Tires flipped...should I worry?

[newby]

I just looked at my rear tires and realized Tires Plus mounted the tires on the wrong wheels. Meaning, the inside rotation arrow is on the outside. I had the car out once since then and didn't notice a difference in handling.... but after doing a search on this site it appears that some people feel this is a big NO NO...

I don't track my car but do drive semi-aggressively once and awhile. Otherwise it's just a weekend toy. Should I take the time to bring the tires back in and have them remounted correctly? Is there going to be any changes in the wear pattern being the outside wall (probably stiffer) is now the inside wall?

thanks in advance....

 

[TurboLexus]

Are you kiddin'?

 

[digimanoc]

have you tried flipping the wheels to the other side of the car?

 

[nsxtasy]

Should I take the time to bring the tires back in and have them remounted correctly?

Yes.

have you tried flipping the wheels to the other side of the car?

That won't work, because the tires were mounted wrong. Since the inside sidewall was mounted on the outside (wrong side) of the wheel, if you move the wheel to the other side of the car, the inside sidewall will still be mounted on the outside (wrong side) of the wheel. The tire must be re-mounted and re-balanced before the proper side is on the outside (and, if it's an OEM tire which is directional as well as asymmetric, moved to the opposite side of the car).

Suggestion - It's probably not a good idea to use a smilie showing sarcasm when you're saying something in which you're wrong...

 

[NemesisX]

Tires are one of the most important things on a car.
I would take them in...even if your not concerned with grip you should be concerned with how the tire tread repels water...you might hydroplane much easier when caught in a downpour or going thru a puddle.
Think about it this way....Do you want risk totalling your NSX just because you were too lazy to put the tires on right?

 

[digimanoc]

Suggestion - It's probably not a good idea to use a smilie showing sarcasm when you're saying something in which you're wrong...

I've never heard of tires that have an inside and outside indicator....only directional arrows. My bad.

 

[myf16]

What, me worry?

I have driven thousands of miles with front A022H's intentionally reversed L-R. I could not feel any difference in hard street driving (=wearing out the tires in about 5k miles). A professional racer on a track probably could feel the difference. The standard mounting of the fronts is supposed to provide faster turn-in.

Reversed rears are a possible concern, since it will cause a slight oversteer bias. It shouldn't be anything as extreme as a Porsche 930 or an early MR2, however. If you can handle those cars, this should be easy.

On my own car, I would probably ask the shop to remount them (and they have done so before for free). But on my car, those rears would be toasted in 4k miles or less anyway.

 

[DocL]

Re: What, me worry?

I have driven thousands of miles with front A022H's intentionally reversed L-R. I could not feel any difference in hard street driving (=wearing out the tires in about 5k miles). A professional racer on a track probably could feel the difference. The standard mounting of the fronts is supposed to provide faster turn-in...

Then again, how many of us would try crossing a river in our NSX?

Just because you couldn't feel any difference with your tires doesn't mean that the tire isn't being used properly. I'd be willing to bet that if he called the tire manufacturer that they would tell him to have it corrected immediately. Why take a risk when the most important part between you and the road are the tires.

 

[nsxtasy]

I've never heard of tires that have an inside and outside indicator....only directional arrows. My bad.

No problem.

Incidentally, the inside and outside indicator is used on tires that are asymmetric, so that the proper side faces the outside. A few tires, including the OEM tires for the NSX (Yokohama A022H and Bridgestone RE010 for the '91-01, Bridgestone RE040 for the '02-05), are both directional (with the directional arrow) and asymmetric. In such cases, the tire can only be used on one side of the car, so you have to buy a "left tire" or a "right tire".

Some other tires on the market, such as the Falken Azenis RT-215, are asymmetric (which is easily visible when you look at the tread, as in the photo below), but NOT directional. They use this design to put larger tread blocks on the outside of the tread, so that more grip is provided during cornering. As long as the tires are mounted with the correct side outward, such tires can be mounted on either side of the car, and you can take a wheel/tire from one side of the car and move it to the other side of the car without taking the tire off the wheel.

As noted above, tires that are directional but symmetric (i.e. NOT asymmetric) can be moved from one side of the car to the other, but have to be re-mounted and re-balanced to do so.

Here are the Falkens:

 

[newby]

Tires are one of the most important things on a car.
I would take them in...even if your not concerned with grip you should be concerned with how the tire tread repels water...you might hydroplane much easier when caught in a downpour or going thru a puddle.
Think about it this way....Do you want risk totalling your NSX just because you were too lazy to put the tires on right?

