Time for Timing Belt -- What Else?

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5 June 2006
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Metrowest, MA
Hi,

I have a 2003 NSX and my timing belt is due for a change this year. I know about the water pump, but is there anything else I should be having done at the same time? I will also be installing pivot clamps, toe links, and non-compliance rear beam if that is relevant. Thanks for the advice.
 
You might consider cam seals while your there. If your going to do that then you might do the cam plugs. If your going to do that then you should do the valve cover gasket. While you have the valve cover off, you might consider doing the valve adjustment clearance. Then you should do a oil change just in case anything got in there. Since your at the mechanics, you should have change the spool valve gaskets also.

Should I continue....LOL :biggrin:
 
I would surely think of adjusting the valves. As far as cam seals, lugs and valve cover gasket - which would be replaced after a valve adjustment - if it isn't leaking - I wouldn't touch it. If it is then do the cam seals and lugs. I'd check any hoses you have too those are always something to make sure you have no issues with at all. A blown hose is one of the most problematic issues if they break - you really never want to over heat these engines! Check the oil cooler hoses as well.

You are just now at the TB/WP replacement range. So how many miles do you have on the car? If they are low and you garrage your car in a conditioned environment then you most likely could wait another year - of course I'm running the risk of being blasted by some but - if it was me I wouldn't be in a hurry to do it if you have low miles on the car. That's me but I don't garauntee TBs or WPs. But after all it's a 2003 - just now having 7 years on it. Not a big deal in my book if the miles are low as I said. For your year it's 7 years or 105k miles.

My 2 cents.
 
If your cam seals do start to leak, then the timing belt will have to come off again. Again, it all depends on your risk tolerance. Cams seals are cheap and the labor is about an hour extra.

You know what going to happen, right? You tell the guy not to do it and 3 months later his cams seals starts to leak. :biggrin:
 
Double check your quote for the timing belt service re: valve adjustment. Sometimes the valve adjustment is in the quote already.
 
Rather than merely checking the cooling system hoses, I would go ahead and replace them as good preventive maintenance - the big ones at a minimum, and doing all of them is not a bad idea.

I also recommend replacing the crankshaft pulley, which can come apart after a number of years if you don't. If it does come apart, it can start wearing into and then through the timing belt cover, and cause the engine to jump the timing. If that happens, you may need to rebuild or replace the engine. BTDT.
 
You might consider cam seals while your there. If your going to do that then you might do the cam plugs. If your going to do that then you should do the valve cover gasket. While you have the valve cover off, you might consider doing the valve adjustment clearance. Then you should do a oil change just in case anything got in there. Since your at the mechanics, you should have change the spool valve gaskets also.

Should I continue....LOL :biggrin:

THis is exactly how I think.
 
Thanks for the replies so far. I figured I would add that the car is primarily driven at the track, if that affects the advice at all. Thanks again.
 
Having a car that is tracked a lot changes my advice totally. What the others said at a minimum and of course do the cam cover gaskets and cam plugs - might as well get the balancer too. I would surely do all preventive maintenance if it's a track toy!
 
Valve Adjustment
Cam Seals and Plugs
Cooling Hoses
Timing Belt Tensioner
Crankshaft pulley
Timing Belt Shield

I believe the car has had the valve cover gasket replaced... I'll have to double check my maintenence records. I have a baffled pan but no accusump. Based on my research, it is not yet required as I am on stock tires and not generating the sustained G-forces for it to be necessary.

Car has 34k miles on it. You guys are making my mechanic a rich man, I can tell. How much can I expect for all of this to cost?
 
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Valve Adjustment
Cam Seals and Plugs
Cooling Hoses
Timing Belt Tensioner
Crankshaft pulley
Timing Belt Shield

I believe the car has had the valve cover gasket replaced... I'll have to double check my maintenence records. I have a baffled pan but no accusump. Based on my research, it is not yet required as I am on stock tires and not generating the sustained G-forces for it to be necessary.

Car has 34k miles on it. You guys are making my mechanic a rich man, I can tell. How much can I expect for all of this to cost?

