Group Buy Variable Manual Rack - Feel a little F1 tech in your hands

[liftnot]

Variable Ratio Manual Rack - Feel a little F1 tech in your hands

Through our persistent effort of networking our past contacts(took over a 1yr), we are working with MVO USA on building a variable manual rack and we need your help to bring this to fruition.

MVO USA (formerly Bishop Steering Technology) produces steering gears and components for some of the world’s most elite racing series. MVO USA is the spec steering gear supplier for DTM, Super GT, and the Renault Sport Trophy (RS01) series. MVO USA also is the supplier of steering gears and steering components to numerous F1, WRC, IndyCar, NASCAR, and endurance racing teams. The quality of our products is second to none.

with Variable Ratio racks, MVO USA is able to offer a rack gain that changes across the length of the rack. This has many benefits for manual and power assist steering gears; such as on-center stability, reduced driver input, reduced turns lock-to-lock, and improved steering feel. When using an existing housing, our design may be limited by some of the existing dimensional constraints. http://www.mvousa.com/us/steering-technologies/steering-rack-pinion.html

Steps involved:

1)The cost for the oem rack initial assessment is ~$2500 one time fee of engineering/measuring and a feasibility study in order to detail the advantages of using Bishop steering VR technology for our car. Whether we can use the existing housing or go with a new housing etc. is unknown at this time. This means the est. price quoted below is for the internal replacement NOT including a new housing. Most likely we will go for a total replacement as the logistic of sending us your oem rack and have new internal installed has way too many variables that we have no control of and it is a nightmare we want to stay away from.

2)IFF, the initial assessment is positive and , the design cost for our NSX specific rack is ~$2500 one time.

3) Depending on the new design, a new master rack maybe required to meet the DIN 6 quality standard so it must be made and that is ~$3000 one time.

4) the existing EPS can be replaced with this but will probably need a new housing so its pending on the result of step 1.

We don't know how many of you see the value of this upgrade to improve the overall driving experience of the existing rack that is designed in the '80s. If we can pull together to go thru the 1st step, we believe the money is well spent. The turing radius most likely will not be changed as its not part of the steering geometry.

Many top teams use Bishop steering but they usually don't talk about it. Besides, its not bling so you can't tell from the outside. Just the way we like it.
The more people we are able to sign up, the less cost will be for each one of us. After Step 1-3 (~$8000).

fyi, after completion of 1-3 & pending the assessment, each rack will be sold ~$2000/ea. at qty of 100 or cheaper with more qty. MVO USA is a world class operation with expensive equipment and top notch engineers specifically making steering rack. Its not a regular machine shop so if you are thinking discount, this upgrade may not be for you.

Thx Coz, who donated an excellent condition manual rack for the assessment. Its not easy to find a top notch manufacturer willing to work with us on small qty. so we feel privileged MVO is helping us to make our car even better at all speed.

This will be for LHD only for now as our RH is busy. ....typing...:wink:
Sign up & no money needed for now. MVO gave us the cost at qty of 100 so if we have 200+ interests, a new quote will follow.

This is the list for Step 1, the R list (as in research) a D(as in development) list as in Step 2 will follow pending the result of R.
1. liftnot(paid) 2. -m-(paid) 3. BBVNSX(paid) 4. mteele 5. greenberet(paid)
6. jagtiger(paid) 7.scammy(paid) 8.boostedtaco(paid) 9.jimminh(paid) 10. NSX-SA
11.whrdnsx 12. Gary W(paid) 13.91nsx85crx(paid) 14. SMYLDOC (PAID) 15. white98sh(paid)
16.Maxgeek(paid) 17.TURBO2GO(paid) 18.RYU(paid) 19. jwmelvin(paid) 20. v-tecpwr(paid)
21. Ghayes23 22. ediddynsx(paid) 23.Ponyboy(paid) 24. RedWings 25. Warrenw
26. A_J(paid), 27. bzyrice 28. Arc-light 29. latzke(paid) 30.mailman1 (paid)
31. nsxspdfreak(paid) 32. Sduff(paid) 33. jedi14323(paid) 34. mochanges(paid) 35. CL65 Captian
36. jsl757(paid) 37. gmeads (paid)38.jrnsx 39.prym8(paid) 40. Albert86(paid)
41. rizzo 42. 02#154 43.darock(PAID) 44.havoc_UK(paid) 45. BATMANs(paid)
46. hkz286 47. sparky(paid) 48. Nero Tenebre(paid) 49. YF-19(paid) 50. DRIFTER(paid)
51.victorhwei(paid) 52.ALWAYS4SALE (PAID) 53.Patricio(paid) 54. ryan1926(paid) 55. ApexGoblin(paid)
56. PainIs4ThaWeak(paid) 57. Jones83(PAID) 58.geometro(paid) 59.BDMalovany(paid) 60.MugenNA1
61. Xetronic(PAID) 62. BerzerkFury02(PAID) 63. Butters(PAID) 64. TrustJDM(PAID) 65. R13 66. R0Y(PAID)

