Thoughts

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First, thanks to Perry and Mitch for being Prime's on the spot correspondents. :) Perry, they made the Honcho/WingZ concept, brotha! :D

Some thoughts on the new car after having a night to sleep on it:

If you guys recall, the reaction to the original NS-X concept was that the design was "derivative" and "subdued". It's styling was castigated for being a cheap knock-off of a Ferrari 348 without the panache and class of the Italian design. Some of that is true. If you look at exotic sports cars from the late 80's and early 90's, they all have that low wedge shape. This was because the aero guys at the time thought this was the best shape for speed. Similarly today, it is no accident that the Veyron, 458, MP4-12C, R8, and yes, the NSX, all share the same basic shape. This shape is what the aero guys say is the best for speed. Thus, I don't hold it against Acura for using this shape.

The beak needs to go. Sorry, Acura. The beakless render looks 100% better. Also, the rear lights need to be canted inwards so they are not straight up and down. Go from this |__| to this /__\. Finally the wheels are ugly, but then again most concept wheels are hideous. Otherwise I think it is a gorgeous car.

As for US production, I agree with the concerns and also am skeptical. Case in point: my RDX was built in the US. It has more squeaks and rattles than my 20 year old NSX. I have had the car in twice for warranty work because the speakers keep falling out of their door mounts and shorting out. I have never trusted US workers to do a good job because they have no personal pride in their work and no sense of accountability. Building a car is a paycheck to them and they could care less if the car turns out good or not. The limit of their concern goes to doing just enough to make sure their manager doesn't fire them. These are not the kind of people I want building my NSX.

With that said, there are good business reasons to build the NSX here. First, Honda got spooked by the tsunami last year. Really spooked. Not only were their factories shut down causing a worldwide shortage of cars, but their parts supply chains were frozen too. This cost them billions of yen. Japan is situated in a very geologically actiive region. They are constantly exposed to devastating earthquakes, typhoons, tsunamis and even volcanic eruptions. By moving production to the US, Honda gains insurance that even if there is a disaster in Japan, they can continue producing cars and ensure a stable parts supply chain.

Second, the yen is killing Honda's competitiveness. In fact, one of the main reasons the NSX crept up so high in price was the rise of the yen over the last 20 years. This puts Honda in the unenviable position of having to keep product prices steady in the face of a rising yen. The only way they can do this is to cut costs in the cars. I think it's a big reason why they dumped the double wishbone in the Civic and dumbed down the interiors. Think about it. 10 years ago a NSX-R suspension was about $2,800. Now it is $4,500. Why? The yen! By building the NSX in the US, Honda can avoid some of that currency cost and keep the price more stable, which is critical for the NSX as we have seen.

I must admit this NSX Concept was more than I expected. It is the first concept that is in keeping with the original vision of the NS-X Concept. The HSC was really just a derivative NA3, nothing more. The HSV was a muscle car, nothing earth shattering. By contrast, the original NS-X concept had two main points to make to the world: reliability and incredible new technology (VTEC, Ti rods, 4Ch ABS, etc). This new concept shares that mission, but now the tech has changed. Today it's all about hybrids. This new NSX is taking up the flag like the first and is going to change the industry again. It think it would be so cool to turn a sub-8 minute lap on the Ring and get 40+ MPG on the way back home.

So, to summarize:

- Love the new design
- Lose the beak, or at least subdue it
- Tweak the tail lights
- Use good-looking wheels
- Please offer a proper manual gearbox! Use the tech from the CR-Z.
- Listen to Ito and stay laser focused on power-to-weight
 
I agree with you Honcho. I think the concept they delivered yesterday is solid. It needs some more refinement with some details, but I believe we have a worthy successor. This is much better than what occurred with the MR2-MR-S, 300ZX-350Z and Rx7-Rx8. Anyone that believes the R8 looks better needs to get off that German elitist coat tail.

-Wheels won't be an issue - production versions will always be more simplified, streamline and elegant

-Weight should be promising as the new NSX is supposedly shorter by height AND length. Only wider than the original. This is very exciting to me actually. I suppose it looks taller because it's shorter in length and the hood line IS taller than the original, which I wish they would shave down a bit. This is likely due to the pesky SH-AWD system.

-I honestly do not see a manual gearbox happening, but Honda may surprise with a R version? I can live with a 7 speed dual clutch. As long as it's still the latest fast tranny, unlike what happened with the LFA

-As long as the power breaks the 400 hp barrier and revs past 8500 rpm, I would be happy

-Price should not cap $100K. Estimates of $80K are interesting. If it does start around $80K, I see rising every year again until about $110K as they give improvements throughout the years. This seems to be the fad for a long time now.

-2 years would a better launch date, but I can live with 3. A 2015 NSX does not sound bad if it gets a late 2014 release date. People who complaining about it are getting a bit long toothed. It'll probably be 4-5 years before they release the R version and I can bet you that this coveted version will really give the rest of the supercars a run for their money - as in low 7s around the Ring.

