserves to rot in jail?

Not trying to defend Vick here but let's reflect. Some people hunt deer for sport. Some people raise pigs as pets and claim they are smarter then dogs, yet pigs are also raised for food. Cows are sacred in Hinduism yet we consume them on a regular basis. Dogs are sources of food in other cultures. Octopus and squid are very intelligent creatures. Is it intelligent creatures that can be our friends that we cannot kill?

Is it more humane to kill an animal for sport or is it more humane to kill it quickly and then consume its body parts and pass it through our lower intestines?

I have friends who are true vegans because they love animals and all things living. These guys won't even kill bugs. I feel that being an omnivore I would also be a hypocrite if I criticized Vick for what he did, especially in their presence. In someone's eyes, we're not all angels either. None of us would probably give the OK to kill a dog but we sure gave the OK to slaughter Nelly and put her on our dinner plate. Food for thought. :)
 
Ski_Banker said:
I don't, in ANY way, condone what Vick has admitted to doing. Not even close. It's pretty sick.

BUT...

This has NOTHING (directly) to do with his career and employer. He absolutely should NOT be banned by the NFL. If no one wants to pick him up, after his jailtime, fine... but let NFL franchise owners judge his merits and reputational risks individually.

At the end of the day -- most of you monkey around on Prime occasionally at work. Probably speed sometimes. Maybe even drink and drive on rare occasions. Those STUPID, POOR decisions should (generally) have nothing do to with your income.

So let Vick have his day in court. He may be a fool, but shouldn't wind up unemployed too.
Click to expand...

well put :)
 
TURBO2GO said:
Did someone ask the dog if he wanted to go into a cage to fight another pitbull and possibly die?

Did that dog then say yes and willingly walk into the ring?

Was the losing dog able to tap and walk out?

Was there a vet and a ref ensuring both fighters are safe?

How on earth can you compare a thing like mixed martial arts practiced by trained willing participants to the disgusting thing called dog fighting where the dog has no choice?

Do you know what it takes to train a pit bull that has a naturally gentle demeanor to become a violent creature like that? Do you know about the older dogs that are used as "bait" to make the pitbull angry and then given to the pitbull to tear apart as "practice"? did those animals have a say in their fate?

I have personally seen footage of an older german shepherd thrown into a ring with a savagely raised pitbull to be mercilessly killed. That dog was a gentle dog that was someone's pet at some point. What did he do to deserve that fate? We have a member here who is grieving because he just lost his German Shepherd. I hope he does not read this thread.
Click to expand...


Not really comparing the 2 just agreeing with some of Marbury's statement.

Does anyone know what happens to greyhounds when they don't perform as expected?
 
NA1/2-R said:
At the end, Vick is black and he is up against the whole country of whites trying to make an example out of him (due to his status and stupidity).
THAT IS THE REALITY PEOPLE!

PS. don't try to tell me that there's no racism in the country... because it's BS. I know it and you know it, so just deal with it.... NO crying for your bad judgement.
Click to expand...


i agree. Racism does exit put i enjoy the life i have. I'm in vegas and i was reading the newspaper and saw how the NFL is going to try to get back his signing bonus and other monies paid to him. He hasn't even been to court and the money has been cut. He will speak on The Tom Joyner Show tues.
 
Malibu Rapper said:
Just out of curiosity, where is the line when it comes to killing animals between being a normal person and an a-hole that deserves to rot in jail?

Not trying to defend Vick here but let's reflect. Some people hunt deer for sport. Some people raise pigs as pets and claim they are smarter then dogs, yet pigs are also raised for food. Cows are sacred in Hinduism yet we consume them on a regular basis. Dogs are sources of food in other cultures. Octopus and squid are very intelligent creatures. Is it intelligent creatures that can be our friends that we cannot kill?

Is it more humane to kill an animal for sport or is it more humane to kill it quickly and then consume its body parts and pass it through our lower intestines?

I have friends who are true vegans because they love animals and all things living. These guys won't even kill bugs. I feel that being an omnivore I would also be a hypocrite if I criticized Vick for what he did, especially in their presence. In someone's eyes, we're not all angels either. None of us would probably give the OK to kill a dog but we sure gave the OK to slaughter Nelly and put her on our dinner plate. Food for thought. :)
Click to expand...

Interesting point.
Are you suggesting that perhaps since the actions of Vick might be acceptable within his own culture, that others should not be insensitive and infringe on his right of expression? That our society in these United States should broaden it's tolerance and perhaps accept the activities of Vick as his reasonable right?
 