 

[-m-]

Sure why not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RYU]

Does "variable" mean the rate increases the more you turn the wheel?

 

[liftnot]

The short ans. is: its more than that. You just need to sign up. We'll take care the rest. At a qty. of 100 people, $25/ea. to start is a great deal to have an SMExpert to tell us what it can do and can not do and what upgrades can be done with no bull. We'll see how it goes and IF its a go, people who are late adaptors will pay a much higher price if they want it later so its fair for the people who sign up early. If we don't reach the economy of scale, we can't make it happen so we need your help.

We expect this is something you can feel the improvement all the time but it may not be a direct result to a lower lap time as it is the combinations of well thought-out upgrades to allow you to extract more out of a car to feel more balanced and assured thus a better driving experience and feel safe to push the car.

The long ans. is below:
The Bishop Way of Steering to Success

Bishop Steering Technology Pty Ltd, Australia
Have you ever wondered what a fighter plane, a Formula 1 (F1) race car, and a passenger car have in common? There is a strong possibility that it is Dr. Arthur Bishop (1917–2006). In the late 1950s, Dr. Bishop adapted technology originally developed for power-steering systems for World War II aircraft for use in automobiles. To bring his innovations to the market, he founded AE Bishop Holdings Pty, Limited in 1957, which changed its name to Bishop Technology Group Limited in 1999 and in 2011 became a subsidiary of the German company GMH Stahlverarbeitung GmbH (GMHS) under the name Bishop Steering Technology Pty Ltd (Bishop).
<figure style="margin: 0px 0px 1.4em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(59, 59, 59); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22.4px; background: rgb(250, 250, 250);">

<figcaption style="margin-bottom: 0.35em; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1.18519rem; line-height: 1.4; color: rgb(110, 110, 110);">Dr. Bishop's innovations are used in F1 race cars as well as passenger automobiles (Photo: Flickr/Jake Archibald)</figcaption></figure>From its humble beginnings in the United States of America (USA) and subsequent move to Sydney, Australia, Bishop is now a world-leading engineering company that develops steering systems, steering racks, and related components for the automobile industry. Its technology is incorporated into F1 racecars, IndyCar Series (the premier level of open wheel car racing in the USA), and many of the world’s most famous sports cars. Backed by a strong intellectual property (IP) portfolio and over half a century of innovation, Bishop’s car steering technology allows automobiles to respond quickly to shifts in load as they are driven around a variety of surfaces, smoothening the steering effort and making the driving experience safer and more enjoyable.
Research and development

At the start of World War II, Dr. Bishop was engaged in redesigning sections of aircraft landing gear for the Bristol Aeroplane Company, where his efforts resulted in two innovations. First, a shimmy damping mechanism for the rear wheels of fighter planes that eliminated wheel vibration, making landings much smoother and more comfortable. Building on this success, Dr. Bishop subsequently invented a variable ratio nose wheel steering system. Following the end of the war, the entrepreneur patented his invention, licensed it to major aerospace companies in the USA and United Kingdom, and used the royalties for research and development (R&D) into applying his invention to automobiles.
Confident in the viability of his innovation, Dr. Bishop approached major automobile manufacturers in the USA and Europe, even setting up an R&D laboratory in Detroit, Michigan, the center of the automotive industry in the USA. Despite these efforts the inventor was unsuccessful and returned to Australia to further refine his invention. Additional R&D paid off, as after Dr. Bishop perfected his variable ratio rack-and-pinion power steering innovation domestic and international automobile manufactures soon employed it in a number of vehicles for the Australian market.
<figure style="margin: 0px 0px 1.4em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(59, 59, 59); font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; line-height: 22.4px; background: rgb(250, 250, 250);">

