Gerard van Santen said:
Heat will remove the weakmaker from pvc, it doesn't have to be weak
Last edited:
Vacuum leak CTSC
- Thread starter Gerard van Santen
- Start date
Heat will remove the weakmaker from pvc, it doesn't have to be weak
DutchBlackNsx said:Thanks, that wil comfort me :frown:Gerard van Santen said:Hi Mich, the PVC tube I used only gets weak when the temps rises higher than 90 degrees Celsius. So if Mark is right it will not weaken and won't brittle.
/QUOTE]
Heat will remove the weakmaker from pvc, it doesn't have to be weak
Damn.... i knew that school would be usefull one day!
I have this experience several times a week, I do not own a NSX. I am in the wrong work or did the wrong school.... :frown:
I have this experience several times a week, I do not own a NSX. I am in the wrong work or did the wrong school.... :frown:
Heat will remove the weakmaker from pvc, it doesn't have to be weak [/QUOTE]
Heat will free-up the "weekmaker" and therefore makes the pipe flexible, after cooling down the "weekmaker"gets locked in the molecules again.(somehow, should have paid more attention with this lesson)
[/QUOTE]Heat will free-up the "weekmaker" and therefore makes the pipe flexible, after cooling down the "weekmaker"gets locked in the molecules again.(somehow, should have paid more attention with this lesson)
Cees-Jan said:
Thats the thermoplastic behaviour, not the aging process.
I certainly went to the wrong school.....
I just wanted to update this thread for the masses . . .
I just ordered the update for the bypass hose from Comptech, the hose is replaced by a hard metal tube and to silicone couplers to connect everything back together. The parts list called for the new pipe, two couplers, and four hose clamps. I just ordered the pipe and will cut the existing hose into two couplers and add the hose clamps. Make sure you tell them the type of blower you have, old/new or Whipple/Autorotor. As they are different, but if you have the Autorotor you already have the hard tube.
The tube is 29.99 from Comptech but the couplers were 24-25.00 ea. so I am taking the cheap route and reusing the existing hose as couplers. This should solve all the problems with leaking and collapsing hoses. After talking to Shad, this hose even before failing with a hole in it can become so weak that is will collapse onto itself and not let the bypass operate correctly, leading to higher intake temps, stress on the blower, and other idle issues.
I think all of these hoses should be replaced as soon as you can, this is the hose that can cause the run away idle problem and things that are allot worse. It will take about 1.5 hours to replace this thing but do it, do not put it off, order the thing today, the sky is falling. :wink:
Dave
I just ordered the update for the bypass hose from Comptech, the hose is replaced by a hard metal tube and to silicone couplers to connect everything back together. The parts list called for the new pipe, two couplers, and four hose clamps. I just ordered the pipe and will cut the existing hose into two couplers and add the hose clamps. Make sure you tell them the type of blower you have, old/new or Whipple/Autorotor. As they are different, but if you have the Autorotor you already have the hard tube.
The tube is 29.99 from Comptech but the couplers were 24-25.00 ea. so I am taking the cheap route and reusing the existing hose as couplers. This should solve all the problems with leaking and collapsing hoses. After talking to Shad, this hose even before failing with a hole in it can become so weak that is will collapse onto itself and not let the bypass operate correctly, leading to higher intake temps, stress on the blower, and other idle issues.
I think all of these hoses should be replaced as soon as you can, this is the hose that can cause the run away idle problem and things that are allot worse. It will take about 1.5 hours to replace this thing but do it, do not put it off, order the thing today, the sky is falling. :wink:
Dave
So that's ~$80 plus shipping and labor to correct a clear design flaw. Arrrrrrgh!!
Yellow Rose
Suspended
- Joined
- 22 November 2001
- Messages
- 2,256
sjs said:
Instead of "Arrrrrrgh!!" you should first ask if the unit was still under warranty. Perhaps in your "distorted" view it should be gratis regardless if the warranty has expired or not.
I have one for you.
Courtesy of the Whipple, because is was a mere two months out of warranty I had the pleasure of rebuilding my NSX engine because of their supercharger failure. What would rather carve out of your wallet - $80 or approximately 100x that amount?
What does a warranty have to do with a part/product that was designed wrong to begin with?Yellow Rose said:
Yellow Rose
Suspended
- Joined
- 22 November 2001
- Messages
- 2,256
KGP said:
Let's just leave that for the courts to decide. But to split hairs, is the hose failure the responsibility of the original manufacturer (Gates, Home Depot, Ace Hardware, Goodyear, etc.) or of the supercharger kit packager (Comptech)?
The hose manufacturer will claim that Comptech applied their hose to a service for which it was not designed, thus is was designed properly in the first place. Comptech will argue that if the hose was designed for x PSI and y °F rating, it should not have failed.
Then you have a customer that looks not to Comptech nor the hose manufacturer, rather to the Comptech-authorized shop to make good on this. Or, spend $80 and be back on the road without the agony of hoping to be reimbursed, which you and I have both had the unpleasure of, with respect to an engine rebuild. Yes, it may be a matter of principle (but not if out of warranty) with this hose, but my time is more valuable than to harangue over the cost of a round of golf. :tongue:
Alas, the woes of aftermarket forced induction. :redface:
Point Counterpoint
In reality, it was just that I knew a simple question would gain a novel of a reply from Andy. And since I hadn't heard from him in a while - I stirred the pot. :biggrin: j/k
Who was responsible for the Ford Explorer / Firestone tire thing? Beyind who, it wasn't a warranty issue anyway. Design, which is different from warranty. But, yes - there is always a gray line. :smile:Yellow Rose said:
In reality, it was just that I knew a simple question would gain a novel of a reply from Andy. And since I hadn't heard from him in a while - I stirred the pot. :biggrin: j/k
CT failed to test it adequately in their application, and since it is effectively hidden from easy inspection/replacement, testing was all the more important. Besides, I doubt the hose manufacturer designed it for a bypass as such, and it appears that vacuum, not pressure, is the precipitating factor. I looked at Dave's and it is almost identical to the pictures above. I suspect that the outer bend wall collapses inward under vacuum, eventually splitting. Were it used for boost (as intended) it would probably be fine. Rated for pressure is quite different than rated for vacuum. So CT can't really say it failed under “rated” conditions. In other words, the design flaw is theirs.
