Tim, I will be interested on one.
Gary
Gary
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Group Buy Variable Manual Rack - Feel a little F1 tech in your hands
- Thread starter liftnot
- Start date
Hola Dave,
A little birdy told us the EPS is very heavy at 40lbs+(???). the oem manual rack is no more than 15lbs. The new rack most likely be lighter but not heavier than oem.
The same birdy told us the EPS rack shares the same pick up points as the manual rack so it should be a bolt on without fiddling. Can't imaging Honda made two different chassis just for this.
IFF we get enough people to commit to have the economy of scale to make a complete bolt on rack for all years, the EPS can be replaced by this new rack. That is the ideal condition so the EPS folks can experience what a world class, variable steering rack feels like without having the normal "nemesis" of the oem rack we know over the years. Making a new rack is much more than have access to a machine shop and MVO is the defacto steering source. They are not cheap because they are the best.
Yes. IFF we get 100 to commit, thats $25 for the R and the D is another $25(if we like the R). Now if we get 200, thats $12.50 for the R. and the D is $12.5. This amount is nothing compare to some of us spent on rice that only looks fast.
This is NOT like going to a steering rack maker like Woodward and negotiate a price we want to pay. This connection to MVO took a long time to materialize as top racing teams don't reveal what and who they use for their parts. This is an unique technology that is proven and surely be better than the fix, slow ratio rack we currently have. Try not to see it as "donation" as the early adopters understand what this is about and will benefit from the 1st GB thus contributing to the R&D. If this 1st GB is complete, the next GB will not be the same price for the late adopters, that is the reward for the 1st adopters. The way things are going, it will be a while before we reach 100 so this may never happen but the option is there and the source is top notch. I don't think they would bother with us if our car is not an iconic sports car as analogy/low hp as it is. If we reach 200, would the price come down to $1000 or less? Very possible but we need to have a solid number to go back to ask for a new quote. We(Prime) need to show them we are serious about the rack more than trying to get a cheaper price and end up showing us the door.:frown:
Steering feel IS indeed the #1 must on a real sports car like ours along with shifter to make your feel one with the car and the driving is much more enjoyable.
We at P2F would not offer/make any part if its not worthy of a real upgrade and work well for street and for track over oem. Pass the word on Dave, the more we have, the less price we'll pay, exponentially. :wink: Thx for your interests.
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- Joined
- 16 March 2007
- Messages
- 98
I'm in for the $25 developmental fee. Here's hoping we get enough interest!
Todd
Todd
100 is a tough number to reach but doable. You need to reach out beyond this forum to NSX GB, and all facebook pages. Some of the guys interested are not even here. I understand you are convinced this is the right approach but I'm not 100% sold, I'm just quite intrigued about saving weight and possibly improving the car. The steering on this car is already quite good is the thing... How much better can it get? I already believe half the feel is killed with the airbag and large wheel. Changing ratio by wheel size and removing 15 pounds of dead weight helps it come alive. You're basically saying we can spend another $1000 to $2000 and get something even more superior. It would have to be pretty stellar...
What's your role here? You're helping facilitate this but what's in it for you? I'm asking because R&D costs for new items are generally absorbed by the vendor to make a profit later. I do like all your work and performance products, please don't take any comments personally.. I'm just askin to know not being critical. I'm just trying to clarify.
What's your role here? You're helping facilitate this but what's in it for you? I'm asking because R&D costs for new items are generally absorbed by the vendor to make a profit later. I do like all your work and performance products, please don't take any comments personally.. I'm just askin to know not being critical. I'm just trying to clarify.
Addressing your Q this way:
All of our product are always built focused on lower wt. lower CoG, better PMI, lower MOI, better efficiency using better material & technology so end-user can feel the improvement all the time. We have a few more upgrades planned besides the steering rack but our motto doesn't always agree with everyone.
For the record, we are "ok" with the oem manual rack but we know it has been a concern in the past(see link below) and there hasn't been a proper solution until now. The sports car demon in us want to see & feel what a lower, variable ratio rack is like made by the best in the business based on a great chassis, thats all. Obviously its not a bang for the buck upgrade.
We are trying to solve a yesterday's problem with today's solution. We are honored to work with MVO to establish a relationship, if this doesn't happen, perhaps our next sports car can benefit.
We have the NSX-R steering wheel and lost 15lbs but that doesn't change the fact the oem ratio is still high. It was a cheap "bang for the buck" approach. Now there is nothing wrong with the slower ratio oem rack if you like it so why fix it when its not broke as many people don't care to improve it so we agree with you, why spend $1k/$2k and gain what? That is the Q you have to answer yourself. We are not here trying to convince you. With all the info posted, how much more superior will this rack be? We have to wait for the MVO assessment to find out. We know enough not to blow any smoke just because "we want it".
>I'm asking because R&D costs for new items are generally absorbed by the vendor to make a profit later.