It's not that I'm too lazy to do it....I've spent many hours working on my NSX this winter. I was just curious how big of a deal it would be considering I don't track the car.

Realistically, how much of a difference could it make. Nsxtasy seems to have the most knowledge on this... I've read other threads where he's commented about the Potenzas being asymmetric. So maybe he can answer this question.
I understand the reasoning for having the tires mounted properly, however is it just because the sidewall is stronger on the outside edge of the tire? What else does Bridgestone do to the tire to require it to rotate in only on direction and on only one side of the car? The reason I questioned the severity of the issue is because the markings on the tire are hardly noticeable. Just a small arrow molded in the tire that says (inside rotation). I can understand why the tire shop missed it. I also did not see anything on the tire spec sheet attached to each wheel (I didn't look that close though)

I'll have them switched back, but I'm just curious about this....

And BTW...

digimanoc.....fortunately Nsxtasy caught your scarism before I got back to this thread. He was nice about it :smile: :smile:

thanks for the input guys...

 

[NSX-Racer]

I understand the reasoning for having the tires mounted properly, however is it just because the sidewall is stronger on the outside edge of the tire? What else does Bridgestone do to the tire to require it to rotate in only on direction and on only one side of the car?

It's not only the things you see: The tread inside the tire is wired asymetric to withstand the forces of braking and accelerating.
And - of course - it's the profile that is designed to work best in one direction (e.g. through water).

 

[myf16]

As I understand it, the radial plies are biased slightly so that the tire is constantly trying to turn just a bit. When mounted correctly, the rears are trying to turn inward, the fronts outward. In the case of the fronts, this reduces the time needed to esablish maximum grip when starting a turn. (As I said, outside the race track I don't see how you'd ever notice.) For the rears, this reduces any tendancy (which the NSX does not really have anyway) toward oversteer (rears steering outward when you shift weight forward on the suspension). It's all subtle enough that you will not be able to tell the difference unless you are a real race driver, IMHO.

 

[NSX-Racer]

As I understand it, the radial plies are biased slightly so that the tire is constantly trying to turn just a bit. When mounted correctly, the rears are trying to turn inward, the fronts outward.

Are you sure that the plies are responsable for that and not the toe in/toe out alignment of the suspension?

 

[DocL]

It's not that I'm too lazy to do it....I've spent many hours working on my NSX this winter. I was just curious how big of a deal it would be considering I don't track the car.

Realistically, how much of a difference could it make....I understand the reasoning for having the tires mounted properly...[/B]

There's a reason why tires need to be mounted in a specific direction, just look it up. Here's a great link that I'm more than happy to share with you. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/tire.htm

If you understand the reasoning, why do you keep bringing up and asking the same questions. Why don't you just call Bridgestone and ask them the same questions that have already been answered here, some of which are common sense.

 

[myf16]

Are you sure that the plies are responsable for that and not the toe in/toe out alignment of the suspension?

It's both. The tire bias wouldn't be effective if the toe were reversed. The idea is that the tire is already flexed the correct way before you start turning.

 

[titaniumdave]

If you are concerned enough to ask the question, I would guess you are concerned enough to have it right. If it were mine, I would not think twice about getting the mounting done correctly.

As you asked in your first post, Don't worry, get it corrected. Then go for a nice spirited with out this little question in the back of your mind. :biggrin:

 

[nsxtasy]

I would take the tires in and have them re-mounted. They ought to do so for free, so it's just a matter of your time. Do it when it's convenient. Heck, if you don't drive your NSX in winter, and it's a pair of tires and you have a pair of jacks or a jackstand, you could even remove the tires from the car and bring them to the tire dealer inside another car, and the NSX wouldn't need to go anywhere...

 

[newby]

There's a reason why tires need to be mounted in a specific direction, just look it up. Here's a great link that I'm more than happy to share with you. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/tire.htm

If you understand the reasoning, why do you keep bringing up and asking the same questions. Why don't you just call Bridgestone and ask them the same questions that have already been answered here, some of which are common sense.

Thanks for the link...however it said nothing in there explaining how asymmetric tires are built. What makes them different from a standard directional tire.
Yeah, directional is common sense...but If the properties of asymmetrical tires are common sense to you...why don't you explain so the rest of us know??
I appreciate the opinions and explanations that a few of you gave.....

After doing some of my own research...here is what I found out:

Yokohama and Pirelli are the major players that are manufacturing Asymmetric tread design tires. The design of this tire is predominantly for the purpose of a more solid shoulder for better turn in response.