<figcaption style="margin-bottom: 0.35em; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1.18519rem; line-height: 1.4; color: rgb(110, 110, 110);">First developed for fighter planes during World War II, Dr. Bishop adapted his technology to automobiles (Photo: Flickr/Paul Townsend)</figcaption></figure>International success quickly followed, and as the small and medium-sized enterprise (SME) grew Dr. Bishop ensured that the small company continued its tradition of innovation through R&D, which allowed Bishop to transform into an industry leading company. In order to maintain its competitive advantage, Bishop has continued to make strategic investments in its physical, intellectual and human assets to ensure the development of new technologies.
In 1997, Bishop’s technology was significantly advanced as a consequence of an R&D START Grant received from the Australian Federal Government. The grant is designed to spur growth for SMEs. Bishop invested the grant into the company’s R&D equipment and the recruitment of additional expert staff, including patent attorneys.
The company subsequently developed a 28,000 square foot R&D facility with a full range of state-of-the-art machines, offering world-class equipment. The facility was equipped, for instance, with a wide range of computer numerical controlled machining centers. These centers are managed by a team of dedicated and highly trained engineers, making Bishop a center of excellence in precision research, development of precise components, and software design.
Bishop has relied on a policy of investing millions of Australian dollars (AUD) into R&D annually, which is made possible by the company’s robust IP portfolio. This investment is then employed in designing original components, conducting research, and testing prototypes geared to market viability. This approach has ensured the company develops products with superior performance and yet at a minimum production cost. For example, fifty years after the development of Bishop’s first variable ratio rack-and-pinion steering system, the company innovated a unique variant of the system – called ActivRak – that offers all of the benefits of the original invention as well as fast responses to steering inputs, which allows significant benefits to a vehicle’s dynamic behavior.
Patents and trade secrets

In a 1982 interview, when discussing IP Dr. Bishop said “The patent system plays an essential role for the innovator.” This view has been key to Bishop’s success throughout the company’s history. Early on, the entrepreneur discovered the importance of not only developing a new product, but also the associated manufacturing process and equipment. At each stage in the R&D process, Dr. Bishop and his team filed patent applications for their ideas. By developing and patenting these complementary innovations, Bishop has been able to maximize income from licenses, joint ventures (JVs), and partnerships. This income is then put back into R&D on new technologies and innovations.
<figure style="margin: 0px 0px 1.4em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent;">

<figcaption style="margin-bottom: 0.35em; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1.18519rem; line-height: 1.4; color: rgb(110, 110, 110);">Bishop's rack-and-pinion steering gear PCT registration
(PATENTSCOPE: WO2003024764)</figcaption></figure>
One of Dr. Bishops earliest granted patents was in 1958 for his perfected variable ratio rack-and-pinion power steering technology. Since then, Bishop has filed over 500 patent applications, with over 100 of them successfully registered. The company’s rack-and-pinion steering gear, one of its most successful inventions, is the subject of an international Patent Cooperation Treaty(PCT) application. The Bishop ATS Power Steering Valve and the Bishop VARIATRONIC, a speed-sensitive power steering solution, are further examples of the SME’s patent registrations and innovative success. Bishop has prodigiously used the PCT System to file patent applications internationally and to obtain patent protection for more than sixty technologies and processes in many different international markets.
In addition to patents, the company has a long history of strictly protecting its innovations as trade secrets, releasing them only after they are deemed ready to be the subject of a patent application. Full disclosure in the patent document is considered important for the enforcement of the SME’s patents, particularly internationally.
Licensing

Early on, Bishop followed a simple strategy to bring its developments to the market: create new IP and license it to interested parties. This suited the SME, as instead of spending resources and time on physically manufacturing products, the relatively small company was able to focus on ingenuity and developing a steady stream of innovations that could compete internationally. This proved to be a productive strategy, in that after Bishop secured its first licensee – a major Japanese automobile manufacture – many other global licensees soon followed.
Continuing to use this approach throughout much of the company’s history, Bishop strategically exploited its many licensees, taking full advantage of business partnerships and adapting contracts to suit the prevailing business environment. Bishop originally entered into exclusive licenses with various companies, a strategy which generated a high royalty return. However, as Bishop’s innovations became accepted in the industry and more widely available in the market, it renegotiated those licenses to make them non-exclusive, which allowed the SME to significantly broaden the user base of its technologies. For example, Bishop’s 2004 license agreement with Chongqing Changfeng Machinery Company Limited (Changfeng), one of the major steering gear suppliers in the People’s Republic of China (China), enabled the company to produce state-of-the-art hydraulic power steering valves for the Chinese and international markets.
Commercialization