We are at their mercy. There is no future profit to be made for this car from their perspective. We are lucky they are talking to us. No world class vendor cares for a qty of 100 or 200. This contact was hard to come by thru persistence and over time. If we were a chassis maker like Dallara for a top class racing series, then it makes more sense for them to do what you said but this is not the case here.
>whats in it for us?
we want all the NSX owner to feel what a low ratio, variable steering rack feels like on a great car. Its not sexy HP/dyno/boost/SC/turbo talk so we know it may never take off but thats beside the point. If we make any money, it goes back to develop the next product.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...r-steering-ratio?highlight=steering+rack+sale
All of our product are always built focused on lower wt. lower CoG, better PMI, lower MOI, better efficiency using better material & technology so end-user can feel the improvement all the time. We have a few more upgrades planned besides the steering rack but our motto doesn't always agree with everyone.
For the record, we are "ok" with the oem manual rack but we know it has been a concern in the past(see link below) and there hasn't been a proper solution until now. The sports car demon in us want to see & feel what a lower, variable ratio rack is like made by the best in the business based on a great chassis, thats all. Obviously its not a bang for the buck upgrade.
We are trying to solve a yesterday's problem with today's solution. We are honored to work with MVO to establish a relationship, if this doesn't happen, perhaps our next sports car can benefit.
We have the NSX-R steering wheel and lost 15lbs but that doesn't change the fact the oem ratio is still high. It was a cheap "bang for the buck" approach. Now there is nothing wrong with the slower ratio oem rack if you like it so why fix it when its not broke as many people don't care to improve it so we agree with you, why spend $1k/$2k and gain what? That is the Q you have to answer yourself. We are not here trying to convince you. With all the info posted, how much more superior will this rack be? We have to wait for the MVO assessment to find out. We know enough not to blow any smoke just because "we want it".
>I'm asking because R&D costs for new items are generally absorbed by the vendor to make a profit later.
We are at their mercy. There is no future profit to be made for this car from their perspective. We are lucky they are talking to us. No world class vendor cares for a qty of 100 or 200. This contact was hard to come by thru persistence and over time. If we were a chassis maker like Dallara for a top class racing series, then it makes more sense for them to do what you said but this is not the case here.
>whats in it for us?
we want all the NSX owner to feel what a low ratio, variable steering rack feels like on a great car. Its not sexy HP/dyno/boost/SC/turbo talk so we know it may never take off but thats beside the point. If we make any money, it goes back to develop the next product.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...r-steering-ratio?highlight=steering+rack+sale
Changing the wheel size does not affect the ratio.
***
I'd be strongly supportive of this project if there were more of a clear path for those of us with EPS racks.
AFAWK, EPS can be replaced with a manual rack as the pickup/mounting points are the same. We must overcome the manual rack hurdle first. The path will be a lot clear once the assessment on the manual rack is done then we can make decisions based on the data. We've yet driven a EPS car so have little clue what that feels like compare to the manual rack but we know the EPS rack is quite heavy.
Yeah I guess it doesn't. Sure felt like it. It's changing how your arms work on the wheel. Certainly less travel there. So it becomes sharper. Nontheless, its not the same as what we are talking about here.
Count me in
Thx for getting this going
Jv
Thx for getting this going
Jv
Losing weight at the right places is always a good thing JMO.:smile:
Max, the short answer is yes, we are planning to support the EPS folks as its going to be a replacement of your existing EPS not an update EPS rack. Its cost prohibitive to make a new EPS rack.
Unfortunately this is not 100% up to us to decide, its up to Prime to decide. The capital expense for R&D is quite high for a SBE like us to bear but this is a fine piece of automotive engineering that can make '91-2005 driving a better experience. As for now, we have no data to quantify this yet but only based on the reputation and the experience Bishop steering has to believe its going to be a very nice upgrade to change the NSX steering to a more up-to-date technology. You certainly don't need to track your car to appreciate this.
We have to wait and see how many people is willing to do this otherwise, its just a mirage. Should we pencil you in? No money is needed until we get enough people and its really a low risk/high reward proposition.
- - - Updated - - -
We're curious who made the steering rack for the GT4
. Yes, a quick ratio rack will provide a better driving experience for sure for sure. Surprise us Bishop! Best of the Best 2016: Wheels | Sports Cars: Porsche Cayman GT4
Ronald Ahrens,Robb Report 21 hours ago
Give people their pick of the top sports cars, including ones costing well over $150,000, and a surprising number will choose the new Porsche Cayman GT4. It seems to be the most practical choice, and it still has the signature attributes of a Porsche sports car. The horizontally opposed 3.8-liter, 6-cylinder engine delivers an instantaneous response at any rpm, and the tachometer needle rises and falls like a conductor’s baton. The 6-speed manual gearbox matches up with chronometric perfection, and the super-quick, variable-rate power steering gives you a direct connection to the road or the track. These qualities are combined with a handsome, well-crafted interior.
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In.
Okay me too.
I'm in too.
I'm in!
