Type R bar bangs w/sway bar

[jadkar]

Hrant,

Here is the page from the PDF I was looking at, as you can see the rectangular piece shown in the service manual IS NOT the spacer I have. My spacer is about 3 quarters of an inch and rounded at the ends.

I noticed that the bracket does not mount flush with the chassis but there is a rectangular piece

That is the chassis, even though it doesn't look like it in the illustration. Look back at my picture, you will see the round spacer, then above it the rectangular piece as shown in the manual.


Anyway, I will bring this up to SOS (I don't think it matters to them) and I will try the full firm setup like we both agreed. I will keep you posted

 

[jadkar]

Anyway, I will bring this up to SOS (I don't think it matters to them) and I will try the full firm setup like we both agreed. I will keep you posted

I have to take this statement back. I spoke with Seth at SOS and he was very concerned, and thanked me for doing the legwork in finding out some of the causes for the issue. Hopefully, they will have a different bar for the newer cars (if that really is the issue)

 

[jadkar]

I think I'm talking to myself on this thread but anyway, Larry Bastanza just brought up a great point. The radiator line is mounted lower in the car, hence the need for a spacer in the sway bar to clear the line. Larry thinks they needed to lower the line to clear the larger spare tire in the newer cars. I thought that was an excellent point, and he is probably right!!!!

 

[ChrisK]

I think I'm talking to myself on this thread but anyway, Larry Bastanza just brought up a great point. The radiator line is mounted lower in the car, hence the need for a spacer in the sway bar to clear the line. Larry thinks they needed to lower the line to clear the larger spare tire in the newer cars. I thought that was an excellent point, and he is probably right!!!!

One thing to note, if the spacer is on the 95+ cars and NOT the 91-94, than the lower line may not be because of the spare tire since the 94 cars already use the larger 16/17 rim combo and also has the larger spare tire. Maybe it is due to structual changes on the NSX-T vs Coupes since 95 was the first T version and not too many people have references on the later Coupes since they are so rare.

 

[jadkar]

That's exactly what I thought, and I told SOS that the new wheels came on the 94 cars. He said he knows that, but it wasn't until 97 that they enlarged the spare It didn't make sense, but I didn't argue. Maybe someone can verify if they made the spare bigger in 97. He had a 96 in the shop and he claims, it didn't have the sway bar spacer. Chris K - what year is yours & does it have the spacer???

Maybe it is due to structural changes on the NSX-T vs Coupes since 95 was the first T version and not too many people have references on the later Coupes since they are so rare.

Very interesting, last night I took off the retaining bolt to the coolant line to see how far I could move it upward. It only moved about a half inch before it struck the bottom of the front bulkhead (firewall on normal cars) Maybe with the introduction of the NSX-T they strengthened this part of the car and consequently had to lower the coolant line to allow clearance I didn't mention this earlier, because I didn't want to confuse anyone with more info. (is it possible at this point)

 

[jadkar]

I just took a look at the "changes by year" section here on Prime (I love this site )

Anyway interesting stuff, here are some excerpts:

Changes for 95:
Approx. 100 lbs heaver than 1991/1992 models due to reinforcements for targa top, including: The base of the B pillar where it joins the rocker panel, larger rear bulkhead crossbar, thicker trunk leading edge panel, a redesigned and thicker-walled rear roof section, a redesigned front roof rail section, additional rib in the center rear bulkhead section, a completely redesigned and thicker upper A-pillar. There's also a redesigned and thicker upper dashboard cross member and a redesigned front lower floor section. The extruded aluminum side sills were extensively reinforced - wall thickness of the vertical center web of the 5-sided extrusion went from 2mm to 6mm.

Changes for 97
Larger diameter spare tire to clear new brakes


This may explain why the 96 SOS had did not have the spacers. It doesn't explain why Dali sells a different bar for 95+ cars. Maybe just to play it safe he says 95+ you get different bars. We really need some more people to look under there cars, specifically someone with 97.

 

[PorknBeanz]

Here's what the Dali end links look like for the front end. The spacing between the eyes can be adjusted down to 3.0". This is on a year 2000.

 

[PorknBeanz]

Forgot to attach the photo...

 

[ChrisK]

That's exactly what I thought, and I told SOS that the new wheels came on the 94 cars. He said he knows that, but it wasn't until 97 that they enlarged the spare

Yes, they are correct as well as the others here. I forgot that it wasn't until 1997 that the car got the larger rotors and brakes and That is why they needed that larger spare.

However, by the FAQ post that jadkar posted it still seems that the difference is due to the structual changes in 95, thus why the Dali parts are desiganted for 91-94 and 95+. Otherwise those parts would be labeld for 91-96 and 97+. Anyway, I hope you figure it out.

 

[jadkar]

OK....here in the update (all this for 1 bar)

I'm now very certain Larry B. was correct, when they enlarged the brakes in 97 they needed a new spare, when they tried to fit it in the front they went, oh shit (or some other Japanese variation) and had to shift everything down.

