Toe Heel Shifting?

[ChopsJazz]

Originally posted by sjs:
Please understand that I'm not taking shots at you, but when a forum like this is read by people of all knowledge and skill levels, issues related to safety must be debated vigorously by those who feel that the advice given is in error and potentially dangerous.

As well, the original question, "Can anyone explain toe/heel (sic) shifting?" implies spirited driving, and most likely a race track experience. I, personally, don't employ heel-and-toe downshifting during my routine drives around town.

Since a racing scenario was implied, it makes sense that one is not concerned with an icy road.

About the only time I use the engine to brake on a track is if I am entering a corner that requires very little brake input while at high rpm, like the off-camber left-hander after the exit of the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca.

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by ChopsJazz:
As well, the original question, "Can anyone explain toe/heel (sic) shifting?" implies spirited driving, and most likely a race track experience. I, personally, don't employ heel-and-toe downshifting during my routine drives around town.

Since a racing scenario was implied, it makes sense that one is not concerned with an icy road.

Actually, I don't think he was implying track events at all. In fact, he later stated that he does not track the car. Moreover, Zuerst answered "The main advantage of down shifting is not only for fast turns or hills but in slippery conditions such as heavy rain or iced road, down shifting in those conditions can significantly reduce loss of (traction)...". suggesting that his answer was also street oriented. That was the post to which I directed my comments because he specified slippery or icy roads.

So, I'm not clear on what you are saying, perhaps you were only addressing Zuerst, but they were both speaking of street driving in general.

Personally, I think that if you plan to use the technique on the track you had better practice it regularly on the street until proficient unless you live at the track. This does not imply reckless driving. On the contrary, it means more focus and attention to the task of driving. It also does not imply abuse of the car if done properly.

 

[ChopsJazz]

sjs, I am absolutely on your side with this. I was a little confused with Zuerst's comments about icy downhill conditions when Chuck's NSX's original post seemed to, in my mind, imply track driving, since that's where the technique is mostly used (or spirited country drives as I stated before).

And I absolutely agree that it is a skill best practised at low speeds on familiar roads.

Still friends?

 

[huckster]

i always thought a little engine braking was part of the art....

ive always enjoyed that inverse relationship between engine and gears, not at redline level, just that vvvvWWWWWHhhhinnnneee

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by ChopsJazz:
...Still friends?

Of course, Zuerst included I hope!

 

[Zuerst]

Originally posted by sjs:

Of course, Zuerst included I hope!

Of course, I didn't take any of the above comments as an offense to me, did my comments sounded like a defensive/offensive response to you??? If so, sorry, I have no intention of offending anyone or making any enemies...

 

[bonzo]

Once again, you guys have re-affirmed my faith that a topic can be discussed (debated) from multiple points of view while sharing good information for us "lurkers", without degenerating into drivel like most of the forums out there.
I, for one, do like to match revs with double-clutching on the downshift, but I rarely need to decelerate fast enough to require the heel-and-toe technique (I just like practicing the DC!).
Thanks again for the views!!

 

[ak]

I was watching the feb BestMotoring video and the guy doesn't seem to double clutch while heel-toeing. He just blips the engine then shift. hmmm?

 

[DanO]

Originally posted by ak:
I was watching the feb BestMotoring video and the guy doesn't seem to double clutch while heel-toeing. He just blips the engine then shift. hmmm?

Transmissions with “syncro” gears do not require a double clutch technique. Double clutching is required to properly shift transmissions without syncro gears which are typically found on racecars. The NSX and all modern street cars have syncro gears. These are the gears that make the grinding noise when you mess up a shift. The gears act to spin up the countershaft (I think) to the proper speed so that easy gear engagement is possible on a downshift.

DanO

[This message has been edited by DanO (edited 11 March 2002).]