As the company grew, Bishop made the decision to make a change in its business model. The SME wanted to become more involved in the industrialization and marketing of its IP, instead of simply licensing it to other companies. To that end, in 1997 Bishop entered into a JV with the steering division of Mercedes-Benz, a large automobile company based in Germany, to commercialize Bishop’s power steering technology.
The Mercedes-Benz JV allowed for the introduction of the SME’s ActivRak invention in 2008. In 2000, Daimler Chrysler AG took a 30% shareholding interest in Bishop, which ultimately led to the SME’s first implementation of ActivRak. These efforts exceeded the company’s expectations, and as a result Bishop continued to follow a new strategy of combining licensing with more direct commercialization efforts, including continuing to enter into strategic JVs. This method has allowed the SME to capture more value in its IP, reach more markets, and develop a deeper understanding of the entire innovation process, from the first blueprints to the final product.
<figure style="margin: 0px 0px 1.4em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent;">

<figcaption style="margin-bottom: 0.35em; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1.18519rem; line-height: 1.4; color: rgb(110, 110, 110);">The SME uses the latest technology in the development of its
products and services (Photo: Bishop)</figcaption></figure>
Due to this strategy and a culture of creativity and innovation, Bishop has been able to commercialize its technology in a range of motor vehicle applications throughout the world, from F1 racecars to everyday automobiles. The SME’s core commercialization efforts include the development, licensing, and manufacture of steering systems, racks, and components. In addition, Bishop develops prototypes, production equipment, and support services for specialized steering components and assemblies.
By 2014 Bishop had over 50 years of experience in developing, protecting, and marketing IP, and the company has used this experience to diversify the products and services it offers. For example, the SME assists its clients in developing their own IP and using it to maximize a client’s position and business strategy. This diversification has led Bishop to become an innovation, product, and service provider of automotive steering technology. From concept development and design to marketing and IP protection, Bishop’s extensive experience, R&D, and range of in-house experts (such as engineers and patent attorneys) have ensured that the company’s products and services achieve success.
Partnerships

Key to Bishop’s business strategy throughout its history has been the strategic use of partnerships. One important type has been JVs, through which the SME has been able to develop new IP while ensuring it remains commercially viable. Furthermore, JVs have given the company access to manufacturing (by leveraging their partners’ resources) and a way to break into new markets.
A few years after the successful Mercedes-Benz partnership, the company announced that it would undertake at least three more JVs over the ensuing years at a value of more than AUD$100 million. These investments allowed Bishop to speed up existing projects while taking on new ones, increasing its ability to create further technologies whilst continuing to operate as an independent supplier in the global market.
Bishop also teamed up with the developers of Adams, the world’s most widely used multibody dynamics computer software that simulates real world physics and aids engineers in the study of the dynamics of moving parts for the design and analysis of mechanical systems. The partnership resulted in a new set of software tools that became widely used in the car industry for virtual reality developments of new vehicles.
Perhaps the most important partnership the SME entered into was the acquisition of Bishop by GMHS in 2011. A subsidiary company of the Steel Processing Unit of Georgsmarienhütte Holding GmbH (the GMH Group), GMHS is a leading global developer of specialized materials for steering racks. Bishop joining the GMH Group allows the SME to collaborate closely with GMHS and its related companies and partners, providing it with significant assets in the design and development of new steering innovations. Now operating as a subsidiary company and still retaining the Bishop name and culture, the company has been able to increase its technical and manufacturing capabilities through the acquisition.
Business results

Bishop’s cutting edge technology, substantial R&D investments, rigorous patenting and IP management, prudent partnerships, and strategic commercialization initiatives have led to stunning business success for the company. By 2000, the company’s revenue reached over AUD$44 million annually, up by over 27% on the previous year.
<figure style="margin: 0px 0px 1.4em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent;">