I think you can hold off on the hoses as your cars a 2003, but maybe that's just me.
 
With only 34K and being a 2003, it's really a toss up if you should do all that stuff. The only thing effecting this decision is that you track your car. It really depends on your risk tolerance.

Some of the items have a higher potential to cause damage if they fail. The other items are merely maintenance.

If I were you, I would only do:
-Timing Belt
-Water Pump
-Timing Belt Shield

All the other items I doubt will fail with such low miles. And the other ones like valve cover gaskets and spool valve gaskets are more of a nuisance than catastrophic damage.

The valve clearance stay within specs very well. Especially with only 34K miles. I think Honda even increased the recommended interval for it.

The coolant hose should still be good. There is a lot of 91 with original hoses and 100K+ miles.

The crankshaft pulley and belt tensioner should still be good. It doubt it will fail anytime soon. Plus the mechanic can check it when he removes the timing belt.

I would wait to do all the above on the next timing belt change .

Maybe you can shoot a PM to LarryB and see what he thinks.
 
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How much can I expect for all of this to cost?
The biggest cost is the timing belt and water pump service. It's not the parts themselves, but rather, the work needed to get access to them. That service alone runs $1200-1800, including parts and labor.

The other items are in the hundreds of dollars. A few hundred dollars for the cooling system hoses, plus a few hours labor. A few hundred dollars for the valve adjustment. The crankshaft pulley is around $200 or so for the part and no more than an hour for the labor; the timing belt shield with labor is maybe $100-200.

All together you're probably looking at somewhere in the $2500-3000 range, I'm guessing, not counting your suspension work. The good news is, once you do all of this, you're good and you don't need to do it again for another seven years.

The coolant hose should still be good. There is a lot of 91 with original hoses and 100K+ miles.
Wow, this is REALLY bad advice.

Cooling system hoses can, and do, fail. And almost always at an inconvenient time and place, too. In fact, many original hoses have failed on '91 cars with 100K+ miles; some failed years ago.

Don't wait another seven years. Just do it. And doing it at the same time as the water pump service, when you are already flushing the coolant and you have easy access to the hoses, just makes sense (and saves money).
 
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I think my car still has all original coolant hoses. I've got the box of hoses from SOS waiting to be installed. I'm kind of surprised none of them have failed yet (to my knowledge). I'm also doing the crank pulley and shield while I'm at it.

But my car is a 91, which is 3x older than yours. I can't imagine those things needing to be done already on a 2003. The track driving part could change that though.
 
I can't imagine those things needing to be done already on a 2003.
Doing it now is a good idea. Waiting another seven years, till the next time you do the TB/WP, when the hoses will be 14 years old, is taking a serious risk. Not that you can't do it before then, but it's easier to do now, all at the same time.
 
Doing the coolant hoses has no overlap with anything he is doing. No need to wait until another 7 yrs to do it.

I'm not sure why my advice to wait on coolant hoses for a 34K 2003 NSX is that bad.

If it was a 1991 with 100K, it might have been bad advice not to change it. I'm just giving him something to compare to. I would guess that more than half of 1991 and 1992 still have orignal hoses and have not failed. If they are that prone to failure, why are we buying the OEM ones.
 
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I'm not sure why my advice to wait on coolant hoses for a 34K 2003 NSX is that bad.

.

I have to agree on this one, if it was so critical, I would think Honda engineers would of included in the maintenance schedule, the same as the TB and WP. You will not automatically wreck an engine if your coolant holes fail...not the same for a timing belt...

Obviously at some point it's a judgement call but based on the year and mileage of this car I think it's premature.
 
Doing the coolant hoses has no overlap with anything he is doing.
Absolutely not true. You eliminate the redundancy of flushing the coolant more than once (it's done when replacing the water pump, and you would do it when replacing coolant hoses) and you also have the advantage of easier access to the hoses when you get access to the water pump.

I'm not sure why my advice to wait on coolant hoses for a 34K 2003 NSX is that bad.
Because (a) it involves less work and a lower cost to do it now (see above), and (b) it's the best example of preventive maintenance I can think of - replacing parts that commonly fail over time.