Yokohama calls referres to this attribute as Low Void Shoulder. Yokohama states that this feature enhances vehicle stability. Decreased groove area in the shoulder area and increases rubber-to road-contact. The result is noticably sharper cornering with less tread squirm.

Pirelli states: The outer element, with robust blocks, ensures excellent dry grip whilst the inner circumferential element has wide grooves for rapid water dispersal. The shoulder sipes moderate the rigidity of the longitudinal tread blocks to improve quietness and comfort but, comfort in particular, is resultant of the multi-pitch pattern and compliant tread compound.

These tire patterns show sidewall branding
indicating "side facing outward." The odd,
often metioned thing about this tread design
is that the inner part of the tread design will
often appear to be runing the "wrong way"
on one side of the vehicle, rest assured
they are not.

 

[DocL]

...Yeah, directional is common sense...but If the properties of asymmetrical tires are common sense to you...why don't you explain so the rest of us know??...

I may have not expressed my meaning of common sense properly, I appologize. To me, if something is clearly instructed on a product, I usually follow those instructions. I did not mean to intend that you were lacking in common sense. My concern was that you were driving your car with improperly mounted tires (your asumption) with the knowledge that they installed incorrectly. To continue to ask the same questions over and over again, convincing yourself as to how the car will or will not be driven, and having been given reasons why the situation should be corrected, I could only assume that you were not using any common sense as to the potential severity of the possible risks.

 

[myf16]

Thanks for the link...however it said nothing in there explaining how asymmetric tires are built.

I believe that the radial plies are skewed slightly one way rather than being perpendicular to the direction of travel.

 

[Meeyatch1]

Re: What, me worry?

Then again, how many of us would try crossing a river in our NSX?

ME!! ME!! ME!!!

 

[Meeyatch1]

I would switch them back as soon as possible....having worked for a tire retailer previously, I can tell you that it IS important to have them mounted properly.

 

[newby]

I may have not expressed my meaning of common sense properly, I appologize. To me, if something is clearly instructed on a product, I usually follow those instructions. I did not mean to intend that you were lacking in common sense. My concern was that you were driving your car with improperly mounted tires (your asumption) with the knowledge that they installed incorrectly. To continue to ask the same questions over and over again, convincing yourself as to how the car will or will not be driven, and having been given reasons why the situation should be corrected, I could only assume that you were not using any common sense as to the potential severity of the possible risks.

DocL

Thanks for the explanation. Personally I don't see any risks involved with having the tire flipped. If it was dangerous, the manufacture would make it much more obvious for installers to know what side is what (like paint the inside RED) From the defination I got it states the tires are designed that way to perform better....with respect to rotation and cornering. So you may lose a bit of handling by having the tires reversed which I doubt you would notice driving the car normally...which was why I asked if it was a big deal considering I do not track my car.

Just because something says..."it should be this way" doesn't mean we should all throw up our arms and say "Why ask why?" That's not common sense....that is just adapting to what is said. I prefer to question a situation or product and then decide if it works or doesn't :smile:

Meeyatch1....you stressed that it IS important to have the tires mounted properly. Have you seen any accidents or excessive damage that came from having the tires flipped on the rim? Just curious...

 

[nsxtasy]

Meeyatch1....you stressed that it IS important to have the tires mounted properly. Have you seen any accidents or excessive damage that came from having the tires flipped on the rim? Just curious...

I bet everyone he knows (and this is certainly true of everyone I know) who has found out that the tires were mounted incorrectly, had them re-mounted properly fairly soon thereafter.

May I ask why you are so stubbornly refusing to take the tires back to the shop that mounted them incorrectly, and letting them fix their error? I'm sure it's not a matter of your time, since it would probably take you less time to simply have the tires re-mounted correctly than you have already spent arguing with those who have recommended that you do so.

Then again, I could never understand anyone who asks for advice from those with expertise, receives excellent helpful advice, and then proceeds to disagree with those giving it... Do you just enjoy jerking people around, or are you grossly insensitive to the fact that people are spending their time trying to help you and in return you are kicking them in the @ss for doing so?

 

[myf16]

I bet everyone he knows (and this is certainly true of everyone I know) who has found out that the tires were mounted incorrectly, had them re-mounted properly fairly soon thereafter.

As the "spook" in the movie Independence Day said to the President: "That's not exactly correct..."

I have on occasion specifically requested that the fronts be mounted on the wrong side. I found that doing this before the insides wear halfway down roughly doubled the number of miles I could use them. From 3000 to 6000 miles, that is.

I requested that the fronts on my current set be reversed, but the incompetent installers put them on correctly instead. I decided to try them that way for a change. :biggrin: