Re: LOSS of Performance with Aftermarket Headers?
What I fail to understand is why is this Vance's or evenn my buisness. Its a buyer beware world people...not everything will work as promised and somethings are made better or worse that others...
I agree there seems to be an underlying negitivity some some of the SoCal people torwards chris.... the funny/strange this is that its @ chris and not SoS which leads me to believe its a personality thing...Led by Vance, which was kinda confirmed by him bringing up something about Seattle. not sure what happened between them, but WHO CARES...if ya dont like the vendor or the product by something else...
Seems like there is always some SoCal people...on ALL forums bashing anyone thats not in or from SoCal...doesnt matter the forum,
just my .02 on something that doesnt relate to MOST of us..
You know, S. Cal is the best, we don't like any one outside of S. Cal.:biggrin: Actually, I believe you see more people participate on car forum from S. Cal because of population.
Regardless...
I appreciate each individual’s $.02 and judging by the posts, I see most of you can understand what this thread is really about – A puzzled person who spend the money but did not achieve desored result. He wanted to find out if this was an isolated incident.
Since the question was asked in a public setting, it is up to people who have first hand knowledge/experience to help answer the question. In fact, every time I hold a NSX meet at my shop, or attend a local meet, the subject of Cantrell header is often part of the casual conversation. Andrew’s situation sounded all so familiar.
My old friend/client Jeremy was at my shop this afternoon; he is currently an Audi tech and Toyota certified tech. We smoking a cigar together and discuss the usual stuff – Girls, politics, cars, etc. I decided to show him the thread and ask for his opinion, even though he doesn’t service Honda, but I valued his opinion because of his experience.
1. Under this particular condition - ECU was untouched, with bolt on mods only. - If the driving style did not change, the perimeter set by Honda (or any manufactures) will cause the Check Engine Light to be turn on if there are any variables in fuel mixture or bad hardware. Therefore, the possibility of O2 sensor problem to cause the lost of fuel economy (by as much as 20%) is probable, but "extremely" unlikely. Simple indication - Andrew did not mention any thing about CEL. The responsibility of lost of HP and MPG is more likely due to the product, in this case, the header.
2. The theory of Dyno result differences between days (within a week but similar climate) is again probable, but "some what" unlikely. If the dyno shop has a good reputation and is done by the same person, same dyno system, there shouldn't be that much difference.
3. When viewing the pictures from post 29, my friend thought one company manufactured the two headers shown in these pictures. He was shocked by the assembly/welding quality between the two because the differences were too great for one manufacture to have that kind of variance. I explained to him that the headers may look extremely similar, the headers were made by two separate firms; he laughed and didn’t say much after that. The conversation carried on but the subject is very just repeat of the previous bullets.
My posts were not about attacking certain vender but rather trying to help Andrew so he is aware of the previous 3 or 4 incidents – As stated within the opening post. As usual, every venders will have both happy and ticked off customers. The impression I received from local NSXers in the past are straight forward; few will conduct business with SOS. In the case involved Jason who has witnesses the situation and was an involved parties. He summed up the best,
“I am 1 of the 3. My story is that it just didn't even fit. Will couldn't figure out either. I wasn't upset or dissastisfied one bit. I believe it was a prototype or first production run. I wanted a $1k header and I got that, you get what you paid for. I see it as blessing, so I went with Comptech headers instead while everything is still off the car.”
And
"The pics between Taitec and Cantrell headers really speaks for themselves. Why Taitec headers? There are other superior header designs if you are going to replicate. I don't see anything wrong with replicating parts as long as you don't pass it on or claim as original. Downforce, Route KS, Taitec, Procar, Dali, I's Impact, etc all replicate, but they don't pass these on as originals."
This is not about taking sides, but understand how certain vender conduct business. The truth. I have no doubt SOS have some very happy clients and will continued to support their cause. It is just the way life works.
As I have indicated, and I’m not the only one feel this way, the claim of performance gain on the SOS website has been misleading. The issue was backed by three dyno’d results, and one misfitment. Facts have shown, Chris and Cantrell are fully aware of previous incidents, if he stood out and admits to the problems, offer remedy and correct the information on his website, all this would have been over by post 23 of this thread. Trust me, I can think of few things to do than sitting here typing.
The nice thing is, we do have good/knowledge people on Prime who understand what this thread is about. They have spoken and the posts were very educational. Sorry, this does not appy to the popcorn eaters.
You guys are always welcome to offer your $.02.
:smile:
