TODA Stroker kit and conrod bearings

[redtide]

You see i bought a stroker kit from TODA and they do not supply the Connecting rod bearings. and after months of measurements and countless emails, they finally came up with something. Please see related email from TODA below. Can anybody help me get the "RED" connecting rod bearings? Or what are your inputs on this? Thanks

TODA email:

Joaquin,

Here is what we suggest for the connecting rod bearings based on the
information you provided to us.

According to JDM NSX service manual,

Connecting rod bearing (thickness: 1.5mm)

Color tolerance:
Red -0.012~-0.015mm
Pink -0.009~-0.012mm
Yellow -0.006~-0.009mm
Green -0.003~-0.006mm
Brown 0~-0.003mm
Black +0.003~0mm
Blue +0.006~+0.003mm

Regarding your measurements,

(55.0164 - 52.000 - 0.050 - (1.5 * 2)) / 2 = -0.0168mm

0.050mm is recommended clearance for NSX rod bearings.
See attached instruction manual which I send you before.

The tolerance is out of range a little.
Though nearest tolerance is Red. (-0.012~-0.015mm)

Please measure inner diameter of large end with installing Red
bearings.
Of course, please tighten connecting rod bolt at 7kgf.m.

Then he must know the clearance precisely.

The customer says about only 1 journal.
Needless to say, he must measure and adjust clearances in each journal.

Best Regards,

TODA Racing USA
18410 Bandilier Circle
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
United States Of America
TEL: +1 714-968-7040
FAX: +1 714-968-7050
E-Mail: [email protected]

 

[BD]

Don't know the answer, BUT

You're DA MAN!!!

 

[redtide]

i don't get it bro.... but ok. anyone?

 

[IsR]

... this might not help as well.... but are you thinking of ITB as well??:biggrin:

Good luck on the project! Please post your developments

 

[Daedalus]

Connecting rod bearing (thickness: 1.5mm)

Color tolerance:
Red -0.012~-0.015mm
Pink -0.009~-0.012mm
Yellow -0.006~-0.009mm
Green -0.003~-0.006mm
Brown 0~-0.003mm
Black +0.003~0mm
Blue +0.006~+0.003mm

Regarding your measurements,

(55.0164 - 52.000 - 0.050 - (1.5 * 2)) / 2 = -0.0168mm

0.050mm is recommended clearance for NSX rod bearings.

Part number for Red Bearing (G) is 13217-PR7-A02, and is for 3.0L engines. Your profile says you have a 3.2L '91? 3.2L bearings are larger--the red bearing wouldn't work. Cost is about 11USD each.

It's pretty crappy that they will sell a crankshaft and connecting rods, but don't supply the appropriately-sized bearings.

I cannot confirm the above thicknesses and tolerances they gave, but IF they are correct then you will be within the acceptable bearing clearance range, but just *barely*. Acceptable journal clearance is .04-.06mm total.

55.0164 - 52.0000 - (1.5000*2) + (.0120 * 2) = .0404mm. .012 is from the worst case tolerance of the undersized bearing (.012-.015).

I would verify clearances with the bearings after they are installed just to be sure, as you are right on the hairy edge of being too tight. Did you measure all 6 crank journal surfaces and rods and get the same numbers? Seems very unlikely.

Can I assume they at least provided the crank main bearings? Did you provide them bore diameters for correct sizing?

 

[NSX R-GT]

how come you buy from TODA USA when you are not from the states?
just find some TODA dealer around your area, i have never seen or heard of anything from TODA for NSX were bought to North America, maybe they can't get the parts for you and trying to turn you away!
i have seen the TODA engine when i was in Japan! those cars are REALLY FAST! 350WHP on NA motor!

 

[JeffShoots]

.......Can I assume they at least provided the crank main bearings? Did you provide them bore diameters for correct sizing?

The Toda kit is like the SOS and use the same stock Acura main bearings. That's why I went with the CT kit as they machine the block and it uses Chevy main sizes for strength and cost.

Shad at Driving Ambitions was just talking about the use of another bearing that would work for over / undersizing the 3.2L mains. You might give him a call.

 

[BD]

Talk to member "Prospeed," he is a TODA dealer and should have some answers for you.

 

[redtide]

Part number for Red Bearing (G) is 13217-PR7-A02, and is for 3.0L engines. Your profile says you have a 3.2L '91? 3.2L bearings are larger--the red bearing wouldn't work. Cost is about 11USD each.

It's pretty crappy that they will sell a crankshaft and connecting rods, but don't supply the appropriately-sized bearings.

I cannot confirm the above thicknesses and tolerances they gave, but IF they are correct then you will be within the acceptable bearing clearance range, but just *barely*. Acceptable journal clearance is .04-.06mm total.

55.0164 - 52.0000 - (1.5000*2) + (.0120 * 2) = .0404mm. .012 is from the worst case tolerance of the undersized bearing (.012-.015).

I would verify clearances with the bearings after they are installed just to be sure, as you are right on the hairy edge of being too tight. Did you measure all 6 crank journal surfaces and rods and get the same numbers? Seems very unlikely.

