Throttle blipper

Joined
27 June 2003
Messages
1,443
Location
Lenexa, KS, USA
I am not a very coordinated person when it comes to heel-n-toe. I have been trying to get the knack for a while and am no closer today than when I started.

I had a thought as to how to remedy the situation.

Since the NSX is throttle-by-wire, why couldn't I put a pushbutton of some sort on the shifter? I envision something like a trigger to blip the throttle from the shifter knob.

Does this sound reasonable or even feasible?
 
Mark, you might want to try some custom pedals. IMO the stock pedals aren't located in the best place for heel-toe. I think the throttle would be better located farther towards the driver.

As far as getting the hang of it, try to think of it this way: blipping the gas and depressing the clutch should occur simultaneously. I think it's actually easier to get the hang of on a motorcycle.

good luck
 
hlweyl said:
Mark, you might want to try some custom pedals. IMO the stock pedals aren't located in the best place for heel-toe. I think the throttle would be better located farther towards the driver.

As far as getting the hang of it, try to think of it this way: blipping the gas and depressing the clutch should occur simultaneously. I think it's actually easier to get the hang of on a motorcycle.
Custom pedals will definetly help. Also wearing the right type of shoe believe it or not will make a huge difference. With regards on execution, I noticed that it works better in my NSX to blimp the throttle as I downshift. If I do it while disengaging the clutch, the RPMs drop too fast, past where they should be when I re-engage the clutch. I could of course rev the engine even higher to compensate this but it wouldn't be "blimping" the throttle anymore :D
 
Go and practice on a 4 cyl car. Easier to learn, especially if it has an intake and exhaust (more noise). To me, todays cars are easier to blip by NOT actually doing the "old school" "heel and toe". In the old days, the pedals were miles apart, and you had to actually use your toe on the brake, and twist your foot sideways to hit the gas with your "heel" of your foot. Modern cars, especially sports cars, have the pedals real tight to each other. 99% of modern cars, I actually turn the heel-and-toe into "ball and pinky toe"!!!!!

Seriously I use the ball of my foot (the pad just below the big toe, and twist my foot (while keeping the foot pointing straight ahead) to the right to allow the extreme right edge (pinky toe) of my shoe to actually blip the throttle.

The thing you need to remember is practice makes perfect. By this I mean you are NOT learning anything by driving the automatic Tahoe!!!!!! You are only on the track with the NSX a few hours a week, but how many hours are in your "daily driver"??? Heel and toe is NOT just for the track. I get 100 times the hours in my daily driver than my NSX, and it is a manual. I heel and toe to work, to the store, to drop the kids off etc etc. I have a 4 cyl mazda!!! Not only is it fun to heel and toe in the daily driver, it helps you practice (not that I need any ;) ) but most important, it saves on your clutch, flywheel, drivetrain, and tires!!!!!
 
I had the same problem. Solution was to add a “throttle blipper”. Since none existed, I designed my own. On track day, I remove the cruse control motor and mount a very simple starter solenoid connected to the cruse control throttle cable (the other side of the cable is connected to the throttle pedal linkage). I rigged up a small button (switch) on the top of my shift knob which activates the solenoid through a simple relay. By adjusting the throw on the solenoid (or slack in the cruse control cable) I can get the engine to quickly rev to any rpm I want and hold it. I can also vary the rpm by modulating the activation switch. Works great and makes you sound like a pro on the track. After track day I re-mount the cruse control motor and everything is happy. If you’re interested, I can add pictures. Good luck . . . . . don't know if the later NSXs use the same cruse control system.
 
T Bell said:
...By this I mean you are NOT learning anything by driving the automatic Tahoe!!!!!! You are only on the track with the NSX a few hours a week, but how many hours are in your "daily driver"???...
Tom,

The NSX is my daily driver. I only drive the Denali when I am going to track events. So, I get lots of time to practice and still can't seem to get it to work for me.
 
MarkB said:
Tom,

The NSX is my daily driver. I only drive the Denali when I am going to track events. So, I get lots of time to practice and still can't seem to get it to work for me.