Last night I tried moving the sway bar to the firmest position like I said, this didn't work. What happened is since I had to reverse the drop links (back to the normal spot), I ended up with the same distance to the bar. In other words full soft, and full firm leave the bar in the same spot (rotated that is, believe it or not). The neutral position is slightly better, but by no means acceptable

I tried everything humanly possible last night to fix the problem. I spent over 2 hours just staring at the setup. I came up with these solutions:

The absolute only way it will work.

1)Some how find a front bar with a higher center section to make up for the 1 inch drop of the 97+ up mounting location

2)Have custom made drop links, approximately 2 inches, instead of 3. This will rotate the bar up and out of the way enough. The Dali links only retract to 3 inches, which is where my stock ones are now, so that doesn't help. (ChrisK - thanks for the picture though)

3)Place a floor jack and a block of wood under the Aluminum coolant line and bend it upward about an inch, replace the small rubber elbow to the radiator with a longer one (now it will be about an inch too short) My spare will no longer fit, but it's useless now anyway. Now I can ditch the stupid spacers.

4)Cut the aluminum coolant line (ouch) back close to the bulkhead and place a long rubber hose from it to the radiator. Making sure the rubber line has a slight angle upwards to clear the sway bar. Now I can ditch the stupid spacers.

Unfortunately, IMO getting rid of the spacers (by moving or cutting the coolant line) is the best thing to do. Honda complicated the issue greatly with these spacers. Not only is the bar "physically" mounted 1 inch lower, but by doing this they made the drop links push the ends of the bar further up, which rotated the center of the bar even more toward the battery tray. They actually doubled the effect of the center section of the sway bar interfering with the tray, and destroyed the possibility of putting in a Type R brace. I'm sure the Type R NSX in Japan has the original hard coolant line in it (from the 90-96), because they have no spare tire in that car to worry about, hence no sway bar spacers needed on Type R.

What do you guys think????

Hrant - Now I am very curious about your car. You have a 98 correct? If so, did you say you have the Comptech bar and the Type R bar installed? I really would love to see a picture of it, If this is the case I don't know how you are not having the same issues as me. I know you said it rubs a little bit, but mine is way beyond rubbing. Do you have any pics?? I'm wondering if maybe the SOS and Comptech sway bar are different after all?? SOS said Comptech manufactured the bars for them, but they never said they were "identical". Here is one last strange thing, on the SOS site they say their sway bars are black, the ones I recieved are silver?? I hope I got the correct ones. Probably unrelated, but worth asking about.

BTW - Let me say ahead of time thank you very much to EVERYONE who is helping me out on this one. IMO this is definitely why owning an NSX is such a great experience.

 

[Hrant]

Nope, I don't have the NSX-R brace yet for the same reasons that you are going through. By just visual look, I was not convinced that it will not fit when I inquired about it and it seems my skepticism is validated at least with your scenario. But I know others with 97+ have done it on this forum so I am waiting to see their feedback/pics.

Comptech is now producing the sway bars in silver as well as black, and they too redesigned their sway bars a few years ago.

Having gone thus far, I strongly recommend you get two collars to put on both sides of the front and rear sway bar mounting brackets to avoid the sway bar sliding left and right. If you have a lowered car with shocks/springs you find that they may hit the shocks. The clearance on is about 0.5" to the shock ........ Al Terpak sells some nice industrial one.

 

[jadkar]

But I know others with 97+ have done it on this forum so I am waiting to see their feedback/pics.

I bet you we will find they have someone else’s sway bars.

Nope, I don't have the NSX-R brace

I'm glad because if you had it, and it didn't rub, I was going to really go crazy

I strongly recommend you get two collars to put on both sides of the front and rear sway bar mounting brackets to avoid the sway bar sliding left and right. If you have a lowered car with shocks/springs you find that they may hit the shocks. The clearance on is about 0.5" to the shock

Yeah, you mentioned this earlier. It is definitely on my to do list. Also, I have Zanardi springs and Koni adjustables in my car, which lowers it about .5 inches. That's probably why my sway bar hits the tray more then yours

 

[jadkar]

Well, for anyone who is still listening. I just called Acura Carland, I wanted to check some part numbers and put this to bed. I found that the 90-96 has the spacers, and that is because the 97 and newer car have a different coolant line. They checked for me and the part number is different for the 97+ NSXs. The reason IS because of the brakes. They needed the larger tire, and the coolant line interfered.

My plan is I'm buying a coolant pipe from a 90-96 NSX and installing that, then I will remove my stupid sway bar spacers, and I'm all set

I hope anyone who has this problem does a search, because we have basically covered every single point of the front sway bar & Type R bar installation.

Thanks to everyone who helped

 

[Daria]

Good detective work John.
After all that head banging and frustrating running around, let us know how the combination of the Type R chassis reinforcing bar + sway bars perform on the track? Do you notice the difference?