<figcaption style="margin-bottom: 0.35em; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1.18519rem; line-height: 1.4; color: rgb(110, 110, 110);">The SME's products, such as its racks (top)
and valves (bottom), have been met
with success (Photos: Bishop)</figcaption></figure>
The company and its partners generate further revenue via effective management of the SME’s IP, which includes over 100 granted patents worldwide that return millions of AUD$ annually in royalties. For example, the license with Changfeng was worth over AUD$5 million and allowed Bishop to enter new and fast-growing markets. Other licensees include some of the largest automotive and aerospace manufacturers in the world, such as Ford Motor Company, Mercedes-Benz, and TRW Australia.
Maintaining a diversified revenue stream has enabled the company to develop new innovations, reach new markets, and eventually attract a major partner (GMHS) that helps to ensure the company’s future success. By 2014, more than 23% of all vehicles produced globally each year contained components that were built using Bishop’s technology, and the company has a presence in major automotive markets in Europe, North America, Asia, and Oceania.
In addition to financial success, Bishop’s achievements have been internationally recognized on numerous occasions. In 2008, the company won the BorgWarner Louis Schwitzer Award for its ActivRak innovation as applied to racecars for the IndyCar series. The following year, the SME received an Engineering Excellence Award from the Sydney division of Engineers Australia.
Steering into the future of automobiles

Taking inspiration from the steering of old fighter planes and adapting them to new uses in sports cars and passenger car steering, Arthur Bishop changed the course of motoring history, turning it into a path of his own making. Bishop’s road to success has been paved with patents, expert personnel, strategic partnerships, IP assets, and acquisition by a leading global company, which has brought new opportunities for a future of continued innovation.

 

[BBVNSX]

I like your effort to offer new products and think out of the box! :applouse: So I'll be in to help with the development!

I have EPS... and probably will not go for a manual rack... but like i said... I like the way you are doing things! so count me in! :wink:

 

[solidol]

Idk steering feel of the manual rack in NSX is one of the best features of this whole car. But given oem part is discontinued it sounds great to have alternative for the future. Even though I have a spare rack but still. Would be curious to drive nsx fitted with on of these.

 

[liftnot]

Thats a smart move. Who knows, you may change your mind later. We are ok with the existing 1980 rack but wanted something not just a little better or a freshly rebuild rack but something that is way better.

This is all about making the driving experience more rewarding with the car and we are hoping it will not only eliminate the complaints of the existing slow ratio, on-center feel, etc. but also improve the overall feel of the car w/ faster, variable ratio, low speed gain, on-center stability, high speed gain, etc. They did tell us the JGTC NSX uses their rack but the steering geometry/suspension h/w is vastly different than ours as the aero ride height requirements for the under-tray render our ride height inefficient for generating down force.

There is no one better than these guys when it comes to steering rack. We have an iconic car and this is a worthy upgrade even Senna himself would approve.

Roman, we don't dislike the oem rack but it is a 1980 design. a spare rack or a rebuild rack would be a mod at best, not that there is anything wrong with that. Lets see what Bishop's assessment entails 1st as they don't blow smoke. We hope the $2500 assessment is not a waste but this is the only way to find out. There are many rack manufactures around but these guys are de Best and we feel privileged they are willing to work with a 30 yr old car as they understand what this car is about, balance and handling. We don't think they'd bother our calls if it was some other old sports car.

 

[mteele]

What's the timline for all this happening? How soon could we possibly see racks being produced?

 

[liftnot]

From MVO quote:
Step 1) Feasibility study ~2-4 wks.
Step 2) Design & Engineering ~2-4 wks.
Step 3) Making the rack 8-12 wks.

Keep in mind, the NSX rack is "not on their hot list of things to do being such a low number car" and its safe to assume other active racing series(teams have money to pay to overnite parts) take precedence over our NSX so we are just glad they are willing to help. This is also an aftermarket/racing part and we are not clear if there is any warranty at this time or if any at all. If you are not comfortable with this, its better not to buy. You will need to sign a waiver agreement from P2F racing before your purchase this part so we can stay in business to make other upgrades.

This schedule is just a standard guideline and we need them more than they need us because P2F wants to do it right the 1st time or don't do it at all. If we have 100 people commit and the 1st assessment is not good enough to pursuit further, you have wasted $25. We will not search for a 2nd vendor to waste our time.

By the same token, MVO will deliver especially we(NSXPrime) show good faith in them and not dicking around wasting time. We would like to see over 100 people who want to go thru this assessment process. Since tracking this many of people is a big headache, if we reach a reasonable qty for Step 1 AND the assessment is worth while to pursuit, THAT would be the number for the 1st batch of Bishop steering rack to make it fair for the early adopters. Late adopters will pay a higher price as Step 1 -3 have completed.