3 words of advice: practice, practice, practice.

make sure you have shoes with a flexible sole, makes a world of difference in the "feeling" department. Oh, that and did I mention "practice" ? ;)
 
T Bell said:
Seriously I use the ball of my foot (the pad just below the big toe, and twist my foot (while keeping the foot pointing straight ahead) to the right to allow the extreme right edge (pinky toe) of my shoe to actually blip the throttle.
This makes sense and I wonder how many other NSXers use this technique. To do the traditional heel-toe (ball of foot on brake and heel on throttle), it seems you either need to have a deformed foot or wearing 3 inch pumps.
:p
 
I ditto the "practice, practice, practice" remarks. But even further that that: "perfect pratice, perfect practice, perfect practice." Practice heel-n-toe as slowly and gradually as you perfectly can. Master the first step first and then so on. I am by no means a professional driver but I'm miles away from where I first started by doing H&T this very way. After you've mastered each step put each step together in order. And then master the whole process. And don't be easily dismayed or disappointed. You can do it....it is possible.

Hope you can make one of our private track days next year at Hallett or TRP - I'd like to help you on the H&T if I can. Oh, and you can practice left-foot braking in the Denali. ;)
 
Mark911 said:
I had the same problem. Solution was to add a “throttle blipper”. Since none existed, I designed my own. On track day, I remove the cruse control motor and mount a very simple starter solenoid connected to the cruse control throttle cable (the other side of the cable is connected to the throttle pedal linkage). I rigged up a small button (switch) on the top of my shift knob which activates the solenoid through a simple relay. By adjusting the throw on the solenoid (or slack in the cruse control cable) I can get the engine to quickly rev to any rpm I want and hold it. I can also vary the rpm by modulating the activation switch. Works great and makes you sound like a pro on the track. After track day I re-mount the cruse control motor and everything is happy. If you’re interested, I can add pictures. Good luck . . . . . don't know if the later NSXs use the same cruse control system.

After seeing your creativity with the Eaton supercharger, I am not surprised at all that you derived another creative solution for your car:)
 
Ponyboy said:
I ditto the "practice, practice, practice" remarks. But even further that that: "perfect pratice, perfect practice, perfect practice." Practice heel-n-toe as slowly and gradually as you perfectly can. Master the first step first and then so on. I am by no means a professional driver but I'm miles away from where I first started by doing H&T this very way. After you've mastered each step put each step together in order. And then master the whole process. And don't be easily dismayed or disappointed. You can do it....it is possible.

Hope you can make one of our private track days next year at Hallett or TRP - I'd like to help you on the H&T if I can. Oh, and you can practice left-foot braking in the Denali. ;)
Shawn,

This is the first I have heard of multiple steps. Please elaborate.

Left foot braking in the Denali -- ha ha. When I'm in an auto vehicle, my left foot sleeps.
 
Heel-toe by trial and error

I wear a size 12 and I find that the NSX's brake pedal far too high relative to the gas pedal (and a little too far apart, too)to properly heel-toe with the left and right side of my foot. I'm no champion racer but I found what works for me:

I adopted more of the true heel-toe approach. What I mean by this is that under normal (non-heel-toe) relaxed city braking I leave the heel of my right foot on the floormat; my foot is big enough to use the gas/brake with my heel still resting on the floor. My toes are basically the part of my foot contacting the brake pedal. However when I want to heel-toe downshift, I lift my foot straight up a few inches so that the ball of my foot is the part making contact with the brake pedal. This seems to give me two advantages: (1) I can now blip the gas with the heel of my right foot without scrubbing the inside carpet/mat with my heel and (2) brake pedal feel is much more solid. After all if you're wearing flexible soled shoes your toes can bend; the ball of your foot cannot. So when I blip the gas my right foot is basically pointing at 10 o'clock.

Another problem I had was that I wasn't matching revs well. I was waiting too long to release the clutch...and that kind of defeated the purpose. I trained my mind to watch the tach now and let off of the clutch pedal very quickly, before revs can fall. More and more often now I am actually able to keep the needle steady through the whole process. It can be very rewarding and it sounds cool too. :)

If there was one piece of advice I could offer it would be to watch some Best Motoring videos! It shows you that this whole process takes only a blink of an eye.
 
MarkB said:
Shawn,

This is the first I have heard of multiple steps. Please elaborate.

Left foot braking in the Denali -- ha ha. When I'm in an auto vehicle, my left foot sleeps.

Master the "blip" first. Don't stay on the throttle, just tap it to the RPM level you want it to be at. Keep taping it until you get it right. Try shifting gears and blipping on a straight road. For example, blip from 3rd to 2nd. Clutch in...shift...blip...clutch out. If you over rev the engine and the engagement isn't smooth you know to lower or add the blip level a little...until you get it right...repeatedly. Now practice blipping while heel & toeing...and then keep refining it. You know you're getting better when you're comfortable heel & toeing while trail-braking or in a fast corner.

