URGENT!!! PLEASE HELP!!! Brake failure on track!

[nsxtasy]

Ken- What are the advantages/disadvantages (for track-day use) of say the Axxis vs. the OEM pads? I thought an "upgraded" pad would fade less.

That depends on the pad. Not all pads are better than stock. (For example, Axxis makes a Metal Master pad that is worse than stock in almost every respect except price.)

For that matter, I have never encountered fade with stock pads except for their first session or two on the track, when ALL pads can fade. Oh wait, I already mentioned that in a previous post.

Typically, there are a lot of different characteristics for which you can evaluate ANY pad. For example:

Dusting - stock pads tend to dust less than track pads

Noise - stock pads don't squeal; street-track pads (e.g. Cobalt GT Sport, Hawk HP Plus) rarely squeal; track pads (Cobalt Spec VR, Carbotech Panther Plus, Endless CC-X, Porterfield R4) squeal like a stuck pig

Heat range (cold end) - stock pads and street-track pads require no warmup; track pads need to be warmed up to be fully effective (drive with track pads on the street, and your first stop or two, you will wonder where your brakes are)

Heat range (hot end) - track pads can tolerate more heat, and still maintain their full effectiveness, than stock or street-track pads

Grip - track pads provide more grip than stock and street-track pads

I have not used the Axxis Ultimate pads. My understanding is that they are a street-track pad, so I would guess that the statements above about street-track pads apply to them as well. For more details about them, including a comparison with the stock pads and with GT Sport pads, talk to the nice folks at Cobalt, and they'll be happy to fill you in. (Cobalt sells the Axxis pads as well as their own branded pads.)

 

[DCNSX]

Cobalt recommended the Axxis Ultimate pads to me based on my usage requirements for very OCCASIONAL track-day use (3-5 times per year). If you track your car more often (or are willing to switch pads before track days) they would probably recommend something more aggressive.

I can't really comment on the Axxis pads having excessive dusting (from street use) as I haven't driven the NSX that much in the last month or so.

 

[NSXDreamer2]

axxis dusting

Three days of driving (about 100 miles) is sufficient enough to turn my wheel from bright silver to browned silver...(dull silver.)

 

[RSO 34]

I use an Axxis/Cobalt setup and I highly recommend them for the track but if you are anal about your wheels being virtually blackened by the dust, then don't use them. Even street driving results in a considerable amount of brake dust for me.

 

[jadkar]

Like Bob, I use the Axxis/Cobalt setup as well. Really great on the track, however the pad dust is much more then stock pads. I am very anal about my superleggeras, and I have to clean them after EVERY drive more then 10 miles. At the end of each day at WGI I was powerwashing the hell out of them right down the street from the track

 

[freelance201]

brake pedal being soft is usually the result of overheated brake fluid, but is still ok as long as the brake pads doesn't fade (you will still have sufficient braking power).

However, when brake pads fade and brake fluid overheated, it gets dangerous.

stock set up does tend to fade quite easily, but still depends on how you drive it.

I use Carbotech Panther Plus with Motul 600 fluid, bleed the whole system the day before the track event, and never had serious fading problem. Stock pads just doesn't cut it!!

 

[nsxtasy]

I drove on stock pads on the track for six years (5-7 events per year) before I started using aftermarket pads. That was for a total of 4000 actual track miles. Based on my experience, stock pads don't fade. I never, Never, NEVER had the stock pads fade, except when breaking them in the first session or two they were used on the track - same as any other pad.

I thought the stock pads were very good as street/track pads. Meaning, they perform extremely well on the track, they never fade (once broken in), never squeal, and dust only moderately.

Most of the people who claim that they fade are probably talking about how they behave before they are broken in. And ANY pad, stock or aftermarket, does that. The only possible explanation I can think of for a properly broken in stock pad fading is that maybe your parts department substituted Legend pads for NSX pads.

 

[classic cars]

Hi Tiger,

I used to race a lot in the nineties in a 911 Turbo, and you should have seen what sort of stunts I did then. I even managed a gigantic spin on the main straightline because I was...checking the stopwatch in my hand...now THAT was idiot!
I spun dozens of times until I learnt my way and still would occasionally take a little trip on the banks.

As for braking efficiency, what I learnt then was that the most important thing was to have air duct lines supplying cold air right to the core of the brakes. That made the difference between the amateurs and us...the semi-pro (well well make it a quarter-pro).
This is more important than the size of the disc and the type of the pad. Brake fluid is also crucial, but that one is easy done.
I have never taken my NSX to the track and I don't know how it can be done but in general terms if I want to know how serious a guy is about tracking first thing I check is whether he has those air ducts to the brakes.
Take care and enjoy yourself
...in the worst case, you can always go back to golf..

Mike

 

[nsxtasy]

if I want to know how serious a guy is about tracking first thing I check is whether he has those air ducts to the brakes.

Like mine? (The ones that were pictured in NSX Driver, the newsletter of the NSX Club of America, last year...)

 

[NoSeX4U]

Hey Tiger, I've just done the first 2 days of the Bridgestone Driving Academy driving Formula 2000's and I spun them. No one in my group had anything but good words and useful feedback, and one guy was right behind me. Don't expect perfection, just growth and fun, with an emphasis on fun. Sounds to me as if you were simply expanding your limits, which is the whole point. The Porsche looks like my spinner at Shannonville! Keep going out to the track!