Think about it and take your time, we want committed people not just going thru this exercise changing their mind. When we start taking the deposits, there is no return.
So far, MVO has been prompt, accommodating of our questions and concerns, lets not drop the ball and see what happens after they take our money The risk is low IMO.

 

[mteele]

Ok, I'm in for $25

 

[liftnot]

To answer a few PM questions:

1) Why is so expensive?
the pricing of $2000/ea. from MVO is not fixed. the price will come down a lot more depending on the Qty. & the assessment/ engineering. Its an inverse relationship. The more people sign up, the less the cost per rack. This is not a fix ratio rack like the oem. Its going to be a variable ratio and a quicker steering. We are using today's technology to solve yesterday's problem. The oem rack is also very expensive but its not avail. anymore so a replacement rack, IMO, should be better in every way if possible. Making a world class/top racing level steering rack takes a lot of expertise and equipment, and this is a critical component on the car and we won't settle for 2nd best. Its not something you can go to your local NAPA/O'reily/Summit to order a replacement Made in China for 1/10th the cost.

2) Is it a completely new rack or just the internals are new?
this pricing is "assuming" we can use the existing housing, IFF that can be done, P2F/Applied will offer as a service. If that can not be done, for whatever reasons, a complete new rack will be more expensive but IF we have the qty., it will help the pricing. If thats the case, it will be a complete bolt-on with an alignment needed afterwards.

We won't know 100% until we go thru the assessment process. The key for end users is to hope many people will sign up so the final pricing will be affordable. This pricing structure is the same for any racing team at all levels.

3) How much better would it be compare to the oem manual rack?
The short ans. is we don't know yet. We will post the results of the assessment from MVO so everyone will have a better understanding of what we have and how much better can we expect. From all the conversations we had with them, there are many "unfamiliar/uncommon" technical terms/concerns that are exclusive to the design of the steering rack and that type of info would be overwhelming so the results will be more comprehensive.

4) My steering feels fine, why should I change?
Ok. We don't know of any manual steering "wearing out" over time but it is made based on older technology. We do know the EPS wears out quicker due to the electronics age over time. We are not remaking the existing rack. We are making it better and more efficient so the driving experience is more enjoyable.
The Bishop variable ratio technology has won the Louis Schwitzer award in 2008 for innovation and engineering excellence in race car design and its a proven technology on many high end racing series since.
If you enjoy C&C/car shows, 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, 1-mile top speed racing more, you won't be happy, this upgrade is not for you.

See attached pdf.
The following link will give you some idea in the past what folks think of the oem rack.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...r-steering-ratio?highlight=steering+rack+sale

5) How do I know my money is safe with you or if the money is spend on something else instead?
We are slow but we do deliver. Many vendors came and gone 'scamming' people's money is nothing new on Prime. If you don't trust us, its better not give us any money. We don't spend our time scamming people, we spend out time making upgrades for the NSX.

Guys, this is a low risk proposition w/ high reward especially if you enjoy turning the steering wheel often and keeping the car for a long time. We now have a world class specialty vendor willing to help us so we need your help to make the number work for everyone.

 

[-m-]

Is this limited to the earlier cars with manual racks?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[greenberet]

1. liftnot 2. -m- 3. bbvnsx 4. mteele 5. greenberet


Sign me up as well. Decreasing the number of turns lock to lock without making the car nervous when driving straight sounds good.

I read about variable ratio steering racks in the September 2008 issue of Racecar Engineering in an article titled "Progressive development". Considering my NSX's relatively slow steering, I liked the article so much I kept it. To quote:


[Dr Arthur Bishop's] original intention was to address the perceived problem … referred to as the sneeze factor. In other words, how to have steering that was fast and manoeuvrable in turns yet so stable in the straight-ahead position that the driver could sneeze at the wheel without going off line.

… The company introduced its VR steering to Formula 1 three years ago [in 2005] and currently supplies several F1 teams. It believes there are [several] reasons why teams are looking to VR steering technology.

… fast steering at small angles of lock can be hazardous for yaw response, making the car nervous at high speeds. Conversely, in tight, slow bends where steering inputs are large yet downforce is low a driver needs a ... steering with a fast response. Not only does it reduce the amount of wheel angle needed to negotiate a chicane but it also speeds up the driver's response to extreme yaw situations, improving the chances of catching a spin.

