Toe in versus Toe out in the front suspension

[MrHugo]

I had an alignment from 2017 and shop is known in the nsx community. I told him I do mostly street driving and canyon driving. He said “ok, here try this out. Should be fun”. I actually love the alignment not knowing much about spec.

fast forward. I got another alignment recently (not same shop), and I just ask for oem spec. Notice the camber is very different because I raised my car since. He said more toe out front will be more responsive. So I went for a drive after to the canyon and notice the turn in and during turns, my car does not feel as stable or confidence inspiring. I cannot take some turns as fast since I am not used to it.

The main difference I can see between the two alignment is the toe. Is it the toe in that made me feel that way? I just want to confirm because oem ask for toe out. Thanks

 

[goldNSX]

Notice the camber is very different because I raised my car since.

If you raised the car the toe changes too. Rear toe-in will be reduced as is front toe-out. A little bit apples against oranges with you play with the cars height.

 

[CB72]

For years, I drove my car with the recommended toe-out in the front.
Every time, I drove the nsx, it felt strange coming out of my regular daily driver...
About a year ago, I had the non-compliance rear link installed by a rally racer and he asked what were my alignment specs?
When he saw that the front had toe-out, he just couldn't believe it!
After a long discussion, I agreed to try some toe-in...
Well this transformed the feeling of the car.
It now feels much safer not only in the straights but also the corners.
No issue whatsoever on track also!
Definitely worth trying.

 

[Honcho]

[MENTION=23169]MrHugo[/MENTION] keep in mind that the OEM alignment specs are specifically intended for the factory-spec tires. These tires have special geometry that, among other things, keeps the rear tires "scrubbing" inward (toe-in) and the front tires scrubbing outward (toe-out) while rolling in a straight line. The front toe out provides a very sharp turn-in response at the cost of some straight line stability. What you're feeling by going to neutral toe in front is more of that straight line stability.

 

[Honcho]

[MENTION=23169]MrHugo[/MENTION] keep in mind that the OEM alignment specs are specifically intended for the factory-spec tires. These tires have special geometry that, among other things, keeps the rear tires "scrubbing" inward (toe-in) and the front tires scrubbing outward (toe-out) while rolling in a straight line. The front toe out provides a very sharp turn-in response at the cost of some straight line stability. What you're feeling by going to neutral toe in front is more of that straight line stability.

 

[MrHugo]

@MrHugo keep in mind that the OEM alignment specs are specifically intended for the factory-spec tires. These tires have special geometry that, among other things, keeps the rear tires "scrubbing" inward (toe-in) and the front tires scrubbing outward (toe-out) while rolling in a straight line. The front toe out provides a very sharp turn-in response at the cost of some straight line stability. What you're feeling by going to neutral toe in front is more of that straight line stability.

Good point. Thanks!

For years, I drove my car with the recommended toe-out in the front.
Every time, I drove the nsx, it felt strange coming out of my regular daily driver...
About a year ago, I had the non-compliance rear link installed by a rally racer and he asked what were my alignment specs?
When he saw that the front had toe-out, he just couldn't believe it!
After a long discussion, I agreed to try some toe-in...
Well this transformed the feeling of the car.
It now feels much safer not only in the straights but also the corners.
No issue whatsoever on track also!
Definitely worth trying.

Thanks for confirming what I am feeling with the difference.

 

[stuntman]

[MENTION=23169]MrHugo[/MENTION] keep in mind that the OEM alignment specs are specifically intended for the factory-spec tires. These tires have special geometry that, among other things, keeps the rear tires "scrubbing" inward (toe-in) and the front tires scrubbing outward (toe-out) while rolling in a straight line. The front toe out provides a very sharp turn-in response at the cost of some straight line stability. What you're feeling by going to neutral toe in front is more of that straight line stability.

From Post #23 :

"Front Toe-IN
-sharper, more immediate response at turn-in
-slightly more understeer mid-corner."

 

[MrHugo]

From Post #23 :

"Front Toe-IN
-sharper, more immediate response at turn-in
-slightly more understeer mid-corner."

Thanks. I realigned my car few weeks ago and went for a drive. I am liking the front toe-in characteristic a lot better (at least for my driving). I just feel more confidents in the corners and at the initial turn in. For lack of better words, the front was more solid during the turn. Toe-out might be faster but I was slower due to not able to figure out what the car was doing.

 

[Mac Attack]

Front toe-in or toe-out: There's no one universal setting for everyone. Whatever setup makes you feel better and more confident is probably the one that will make you faster through a turn (to an extent).