Can I assume they at least provided the crank main bearings? Did you provide them bore diameters for correct sizing?

The crankshaft bearings i bought from an Acura dealer and they fit fine. the only problem i really have is the conrod bearings which TODA says they do not supply because of reliability issues.

I gave them all the specs w/ individual bore diameters. I am really almost at a dead end with this project.

 

[redtide]

... this might not help as well.... but are you thinking of ITB as well??:biggrin:

Good luck on the project! Please post your developments

Yeah I did order the ITB from them but now put it on hold until i can get the engine together and running. Ordered alot more like cams and valve springs etc from TODA and SOS.

This project was started on april of last year and has been on going since
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86705&highlight=redtide

 

[redtide]

how come you buy from TODA USA when you are not from the states?
just find some TODA dealer around your area, i have never seen or heard of anything from TODA for NSX were bought to North America, maybe they can't get the parts for you and trying to turn you away!
i have seen the TODA engine when i was in Japan! those cars are REALLY FAST! 350WHP on NA motor!

Dude, believe me, if there was a TODA dealer in my area, i would have but there isn't. We also do alot of traveling and business in the USA and have met some fellow Filipinos on prime who have helped out alot. Great community. Not to mention that i met with the Las Vegas club hosted by NY2NV. Great guy. He's seen the car and knows what i plan.

What you have seen in Japan is exactly what i am going for 350whp NA. Our NSX was formerly supercharged but did not enjoy it much.

Here you will see how this all started
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86705&highlight=redtide

 

[nsxhk]

Our NSX was formerly supercharged but did not enjoy it much.

Here you will see how this all started
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86705&highlight=redtide

Did not enjoy it much?? How come???

Henry.

 

[Daedalus]

The crankshaft bearings i bought from an Acura dealer and they fit fine. the only problem i really have is the conrod bearings which TODA says they do not supply because of reliability issues.

I gave them all the specs w/ individual bore diameters. I am really almost at a dead end with this project.

Is the engine original to the car? What really concerns me is that you measured the conrod bore at 55mm, but the manual says the standard diameter is 53mm for the 3.0L engine. The bearing used needs to take up the machining tolerances from both the con rod and the crank. If neither match the specs of the original parts, you cannot use any of the factory bearings. If you're really lucky maybe the parts you have match the 3.2L engine dimensions.

 

[redtide]

Did not enjoy it much?? How come???

Henry.

We had a gruppe M supercharger that came with the car but we couldn't seem to bring out it's full potential. Plus the fact that we did not know how to tune it.

And we also thought that the ITBs look "prettier" hahaha.

 

[redtide]

Is the engine original to the car? What really concerns me is that you measured the conrod bore at 55mm, but the manual says the standard diameter is 53mm for the 3.0L engine. The bearing used needs to take up the machining tolerances from both the con rod and the crank. If neither match the specs of the original parts, you cannot use any of the factory bearings. If you're really lucky maybe the parts you have match the 3.2L engine dimensions.

The conrod bore i measured was the conrod of TODA which measured at 55mm or 2.166 using a micrometer. You are probably referring to the OEM spec. I really do not know where to go from here as i have sent all the measurements to TODA and that email was the reply. I did not understand at first why they were asking me to measure this considering that the kit came from them. What i also do not understand is the main bearings i had fit perfectly. so i thought everything else would just follow.

 

[Daedalus]

You are probably referring to the OEM spec.

Yes, but that was my point. You can't use OEM bearings with parts that don't match OEM dimensions. You can have bearings custom made by a precision engine shop if you give them the data you have. I don't know what it would cost, but considering what you've already spent, it might be an easy decision.

How much total clearance did you have on the main bearings?

 

[redtide]

Yes, but that was my point. You can't use OEM bearings with parts that don't match OEM dimensions. You can have bearings custom made by a precision engine shop if you give them the data you have. I don't know what it would cost, but considering what you've already spent, it might be an easy decision.

How much total clearance did you have on the main bearings?

Hi Sir, i know exactly what you mean but i am at a loss since i am not a techy guy and i solely depend on what i can buy and and what is made available. It just saddens me that buying a KIT from TODA lead me to believe it was complete. WHich is why i turned to the forums.
Thanks for all you inputs.

 

[J-RnsxT]

What ever bearings you get, just make sure to measure it with plastigauge and the bearings are still with in tolerances. Goodluck on your build. BTW, is your NSX the first one in P.I.? Very cool.....:wink:

 

[redtide]

thanks... i'm taking everybody's opinions very seriously. for what we have spent for this, there is no room for error.
It is not the first in the Philippines as i think there are around 5 of them here but it will definitely be the ULTIMATE one

 

[JeffShoots]

update?

 

[redtide]

Still where i was from the start. Was supposed to leave for the US on the 23rd but it was moved to the 10th of July. I'll probably start getting in touch with people before i leave.
Planning to bring the crankshaft and conrods with me to have them done there.
As for the car itself, progress can be seen here:
http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=17568