… it can reduce the number of turns from lock to lock. This is appreciated by the mechanics trying to guide the car into the pit garage and can also help with some design issues.

… this means the ideal ratio profile for a motorsport steering … has low steering gain in the straight ahead position, ramping up quickly to its maximum over the first 90 degrees of steer angle and [maintaining this high] gain for the remainder of the travel.


It sounds like it could be a really good modification to our NSXs. Thanks for looking into this!

 

[liftnot]

Is this limited to the earlier cars with manual racks?

Yes. but IF we have enough qty, Bishop is willing to make a NEW rack so it will be a complete bolt on to ALL cars from 1992-2005 as well.
1) its rare we get to work with a F1/top racing manufacture DIRECT. Quite often they won't even answer the phone.
2) the initial cost is so little and no risk, but we need enough numbers from everybody to make it work.
3) We hope there are enough folks who understand what this is about and the cost will surely come down.
4) Don't wait until your rack is no longer racking. AFAIK, there is no replacement part avail.
5) So far MVO is a pleasure to work with(kinda like Motec). They are prompt, supportive, very professional. They only quoted us at 100 qty. of $2000 and we would love to call them to for a quote of 200/300/400. or whatever the sign up number will be. They are racing folks who don't dick around so we need to show them we are serious as well as they really don't need our business if you know what I mean.
6) Do it right the 1st time Prime. Lets pull this together. RHD folks would have to wait until the LHD unit is done,(might be piece of cake as its a mirror image) complete and everybody is happy.
7) To all the hardcore JDM folks out there, JGTC NSX use them too...MVO won't tell us which team.
*) There, they should cover everybody.

>It sounds like it could be a really good modification to our NSXs. Thanks for looking into this!
minor correction. Its not a mod.
...it will be a really good upgrade to our NSXs.
Thx for signing up.

Its not just a rack, its a race proven, time tested piece of race car engineering, and once you have the best, you don't worry about the rest:wink:
do not put price and value in the same category or do a bang for the buck calculation or ask how much faster can I go with this or asking a lower GB price. If you do, this is not for you. You need more hp.

 

[jagtiger]

Sign me up Tim! Glad to see you new performance products for the nsx. Thanks for doing this

 

[liftnot]

Thx Henry for helping us to help you.

Ever since I read the 2008 article on RE, I dream on day my NSX will be fitting with one of these fine piece of engineering. It took over a year just to find them and many many knocks later for them to answer the door and many knocks later, to provide a quote!! I was in heaven that day. Yes!! they are willing to help us. finally!
That was the hard part and now the easy part is we need everybody's help to make it come true. Lets shoot for 200 to bring the final cost down.

 

[scammy]

I'm RHD but I will still throw $25 your way, and wait in hope that you can make one for us at some stage

 

[liftnot]

Thank you Cam for seeing the value of this new rack.
that IS the plan for all the RHD folks(we are all in this NSX family but 1st we must get enough LHD/RHD folks to sign up so we have economy of scale for us have a reason to call MVO again for a revised quote on a larger volume. The unit price WILL come down as number of people willing to commit goes up. If we get 200 people, your $25 USD will cover the design cost as well. BTW, we are dealing direct with MVO. There is no middlemen involved.

We hope people realize we are not offering a replacement part that is just a little better than oem but a piece of fine engineering that happens to be a steering rack that uses present day technology which the oem/mother Honda won't even come close. The high fixed ratio oem rack is just ok but this new rack will be lower ratio for quicker response and variable ratio as well. Besides, if your oem rack slowing stop racking over time....whats the option then? We installed the rack bushing mod before our rack start making noise which means the oem design does have this flaw which will show up over time.

 

[Boostedtaco]

Count me in!

 

[liftnot]

More PM answers and marketing stuff

If you are on the fence about this, here is some marketing propaganda and some nitty gritty geeky stuff. The Power Point is what they use for the top racing teams. This steering rack does not give your more HP or make you win but this is what winning looks like:wink:....so come on over, the grass is greener on this side.