-I made a post in another thread about how it's more important who and not where it's built. I guess people didn't get what I was saying... A few key Japanese techs can still oversee and work on the project on areas where they need the Japanese touch - engine assembly and chassis fitment. American plant workers can do the mundane and trivial stuff like cleaning and transporting from room a to b :rolleyes:
 
LOL They really did and I can't be more pleased! Trouble with the manual though is they have an electric motor right in the DSG so I doubt they'll make manual.

Thanks as people here are just too closed minded to understand why Honda had to make this car here. All three of the cars debuted will be made here. Plus let's not forget that quite a few products coming out of Japan are showing higher than normal radition levels. Thanks to the economy and wages drops making cars in the US has become the way to go for the Japanense and Europeans. I'm still shocked by the news though.

Honcho I totally didn't pay attention but in another thread a Honda employee in OH said that he saw ZR1 , R8 and some others being driven around by a group their who said they were getting feedback comparisons for the next NSX , but I never for a second thought that was becuase they were testing there. I expect to see the car over here in Michigan for testing as well.

Only two years till it hits market for us. Sucks to be the rest of the world that will have to wait another year:tongue:
 
I'm likely in the minority here but why the need for a manual trans? I understand the joys of rowing your own but an "auto" of some sort will be better in almost every other factor. I was once a non-believer but now I believe. A stick seems like a step backwards...

The bigger question in my mind is who will be this generation's Senna. Who will be a key contributor to the feel, performance, and driveability of this car that isn't an engineer.
 
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I'm likely in the minority here but why the need for a manual trans? I understand the joys of rowing your own but an "auto" of some sort will be better in almost every other factor. I was once a non-believer but now I believe. A stick seems like a step backwards...

The bigger question in my mind is who will be this generation's Senna. Who will be a key contributor to the feel, performance, and driveability of this car that isn't an engineer.

VERY good question- a great car is much more than a checklist of features.
 
I also have very high hopes for the Hybrid SH-AWD. Many, including myself, are discounting the Hybrid and SH-AWD technology and wonder why not just go with the tried and true V6 turbo or even a V8/10. However, I'm hopeful that the technology will shine and it will be unlike anything we've ever driven before. The concept of having two electric motors where one can independently power the car or regenerate say in a hard turn is very promising. The software demands on a setup like this will be intense. I really hope they get it right while ALSO keeping down the weight of the battery.

If they hit this out of the park (God willing) this could be a very very cool thing. If that ends up being the case, Honda should have introduced SH-AWD in the NSX first not the RL.

Wishful thinking? I hope not!

On a side note: Honda seriously needs to fire every single member on their existing marketing team.
 
If they kept the door scoop, an integrated spoiler, and had a 5 spoke wheel, I think the first impression would've been mucho better :biggrin:

I'm likely in the minority here but why the need for a manual trans? I understand the joys of rowing your own but an "auto" of some sort will be better in almost every other factor. I was once a non-believer but now I believe. A stick seems like a step backwards...

wow, the day that nsxprime embrace an "auto" will be the day:rolleyes: :biggrin:
(this was not directly at you RYU :wink:)
 
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Too bad the world is coming to an end this year. :frown:

Hey I used that one already:biggrin:.

Guys I just figured the two to three years timing. The ZDX. Pretty sure as abysmal as sales have been there won't be a second generation and it will have it's last year in 2014 so model wise when it drops out they bring the NSX to the line up.

Ironic as they slipped it in instead of the ASCC back when it came out.
 
Strangely enough, I find myself considering putting a deposit down, or at least getting on the wait list. I thought I'd never get rid of my 1991, but this car has me intrigued. Like I said, this concept is more than I thought we were going to get from Honda. If you read our old posts, they pretty much built the Honcho/WingZ Concept. If I can get it in Champ White with red alcantara interior, it's gonna be really hard to say no, even with the flappy paddle shifters.
 
Strangely enough, I find myself considering putting a deposit down, or at least getting on the wait list. I thought I'd never get rid of my 1991, but this car has me intrigued. Like I said, this concept is more than I thought we were going to get from Honda. If you read our old posts, they pretty much built the Honcho/WingZ Concept. If I can get it in Champ White with red alcantara interior, it's gonna be really hard to say no, even with the flappy paddle shifters.
you are just an excited fanboy:tongue:
 
I think we're all excited fan boys - even you Doc....it'll just take you about 10 or so years to get one - like me. I can't afford a 100k car and never will be able to. So for many of us "poorer" individual car fans it'll take a while to get a hold of the newest NSX! Let's hope for those ready and willing you won't have to wait more than 2 years....

I like it - the design - but as far as tweaking - what concept car doesn't get tweaked by the time it gets to the street - it will surely be tweaked. But it's gotta have the wow factor - if it doesn't then it won't sell.

I'm not worried about the HP - that'll take care of itself - I'm a lot more concerned about the handling. I hope they have some great race drivers helping them. But Honda knows it's going to be the flagship.

Hell look at what Hyundai is doing with the Genesis R Spec - faster 0-60 than a Panamera S - that's impressive. I expect Honda knows they have to do something really great here. Hope it's built in a special plant with a lot of Japanese crew chiefs watching the work really closely!
 
