timing belt FYI

Joined
9 January 2002
Messages
782
Location
Iowa
Did the 60K service on my '92 last week. 54,000 miles and the timing belt literally looked brand new, BTW, the other drive belts,the timing belt tensioner and the old water pump were also in excellent condition.
I guess its cheap insurance but I'm beginning to doubt the old recomended service intervals.
 
Mine was in pretty good shape too at 90K and 12 years old. I was told that although it looked new, you couldn't truly know the condition just by looking at it.
 
Wouldn't it be interesting for someone to collect all these used T-belts and to send them to someone who could properly test them (like a belt manufacturer).

-Jim



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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords
 
I don't think there's any issue here. I wouldn't expect the belt manufacturer or Honda to alter their current suggested replacement standard interval.

There's always safety margins and many variables to take into account. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the timing belt has a safety factor of 2 - meaning that it really could withstand twice the time and mileage that Honda specifies.

But as we know, some people live in wet and humid climates which could have an effect. Some drivers run their engines more aggresively than others. I'm sure there's also the potential of manufacturing tolerances to cause some belts to fail before others.

I would just be curious to see from a academic point-of-view how strong and close to original breaking spec a 10 year old timing belt is.

-Jim

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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords
 
PLEASE NOTE that a T-belt replaced within Honda's interval SHOULD appear almost-new. Isn't that the idea for replacement specs - to replace the thing before it wears out? If a T-belt was on its last thread at replacement I think Honda would adjust the spec to less time/mileage.
 
I was going to start a new thread, but this one seems appropriate enough. I'm am currently trying to figure out what route I should take with this timing belt issue. My NSX is a '91 with 56K. I wrote my local dealership for the costs on a 60K maintainance and timing belt/H2O pump switch out. At first I recieved a reply quoting me $2,500 for the work. When I went in and had them look the car over, they called me 2 weeks later saying it would run 3G's for the exact same work! What?

How many others have had these 2 done at the same time and what should normally be paid? With all the timing belt issues coming up, it is becoming hard for me to justify the costs. Understood that my baby deserves the care, but my Legend went 210,000 miles on its original belt. We swore we would drive the thing into the ground before we put any maintainance into the thing, and we did. The clutch turned into dust so we finally had the belt and pump changed at the same time as the clutch. Low and behold, the belt looked amazingly new (though looks mean nothing) and my mechanic mearly shrugged and stated, "these honda belts last forever". Now I'm supposed to turn around and drop 3G's into routine maintainance? How much are the used engines going for? It's got to be getting close to the same in cost. Can somebody with more experience or brains tell me what I need to do here?

[This message has been edited by Juice (edited 15 May 2002).]
 
Juice,

A 60K maintenance should cost $800-1000 and a TB/WP replacement should cost around $1200. $3000 is too high. Some suggestions:

1. Ask your dealer whether they are doing any services in addition to those specified in the owner's manual.

2. Get an estimate from the other dealer in town.

3. Consider checking out of town as well. (I know that some years ago, Park Acura in Akron was doing quite a bit of service on NSXs brought from Columbus and Cleveland.)

With all the timing belt issues coming up, it is becoming hard for me to justify the costs.

Would you rather risk replacing your engine? With labor, that could cost over $20K for a new engine, maybe half that amount for a used one (which is not necessarily any better than the one you're considering running into the ground).

Now I'm supposed to turn around and drop 3G's into routine maintainance?

Routine maintenance is part of the cost of ownership, and it's very predictable. You can expect to pay $800-1000 every 60K miles, and a little less ($600-800) in the intervening 30K mile intervals. Another $1200 for the TB/WP every 90K miles or every 6 years, whichever comes first. This is a normal cost of ownership, and these costs are not out of line with most other cars.

Maybe you got lucky with your Legend, but the whole idea behind preventive maintenance is just that - to prevent your car from needing repairs that are much more expensive than the maintenance costs.

How much are the used engines going for?

Much more than it costs to do the preventive maintenance.

Skipping scheduled maintenance to save money is just plain stupid - and, in the long run, it will probably cost just as much or more.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 15 May 2002).]
 
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Juice,


With all the timing belt issues coming up, it is becoming hard for me to justify the costs.

Would you rather risk replacing your engine?
Now I'm supposed to turn around and drop 3G's into routine maintainance?

Skipping scheduled maintenance to save money is just plain stupid -
).]

At the considerable risk of challenging these opinions:

The timing belt issue is one that I've spent a lot of time agonizing over, and it certainly, IMHO, is not as simple as "the owner's manual says do it, so just do it."

I believe that Honda's recommendation for timing belt replacement is at 90000 mi or 6 years. (Checked my owner's manual quickly, and can't find the 6 year stipulation, but suspect it's there somewhere.)