PM answers:

1) Would this increase or decrease the value of my car?
This is hard to say. If you, or the future buyer understand what this is about, it will increase the value of your car because him/her will appreciate the faster ratio and the VR and know its done by a proper firm. This is not an "easy mod" you can DIY as its properly designed and engineered specifically for our NSX. JGTC NSX racing team use this technology but their suspension geometry is totally different than our car so its not a direct transfer.

2) Did Honda made the oem rack?
IIRC, we remember seeing a NSK stamp on the oem housing. NSK is known for high quality bearings. Perhaps they have a division that makes steerings and Honda used them. MVO/Bishop, on the other hand, steering is their specialty and many top racing team from formula 1 down, use them but don't announce to the world.

3) Would you offer this service for other cars?
Not likely. Not many sports cars have a sensitive chassis that is made not in steel. Even this chassis is 30 yrs old, its still an excellent platform as long as its not bend. The other sports cars that is worthy of this type of upgrades are Elise/Exige, R8, 360, or alum Porsche chassis but we don't know if they have any steering concerns at all unlike ours.

 

[jimminh]

If you are on the fence about this, here is some marketing propaganda and some nitty gritty geeky stuff. The Power Point is what they use for the top racing teams. This steering rack does not give your more HP or make you win but this is what winning looks like:wink:....so come on over, the grass is greener on this side.

PM answers:

1) Would this increase or decrease the value of my car?
This is hard to say. If you, or the future buyer understand what this is about, it will increase the value of your car because him/her will appreciate the faster ratio and the VR and know its done by a proper firm. This is not an "easy mod" you can DIY as its properly designed and engineered specifically for our NSX. JGTC NSX racing team use this technology but their suspension geometry is totally different than our car so its not a direct transfer.

2) Did Honda made the oem rack?
IIRC, we remember seeing a NSK stamp on the oem housing. NSK is known for high quality bearings. Perhaps they have a division that makes steerings and Honda used them. MVO/Bishop, on the other hand, steering is their specialty and many top racing team from formula 1 down, use them but don't announce to the world.

3) Would you offer this service for other cars?
Not likely. Not many sports cars have a sensitive chassis that is made not in steel. Even this chassis is 30 yrs old, its still an excellent platform as long as its not bend. The other sports cars that is worthy of this type of upgrades are Elise/Exige, R8, 360, or alum Porsche chassis but we don't know if they have any steering concerns at all unlike ours.

Count me in too.

 

[NSX-SA]

Great work Tim you can definitely count me in as well.

I developed the NSX Knock Bush and totally agree we need to bring the interface between car and us to current standards and while you are at it bring a performance feel to the steering system

As with Cam from NZ, over the ditch are us Aussies who are also RHD this might be a winner in the JDM if it gets legs.

 

[liftnot]

Big Thank you Erick for making the knock bushing. We did not have any knocking problem but it was a preventive measure incase the 30 yr. old rack started to wear prematurely. Then we are really screwed.

To provide a RHD solution is the plan as well provided we must 1st have enough LHD folks willing to pull this together especially from a pricing POV. If we don't reach at least a 100, all this is just a pipe dream to experience a world class steering.

With all the info we've posted above, how can any NSX owner not take advantage of this upgrade?

More PM answers:
1) What is the warranty? How do I know this new rack will work? Any testing planned?
The discussion with MVO has not reach that point. Being a racing/aftermarket part, whatever MVO policy is for this kinda stuff, we will follow. We do know there is no return if "somehow" you don't like it.

MVO has high tech, expensive equipment, ie, CMM and other propriety measuring devices to do it right. There is no question in our mind that the final product will be above and beyond our "normal" aftermarket in quality and in engineering. The rack we provide them is a complete oem manual unit.

Not at this time, we are depending on their expertise and their history of success in top class racing. The question is, IF they provide testing with data, are you able to afford the extra cost? If you don't feel comfortable buying this, as its a critical component, we understand. Its better stay with mother Honda.

 

[whrdnsx]

I'm interested in a RHD version

 

[liftnot]

PM answers:
1) Would it make any improvement for the guys who don't track?
Yes. This upgrade is not just for the track folks. The lower ratio will provide a quicker response from your steering input and the variable ratio will make the car easier to drive and turn.
There is probably more but we should wait for the MVO assessment as they are the expert in this matter.

2)I am interested but the unit cost is too high, what is the pricing like at say at 200?
This upgrade was not price motived but technology based. We are hoping for less than $1000 for the upgrade using the existing housing but we don't have the final say what critical number we need to reach.