tracking brake pad, upgrade front end only or both?

[nsxtasy]

turn 1 kills the top speed, cause over 1/2 of the straight is going uphill.

Yes, but the front straight is also the longest straight on the track, and its length offsets the disadvantage of the elevation change.

The elevation change is worst at the start of the front straight, as you approach the pedestrian bridge. By the time you reach the start/finish line, it's pretty much leveled out, and you still have a lot of straight left before you get to the braking zone for turn 1.

Also - on any racetrack, there are turns that look faster/easier than they are, and there are turns that look slower than they are. The kink is in the former category. Turn 1 is in the latter category; once you realize how fast it is, you can do less braking for it, and start braking later - extending the front straight. Most people start braking well before they really need to.

 

[nsxtasy]

I don't keep track of my lap times and I don't watch my speedometer. However, I know where I'm approaching redline and running out of revs, and that happens at 140. So it's pretty easy to remember where I am, and am not, driving that fast.

The main reason why I don't keep track of lap times is because to me, what matters is having a good time driving the track, rather than getting into p**sing contests about top speeds and lap times. (And because many people who keep track of lap times have too many bulls**t stories that they use as ammunition in "bench racing", which is where they really want to "win".)

I guess we just have a difference of opinion, because I disagree with almost everything you have said (except for the part about instructors being exempt from the speed limit at the kink).

Then again, I've only driven Road America about 20 or so events (without any spins or wrecks), so I guess everything I said must be wrong and you must be right. I don't know anything about how to drive the track, my top speed is really only 80 mph, I stop and look both ways before proceeding through the kink, and everyone laps me at least twice a session.

 

[nsxtasy]

How can you judge if you yourself are improving or your advanced students are improving without monitoring lap times?

How come you obsess ONLY over lap times? Can you understand that many people are looking for consistency and proper lines, and can recognize that, without worrying about lap times? Can you understand that some people don't care about lap times because they are concentrating on being fast and safe and courteous - even when doing so is detrimental to running faster lap times? Can you understand that events where lap times are emphasized are often less safe than those where they are not? Can you understand that some people are looking for fun, not for bragging rights and p*ssing contests? Or, do you demand that everyone looks at the world the exact same way as you do? If so, then you have an extremely narrow-minded view as an instructor, and this will prevent you from having the flexibility to help students who may have a much wider variety of objectives than you yourself do.

 

[RP-Motorsports]

"bragging rights and p*ssing contests"

I am not the one who said I do 140 mph down the main straight. My whole point in my discussion was to contest your 140 claim, I never said that lap times were the "only" aspect of being a student or an instructor. I am just trying to call them as I see them, and 140 to me is the only BS in this thread.
I am sorry this thread came this far. I am done arguing this point now, and will let the thread get back on topic of brake pads.

 

[Tom Larkins]

You guys ever stay w fresh OEM brake fluid by chance when you run these pads? If so what was the result.

 

[nsxtasy]

You guys ever stay w fresh OEM brake fluid by chance when you run these pads? If so what was the result.

That's a good question and I will look forward to reading the responses.

Also, anyone know what the boiling points are for the Honda brake fluid? (I posted the boiling points for most other major brake fluids in this topic, along with an explanation of why they are an important descriptor of the quality of the fluid.)

 

[Tom Larkins]

Also, anyone know what the boiling points are for the Honda brake fluid?

Honda Dot 3 "heavy duty so my bottles say" is 284 degrees.

I asked the question b/c I flushed the system and may upgrade to one of the pads discussed in this thread if I head to the track this summer.

I could see it being a fading issue depending on the track of course and the time of a session(sp?).

Thanks in advance

 

[2slow2speed]

Honda Dot 3 "heavy duty so my bottles say" is 284 degrees.

I asked the question b/c I flushed the system and may upgrade to one of the pads discussed in this thread if I head to the track this summer.

I could see it being a fading issue depending on the track of course and the time of a session(sp?).

Thanks in advance

Based on the fact that the coefficient of friction is higher on the Carbotech P+ it's very likely that they will cause higher rotor and caliper temps when compared to OEM.

Your best bet is to go with Motul 600 or ATE Blue as far as brake fluid goes, there is nothing worse than having boiled fluid ruin your track day, it's a cheap insurance worth the time and the $$s.

Fading can be caused by operating temperatures that are outside the range of what the pad material can take, that's a bit different from the boiled brake fluid case.

Ken

 

[nsxtasy]

Honda Dot 3 "heavy duty so my bottles say" is 284 degrees.

That must be the wet boiling temperature - and that is only the minimum temperature to meet DOT 3 requirements. What is more relevant to track driving is the dry boiling temperature since you presumably use reasonably fresh brake fluid on the track.

You can read the full explanation in the link I posted in my previous topic.

Again, here are the boiling temperatures of many popular fluids:

DRY:401F -- WET:284F --- DOT3 MINIMUM
DRY:446F -- WET:311F --- DOT4 MINIMUM
DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5 MINIMUM
DRY:502F -- WET:343F --- VALVOLINE SYNPOWER
DRY:509F -- WET:365F --- MOTUL 5.1
DRY:527F -- WET:302F --- AP RACING 551
DRY:536F -- WET:392F --- ATE SUPERBLUE/TYP200
DRY:550F -- WET:284F --- FORD HEAVY DUTY
DRY:590F -- WET:410F --- AP RACING 600
DRY:590F -- WET:518F --- CASTROL SRF
DRY:593F -- WET:420F --- MOTUL RBF600
DRY:610F -- WET:421F --- NEO-SYNTHETIC SUPER DOT 610
DRY:620F -- WET:425F --- COBALT SUPER XRF