Why is dog-fighting a FEDERAL crime? Federal crimes used to be reserved for important issues that affected the entire country or federal government, like counterfeiting, murdering the President, treason, etc. Dog-fighting??? How does that affect the federal government? So much for our founding fathers idea of limited government.
 
NA1/2-R said:
At the end, Vick is black and he is up against the whole country of whites trying to make an example out of him (due to his status and stupidity).
THAT IS THE REALITY PEOPLE!

PS. don't try to tell me that there's no racism in the country... because it's BS. I know it and you know it, so just deal with it.... NO crying for your bad judgement.
Click to expand...


For some people the Vick dogfighting etc. issue is viewed as criminal injustice and how the system's priorities are stacked against the Blacks......For most people the only issue on the table is criminal justice. Vick was indicted & plead guilty. If Vick thought he was innocent we'd be looking at a jury trial.

If some White NFL quarterback pulled the same crap he'd get the same hammer as Vick is going to get.

As far as recovering the $ it's doubtful there's any left to get. I'd bet his business decisions have been on par with his personal ones.
 
Malibu Rapper said:
Just out of curiosity, where is the line when it comes to killing animals between being a normal person and an a-hole that deserves to rot in jail?

Not trying to defend Vick here but let's reflect. Some people hunt deer for sport. Some people raise pigs as pets and claim they are smarter then dogs, yet pigs are also raised for food. Cows are sacred in Hinduism yet we consume them on a regular basis. Dogs are sources of food in other cultures. Octopus and squid are very intelligent creatures. Is it intelligent creatures that can be our friends that we cannot kill?

Is it more humane to kill an animal for sport or is it more humane to kill it quickly and then consume its body parts and pass it through our lower intestines?

I have friends who are true vegans because they love animals and all things living. These guys won't even kill bugs. I feel that being an omnivore I would also be a hypocrite if I criticized Vick for what he did, especially in their presence. In someone's eyes, we're not all angels either. None of us would probably give the OK to kill a dog but we sure gave the OK to slaughter Nelly and put her on our dinner plate. Food for thought. :)
Click to expand...

I don't mean to sound arrogant or condescending, but you seem to have a case of moral confusion. (not uncommon these days)
The line is drawn between a normal person that kills or eats animals as a means of sustenance (any mentally healthy hunter does not enjoy watching an animal die), and a sicko that enjoys watching an animal suffer as a form of entertainment. That's sick.

Another case of moral confusion is when someone holds an animal (or bug) in equal regard as a human being. (Rapists, murderers, and other human debris not included)

Please don't feel that you are a hypocrite for criticizing someone like Michael Vick. He is a sick man that enjoys watching animals suffer and die for kicks. Unless you also get your kicks that way, then by definition you are not a hypocrite. Eating an animal for food is not even in the same category.
 
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ericwgnsx said:
The line is drawn between a normal person that kills or eats animals as a means of sustenance (any mentally healthy hunter does not enjoy watching an animal die), and a sicko that enjoys watching an animal suffer as a form of entertainment. That's sick.

Please don't feel that you are a hypocrite for criticizing someone like Michael Vick. He is a sick man that enjoys watching animals suffer and die for kicks. Unless you also get your kicks that way, then by definition you are not a hypocrite. Eating an animal for food is not even in the same category.
Click to expand...

I'm playing Devil's advocate here so play along. I still don't quite see that line between someone who kills an animal vs someone who eats it as a means of sustenance. I guess I lost those debates with my vegan friends who convinced me I'm actually killing those animals, albeit indirectly. I'm too squeamish to do it myself so I rely on the meat industry to do it for me. I know I have a choice to eat meat or go vegan everyday but I choose to eat animals because they are so tasty. So my only defense in all of this is that it's natural. Some people think baboons are herbivores but they routinely hunt other animals and eat meat as do many other animals. So killing for food is completely natural.

I think a lot of the reaction to Vick's dilemma is that he's dealing with animals that are close to our hearts. People are passionate about dogs. We'd freak out if another country began a meatpacking industry using canines similar to what we do with the bovine. The same way Hindus must look at us when they see us slaughter their sacred animals.

So I understand your point about killing an animal for food (not survival nowadays) vs enjoying watching it die. But Vick's problem is at a different level, he's probably enjoying the "sport" vs enjoying watching an animal die in his hands the way a serial killer enjoys watching his victims die. Is it wrong? Yes. But it's up to interpretation and acceptance as to how wrong it really is. Most people turn a blind eye to cockfighting. Ever watch that show on Animal Planet about the animal cops who bust people who abuse their pets? What they've done is way worse and they'll get a 5 minute segment on a channel that nobody watches and pay a fine. But the big story is about Vick...
 

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