FWIW, I know of no other person in this community who would benefit from a Skip Barber/Bondurant driving school more than you. I can't imagine how much more comfortable and satisfying the track experience will be once you master this step.
 
Well since KGB has a size 12 and the pedals are too far apart, my size 7 means the gas pedal might as well be on the passenger side LOL..........................:):).

I could not heel and toe without updating the pedals. I used to be really good at it in my 914 which had the gas pedal pivoting at the floor, the NSX gas pedal is in never-never land for me with the stock pedal cover:).

HTH,
LarryB
 
Mark interresting thought about rigging a second throttle actuater.If the throttle sensor can respond to a signal from the pedel on the floor why not another one mounted where-ever.I still think you could try pedal extensions and wider shoes to cover both rather than classic heel-toe.Plus with your supercharger who needs to shift that much? ;) For me the shifting and downshifting is part of the fun and is a skill to be proud of.
 
arrr, heel and toe, there's some car you will have a very hard time doing it. But I still think that the nsx is one of the best. Maybe it is from Japan, so my avg. asain body works fine (size 10). I never master the toe and pinky, like some said here, it depends a lot on the shoes you wear. I found it being the gas pedal a little lower than the brakes, my lugz (with relatively high heel) works fine, then on the track, a thinner sole shoes give me more direct feeling and since I brake deeper (brake pedal travel) the thinner sole also help having the correct blip.

Yes, I would say the heel and toe is kind of hard to practice, since there's not a lot of room for you to practices in street drivings. The best would be downshift at the off ramp. but I heard that you hit the track a lot, so you should keep practicing. On track braking, you just try to memarize that instead of putting your whole foot on the brake pedal vetically (naturally), Forget the whole Heel and toe deal, here you approaching braking point, left foot cluth in, right foot put horizontally and instead of aiming your foot to the middle of the pedal, you are trying to offset it, so your shoe will press both pedals down at the same time. Downshift hand movement should be at the same timing as the left foot clutch....

it's kind of weird for someone like me without whole lot of track experiences giving driving advise to veteran racer... Don't rush yourself, keep practicing and you will pick up one time, then you will never forget. (it takes practice when you jump from one car to the other even after you master the skill.)

oh, on car equipment part, if you want to dedicate just to "get" the skill, put stock or softer pads or even a more wear pads, since both will increase the brake pedal travel relatively to the gas pedal. Good LUCK.!!
 
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Mark,

I came up with this about a year ago, never built it but I know it will work the control module will be easy to build and the sillinoid to blip the throttle is available form Pontiac Coil. http://www.pontiaccoil.com/html/standard.html
I have the pin out locations based on the 92 service manual, however the OBDII cars are different, since I have a 92 this is a mechanical approach using a sillinoid and the horn button on the steering wheel to trigger the throtle at the trottle body, I am using the clutch safety switch and the TCS switch to ensure that the horn will be a horn unless you want it to be a trottle blipper. Cost will be minimal, but with the throttle by wire set up there is probably a cleaner way, like tricking the ecu to seeing a throttle possition that is not really there since you are not really touching the pedal, I would have to see the newer service manuals to figure that one out but it should be a simply resistor of a fixed value that when put inline with the sensor to the trottle by wire tricks the ECU or TBW module into thinking the pedal has been pressed.

Just an idea but if you are interested than let ne know.

Dave
 
Hi, Mark,

Although I am only a first-year HPDE student, my heel-toe skill has improved over the year and now I can make it smooth about 98% of the time.

What I noticed in any car is that you really need to sit closer so that you can comfortably twist your ankle if necessary. The difference, when I perform heel-toe, between when I sit closer and when I sit a bit far (regular driving style) is immense. For instance, I am about 5'8'', but I need to pull my driver seat all the way to the front and adjust the back portion of the seat so that it's almost 90 degree to be able to comfortably heel-toe. Obviously, I do not drive like this during the normal drive, but heel-toe is much more difficult this way.

heeltoe.gif
 
I think instead for having electronics help you tap the throttle. You really just need to practice. It is really just the timing. of Clutch vs brake/trottle. This way you can heel toe to any manual transmission car.

I have found the best car to do heel toe is a FD RX7 for me.
Worst car is the the Mark II supra.

My NSX heel/toe pretty well. but it came with RAZO pedals.

I find that you are better of doing Heel/toe technique in a more aggressive movement. You really cannot do it in a slow matter because all the timing will be off. when you have to downshift 2-3 gear during braking. you really have to do it quick.
 
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