Is everybody forgetting that Honda, the ultimate backpaddler, has given itself three long years to change it's mind about their latest promise to bring back the NSX?

Other than showing us a shell and saying it will be built in Ohio, what do we really know?

What has changed in the world economy, Japanese economy, US economy besides the fact that they are all in the pits, for Honda to put in what will surely be hundreds of millions of dollars, in a very low production halo car?

If Europe goes down the toilet, as it seems about to, the Chinese exports will be affected and the US economy will be as well....why would Honda, the ultimate conservative car company, stick its neck out at this point?

Have we not heard this before? I do not buy it, at least not yet.
 
Is everybody forgetting that Honda, the ultimate backpaddler, has given itself three long years to change it's mind about their latest promise to bring back the NSX?

Other than showing us a shell and saying it will be built in Ohio, what do we really know?

What has changed in the world economy, Japanese economy, US economy besides the fact that they are all in the pits, for Honda to put in what will surely be hundreds of millions of dollars, in a very low production halo car?

If Europe goes down the toilet, as it seems about to, the Chinese exports will be affected and the US economy will be as well....why would Honda, the ultimate conservative car company, stick its neck out at this point?

Have we not heard this before? I do not buy it, at least not yet.
I certainly don't have all the answers but where have you been the last 2yrs? (no offense) The backlash of overall discontent from the Honda consumer has been laid on pretty thick. I think the NSX2.0 was not a choice but rather a necessity for survival.

I've said it before...my concern is the motive for this build. It's different when you're forced to do something (NSX2.0) vs. when you want to do something (NSX). Hope i'm wrong!
 
...It's different when you're forced to do something (NSX2.0) vs. when you want to do something (NSX). Hope i'm wrong!

How is Honda being forced to bring a new NSX to the market? The car is not likely to be profitable for them comparred to the econobox and semi-luxury cars that they are building now. The first gen NSX should have been completely revamped in 2002. They had 12 years to work on further development of the car between 1990 and 2002, but they were concentrating on ULEV instead. When they came out with HSC design in the early 00's, there was hope, but that project was scrapped. Then the HSV made an appearance and it was horrendous. Now, almost 25 years after the NSX made it's first appearance they want to reinvent the car. Too much, too late. The next NSX isn't going to captivate the audience that much. They lost me as new NSX owner 10 years ago.

I'll gladly keep my '94 NSX for another 18 years and be happy to have a classic car in my garage.
 
How is Honda being forced to bring a new NSX to the market?
No one can say for sure but that is my perception. The crappy 2012 Civic, the RL was the lowest selling car last year in all of America. They have so many other flops. Coincide that much of social media saying "they've lost their way"... that's got to be a big flame lit under Ito's behind to do something drastic.
 
Here's a funny thought on the concept car. 2002 NSX redesign made the NSX look similar to a manta ray. The 2012 NSX concept looks similar to a gazelle which I think is a good inspiration... since those suckers are quick and nimble lol.

Manta Ray:
Manta.jpg

vs 2002 NSX:
02nsx2.jpg


Gazelle:
thomspson.jpg

vs 2012 NSX concept:
67261308-09154130.jpg
 
How is Honda being forced to bring a new NSX to the market? The car is not likely to be profitable for them comparred to the econobox and semi-luxury cars that they are building now. The first gen NSX should have been completely revamped in 2002. They had 12 years to work on further development of the car between 1990 and 2002, but they were concentrating on ULEV instead. When they came out with HSC design in the early 00's, there was hope, but that project was scrapped. Then the HSV made an appearance and it was horrendous. Now, almost 25 years after the NSX made it's first appearance they want to reinvent the car. Too much, too late. The next NSX isn't going to captivate the audience that much. They lost me as new NSX owner 10 years ago.

I'll gladly keep my '94 NSX for another 18 years and be happy to have a classic car in my garage.

Actually it was the ASC (Advanced Sedan Concept) and ASCC (Advanced Sports Car Concept) that came after the HSC. Both of those were FUGLY. The HSC looked like a natural evolution of the NSX sans rear end. The HSV, although a FR setup, actually looks good IMO. The only thing in common the HSV has with the ASCC was the FR engine setup. ASCC was slated to be a V10, the HSV is a 3.4L V8.

Also, lets not forget the test mule S2000's Honda was testing at the 'ring. Did we ever find out what engines they were running in those things? were they MR? There was also that FR NSX that was being tested that we eventually found out had some sort of KERS system in it.
 
I certainly don't have all the answers but where have you been the last 2yrs? (no offense) !

No offense taken at all:smile:
I went and got myself not one but two GTRs, so impressed was I with that beast. I realized however that brute force and accerleration are great for bragging rights and discussing numbers, but I never forgot the pure pleasure I got from driving my "weakling" of an NSX [I had two '94s] or even the Miata for that matter.

I will be thrilled if Honda has suddenly found its way again, though I have learned not to hold my breath. I do not care if the car has 400 or 450 or 500+ hp, as long as it has a great wt/hp ratio and can handle. It must be priced right too, otherwise it might once again be a great sports/exotic that does not sell well and ends up costing Honda so much in the long run that they decide to not develop it further and just let it die......once again...
 
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