I would guess that more than half of 1991 and 1992 still have orignal hoses and have not failed.
I would guess that you are wrong on both counts.

Larry B works on NSXs all the time. Ask him how many failed original hoses he has seen. Ask him what condition those original 19-year-old hoses are in. Ask him if it's a good idea to replace them. Ask him if they should have been replaced many years ago.

Or, if you're just feeling lucky, don't replace them. See how much it costs you when they fail somewhere on the road.

If they are that prone to failure, why are we buying the OEM ones.
Because all hoses will fail after a number of years, OEM or aftermarket.

Sheesh... :rolleyes:

if it was so critical, I would think Honda engineers would of included in the maintenance schedule
They DO include them in the maintenance schedule. But they only specify an interval (every 2 years or 30K miles, whichever comes first) for inspecting them, rather than replacing them. This implies that (a) if any cracks or a spongey feel or other anomalies are observed, they should be replaced, and (b) the hoses do, in fact, fail after a period of time and/or use.

So the official advice of those Honda engineers whose advice you're recommending is that your mechanic should take a close look at these hoses at least once every two years. Which is good advice too. You can't always tell that a hose is going to fail by looking and squeezing, but you can catch a lot of them that way.

You will not automatically wreck an engine if your coolant holes fail...
Also absolutely not true. If a cooling system hose fails, the motor overheats. Keep driving it, and yes, you will indeed wreck the engine.

But it's your car, and if you want to save a few hundred bucks by not replacing the hoses, or the timing belt for that matter, and you're happy to take the risk of having to spend many thousands of dollars to replace your engine because you saved a few bucks on hoses, be my guest!

Obviously at some point it's a judgement call but based on the year and mileage of this car I think it's premature.
You are welcome to your opinion, even though it ignores basic facts and makes assumptions that are simply not true. You are also welcome to do whatever you want on your car, because you will pay for the consequences. However, the OP was asking what he can do for his car at this time. I think he would be foolish NOT to replace the hoses. I also think he would be foolish to follow the advice of someone who clearly doesn't know what he's talking about and doesn't understand the consequences of not doing the work involved (and won't be paying any of the costs of those consequences). If the OP has any doubts, he should ask his mechanic about the costs of replacing the cooling system hoses and their chances of failing, and follow his advice (especially if the mechanic has serviced a lot of NSXs over the years and is familiar with the problems that commonly occur on them).
 
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I think my car still has all original coolant hoses. I've got the box of hoses from SOS waiting to be installed. I'm kind of surprised none of them have failed yet (to my knowledge). I'm also doing the crank pulley and shield while I'm at it.

But my car is a 91, which is 3x older than yours. I can't imagine those things needing to be done already on a 2003. The track driving part could change that though.

I gotta ask, what are you waiting for? I blew a main coolant hose and was lucky that I saw it happen (through my mesh engine cover). As mentioned above, it never happens at a convenient time or place. Just change them.
 
This debate beautifully sums up an age old dilemma: which doctrine takes priority, the "while you're in there" or the "if it's not broke don't fix it"?

I haven't figured it out yet.
 
I gotta ask, what are you waiting for? I blew a main coolant hose and was lucky that I saw it happen (through my mesh engine cover). As mentioned above, it never happens at a convenient time or place. Just change them.

I just got them recently. I'm waiting for the $800+ I'll need to pay the shop to install them for me. I'm doing the crank pulley and shield at the same time. Probably at the end of the month.
 
Also absolutely not true. If a cooling system hose fails, the motor overheats. Keep driving it, and yes, you will indeed wreck the engine.

I said automatically, yes if you keep driving a car that is overheating you will damage your motor, warped heads etc, blown headgasket. This is still not the same as when your timing belt fails. Don't lump the two together, you have a warning with a blown coolant hose, i.e temp gage, not the same with a failed timing belt.

And as for replacing the hoses, I don't think it really saves him much to do them with the timing belt now, so I am not saying he shouldn't do them, I just don't think he has to do them now. Inspect sure, replace...depends on what they find.
 


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