Yellow Rose said:
The purpose of my post was to advise the public of a known problem and the fix for the problem, no one, not even SJS stated warranty issues, perhaps you are still on edge from another thread, please do not SNAP to any conclusion. I think SJS was clear in his reply; he is just frustrated having to spend money to make something right, that was designed wrong.
For me I do believe that Comptech should be replacing the hose with the new pipe, and they should be very pro-active about it, instead of waiting for the owners to call. I have not seen anyone from Comptech post here about the update and I did not get a call, email or anything, I called them about two months ago looking for a new hose as a replacement for the one I had. I was told they had a fix coming and I wanted everyone to know about it. Given the cost to repair the failure of this hose and the possible cost of subsequent damages to the engine or blower I cannot stress enough, if you have a CTSC on you NSX replace the hose ASAP.
Yellow Rose said:
I just wonder if you asked them to reconsider or if you said OK, thank you Sir. I wonder if the blower failed due to the stress of a defective bypass hose.
I guess we may never know, unless blowers continue to fail and a link can be found.
Dave
Yellow Rose
Suspended
- Joined
- 22 November 2001
- Messages
- 2,256
DDozier said:
Though I knew it was a long shot, I wrote Don Erb - one of the founders of Comptech - a letter asking for possible "help" with the engine repairs. I never did get a direct reply from Mr. Erb. I did get a phone call (or e-mail, I do not remember) from Shad offering a "discounted" cost of an engine rebuild, of which I declined and went elsewhere.
While I am a pundit of warranty issues, I will admit that asking for help never hurts. However, if the answer is "no" then pony up the dollars and get on with life.
My two CTSC blower failures were not related to the bypass hose, though on a separate occasion, I too did have the bypass hose split.
Steve - you have a good point about the hose being subjected to a vacuum vs the designed pressure rating. My bad on this. :redface:
Gene - you are a despicable bastard for goading me into a novel reply. :biggrin:
sjs said:
Sorry got the part today and it looks like the folks at Comptech made a little pricing error on my first order. The actual Comptech part number is 352-02D and is a hose replacement kit for whipple charger, kit includes: (1) bypass tube, (2) 1.5" silicone hose couplers, (4) hose clamps. The price for the kit: $129.00. Get em while there hot!
Dave
Given the cost to repair the failure of this hose and the possible cost of subsequent damages to the engine or blower I cannot stress enough, if you have a CTSC on you NSX replace the hose ASAP.
Er.. just to be clear as I just stumbled on this thread. So everyone with a CTSC, regardless of model, should replace this hose? It seems like a small price to pay for the peace of mind, but shouldn't there have been more failures related to this over the years?
Arshad said:
Define Failure - as the hose gets weaker it begins to collapse onto itself, this hose is under vac not boost, if the hose collapses then the bypass is not allowing the blower to relieve pressure caused by an abrupt closure of the throttle. Whith no where for the air to go it is compressed and heats the air. Higher intake temps are a byproduct of the hose collapse, and additional stress on the blower seals. If the hose is so weak it leaks, then you have additional air entering the intake and causing idle issues. If the hose seperates completely, then you have a run away motor situation and that can mean big problems.
I would guess that anyone with say 5-10k miles on the hose could have the first problem, and the only result is higher intake temps, maybe some knocking on a hot day. Comptech made the replacement part and I do not think they will be selling the hose anymore, so I guess the "failure rate" may be higher than is being stated here on Prime. I know that in my case less than 1,000 miles ago I had the blower off my car and the hose looked fine, this week I dropped the motor out of the car for timing belt swap so I checked it again and there is a 4" slit on the inside of the hose and a 2" slit on the outside of the hose. I was having some idle issues but non that I could not address with the AEM, but I was constantly reworking my idle fuel map and idle control map to keep things in line, now I know the problem. If I did not have the AEM and was not able to log the idle correction value I may never have know the problem was there untill the hose seperated and the idle ran away. Since the hose is 1.5" in diameter i am guessing it would run away very high into the RPM range and very fast.
Dave
Last edited:
I can't help wondering how many of the failed valve guides (likely due to high combustion chamber temps) and other engine failures have been caused by excessive intake temps related to this problem. A non-inter/afterooled engine is on the edge already, and this could easily push it over the edge.
sjs said:
I am getting ready to put everything back together but this is something I do not like to see, has anyone seen this before. it looks like a blue/greenish grease, and looks to be coming form the both of the screws, I am sure it is bearing grease from the rear bearings. I am wondering if I should send the blower back for service or if this is normal. I will send pics to Shad for review, but have any of you guys seen this before. This blower has about 3000 miles on it.
Dave
Last edited:
sjs said:
Damned uncanny, However do you read minds like that?:wink:
Does anyone know if this hose has been redesigned in the newer kits? I'm awaiting arrival of my CTSC, if I can remedy this at time of install it'd save me some headache down the road.
WillErickson said:
Your answer can be found here:
http://www.comptechusa.com/store/media/instructions/NSX-SC-INST2005Autorotor_rev3.pdf
Dave
Similar threads