 

[NSXBenny]

Clarification please

I think I am lucky that I have read this thread before I proceed with my ordering of the type R bar and Sway bar (may be the SOS version). Just a few points to clarify:-

1. am I right to say that the sway bar will not bang on the battery tray (mine is a 91) whether you have sway bar set at the softest, normal or stiffest position as long as you dont have the type R bar?

2. is it correct that the only way (for a 91) that the sway bar will not bang on the Type R bar is to set the sway bar to its stiffest position?

3. when you guys say that "it has to notch" what is it that needs the notching? the battery tray?

Thanks, I still want to get both of them but guess I must be careful!.

Regards

Ben

 

[jadkar]

Ben,

Rather then go through your 3 questions I'll sum it up. Your car is a 91 so you will have NO problems. All my problems were because of the sway bar bracket spacers that Acura installed from 97+. Since you don't have them you will be fine.

No matter what sway bar setting you are on it shouldn't rub anything. Now, the only thing people noted is you maybe (I stress maybe) have to notch the very corners of your battery tray. But don't get hung up on that point, you probably won't have to. Take a look at the picture below, keep in mind this is my car with the "problem" spacers installed (my NSX is a 1998).

John

 

[docjohn]

Wow ,John nice atention to detail,this will be helpful for 97> owners.As an fwi I did cut off the corners of my bat tray to alleviate slight rub on my 96.I have CT sway on middle hole and type R brace.

 

[NSXBenny]

Thanks jadkar!

 

[Hrant]

I believe the battery tray changed with the 97+ models. If this model year conversion is indeed correct, then the earlier versions do not have the problem of notching since they don't have the plate in question under the sway bar, they have the two parrell bars that extend towrads the radiator base.

 

[JoeSchmoe]

Maybe youve already covered this, but is there a particular reason you are so "attached" to the CT sway bars?

If you are willing to go as far as replace the coolant pipe, why not just ditch the CT sway bars instead? theWB indicated that he was able to fit the dali bars on his 03, so maybe you need to approach the problem a different way?

 

[jadkar]

Maybe youve already covered this, but is there a particular reason you are so "attached" to the CT sway bars?

I didn't want to spend anymore money, plus I didn't want a Dali bar in the front and a Comptech in the back (I know it doesn't matter, it's just me). I was hoping I could a get a coolant line used. Anyway after having no luck with a used line, and finding out a new one was $182.00!!! I decided to try bending my own line, since I only have to move it about an inch.

Well, after all this searching for an answer, and trying to find out why 97+ cars don't fit right. I'm pleased to say I modified everything today, and it deosn't the bars don't bang or rub anymore.

I ended up placing a jack, and a piece of wood under the mounting bracket for the coolant line. I jacked away until I bent the actual hanger for the line. The thing is extremely strong, I actually lifted my car off the jack stand by it!! While I had the jack under it I had to slug it a few times which a rubber mallet to get it to move. I never had to replace the rubber elbow line leading to the radiator like I though I would, it had enough slack in it after all. Once the line was moved up an out of the way I was able to ditch the sway bar spacers. I had to buy new bolts, because the original ones were now too long. When all was said and done, I was correct, moving the bar up an inch actually gave me like 1.5 inches more room in the middle section of the sway bar!!!

Below are some pictures of the modifiaction:

Coolant line is now bent/moved and spacers are still in place

another shot, diferent angle

stupid spacer

So nice!! spacer now removed, look at the clearence between the type R bar and the sway bar

another shot, removed spacer

much more room, now I can place my fingers there

one last shot from the side

Never showed you guys this.....Front Type R bar, this was also a bitch to install. Can you see it?? behind my horns, running left to right

 

[ak]

Can anyone tell me where the lower chassis bar are supposed to attach to and whether it's supposed to go over or under the battery tray? It looks like it goes over....

Also has anyone had issue like Jadkar with Dali track/street bar?

Also for the upper bar, do I need to get a longer bolt for the attachment or are the existing bolt long enough?

My car is a 94.

 

[tc29]

Wow, I missed this thread. On my 91, with Zanardi swaybars, shocks and springs, I needed the swaybar mount spacers for the swaybar to fit. With the spacers, and the Zanardi swaybars, the Type R reinforcement bars fit without any problems with rubbing or any contact.

I can't remember exactly as I installed this quite a while back...but it only fits one way...no guessing involved.

BTW, I couldn't believe how much stiffer the car is with the Type R bars...you can tell just just by going up/down the driveway. I am not sure if it is good to have this on a NSX-T.

Terry
91 red/black

 

[jadkar]

AK- The chassis bar goes over the battery tray (take a look at all my pictures) Also, you shouldn't have the problems I did. All the problems I had were essentially because I have a 1998. 1997 on onwards will have the problem I did (they should), due to the issues I explained in the thread

-John

 

[ak]

ok thanks guys.