When to perform timing belt replacement on a car as uncommon as the NSX is problematic. In fact because of the rarity of the NSX, relatively few technicians can have performed timing belt replacements. I suspect that most Acura mechanics have never done one. Although I certainly am not a mechanic, I suspect that, as the most expensive of the schedule maintenance items, it is probably the most technically challenging and time consuming. In the hands of a mechanic inexperienced in this procedure, the chance of either doing something wrong in the repair or messing something else up or even doing cosmetic damage to the car is probably relatively likely. Certainly this could be avoided by seeking out a mechanic experienced in the procedure, but it is often hard to justify the need for travel perhaps to a distant city, with competing work, family commitments, etc. to find such a mechanic.
I think that few would disagree with the 90000 mile criterion, but the problem arises with the six year stipulation. Many of us have more than six year old cars with less than 90000 miles. Again because of the rarity of the NSX, a timing belt taken off the parts room shelf theoretically could be older than the one that you're removing from your car!
Finally, on the maintenance schedule in my owner's manual, an asterix comment next to the "R" for replacement of the timing belt says "this service is recommended only". Not sure what that means, but it suggests to me that Honda may be hedging even on that recommendation.
Since I've been following this Forum, I've heard several allusions to NSX timing belts failing, but I haven't read any posts from anyone who has cited first-hand knowledge of a belt breaking. It would be very useful for me to know of specific instances (mileage, with normal driving vs. on the track...)of belt failure to help guide me in in my decision about when to replace my belt.
 
I paid $1100 for my timing belt and water pump replacement on my 1st NSX and I'm about to do the same on my 2nd. I also recently paid $800 to replace the timing belt on our Honda Odyssey minivan as well.

I can't imagine any reason not to be reasonably prudent and to change the belt. The risks surely outweigh the costs.

I don't think owners of low-mileage 91-94 NSXes need to change their belts first thing Monday morning, but I do think it makes sense to respect the safety margins and to plan to get it done soon.

Ignoring safety margins and trying to extrapolate replacement schedules from anecdotal data (i.e. It's been 10 years and 100K miles and MY belt still looked like new) is pure folly. It reminds me of the wishful thinking that took place the morning of the last flight of the Challenger.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords
 
If you were out here in Southern California, we could arrange the service for $1800 for both the 60K and T-Belt/Pump.

Originally posted by Juice:
I was going to start a new thread, but this one seems appropriate enough. I'm am currently trying to figure out what route I should take with this timing belt issue. My NSX is a '91 with 56K. I wrote my local dealership for the costs on a 60K maintainance and timing belt/H2O pump switch out. At first I recieved a reply quoting me $2,500 for the work. When I went in and had them look the car over, they called me 2 weeks later saying it would run 3G's for the exact same work! What?

How many others have had these 2 done at the same time and what should normally be paid? With all the timing belt issues coming up, it is becoming hard for me to justify the costs. Understood that my baby deserves the care, but my Legend went 210,000 miles on its original belt. We swore we would drive the thing into the ground before we put any maintainance into the thing, and we did. The clutch turned into dust so we finally had the belt and pump changed at the same time as the clutch. Low and behold, the belt looked amazingly new (though looks mean nothing) and my mechanic mearly shrugged and stated, "these honda belts last forever". Now I'm supposed to turn around and drop 3G's into routine maintainance? How much are the used engines going for? It's got to be getting close to the same in cost. Can somebody with more experience or brains tell me what I need to do here?

[This message has been edited by Juice (edited 15 May 2002).]



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acrmotorsports_1681_33419


www.acrmotorsports.com
 
westernb4, I disagree with what you say, with regard to the competency of the NSX technicians to do this work, as well as the freshness of the parts. Most of our disagreement comes down to this statement that you make:

Originally posted by westernb4:
In fact because of the rarity of the NSX, relatively few technicians can have performed timing belt replacements.

In fact, many of the dealers (and independent mechanics) who do a fair amount of NSX business are now doing a lot of timing belt and water pump replacements. Part of it is because more and more cars are reaching the 90K mileage level (with a few even reaching the 180K mileage level for their SECOND replacement), and part of it is because many owners are waking up to the fact that this replacement is now overdue on all the '91-94 NSX's that are out there.

Any dealer that does a fair amount of NSX service work is probably doing a lot of timing belt replacements along with their usual share of 30K and 60K services, clutch replacements, and other typical repair and maintenance services. If you're not sure, just ask the service manager how many NSX timing belt replacements they've done in the previous six months. You might be surprised.

Granted, there are some dealers that do a lot of NSX service work, and some that don't do a lot. I wouldn't take mine to the latter for any complicated NSX service. If you're in a small market with a single Acura dealer, like Roanoke VA or Fayetteville AR, the tech may not have done any timing belt replacements lately. But in any major metropolitan area, they are indeed being done - and even more so in an area with multiple Acura dealerships, where one or two may tend to do the bulk of the NSX service work.

Originally posted by westernb4:
It would be very useful for me to know of specific instances (mileage, with normal driving vs. on the track...)of belt failure to help guide me in in my decision about when to replace my belt.

Mark Basch, who is on these forums, has stated that he has worked on several of these cases (and they're not a pretty sight). Maybe he can provide additional details.

Originally posted by ACR_Motorsports:
If you were out here in Southern California, we could arrange the service for $1800 for both the 60K and T-Belt/Pump.

That's a GREAT DEAL!!!

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 19 May 2002).]
 
Houston, we have a problem.

The Acura dealer here has never done an NSX timing belt. The car is running great and they want to do the work and I sort of agreed but I am still thinking of running the car to Wisconsin, it probably will blow up at the border.
 
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