there are downsides to making too much money

[Psycnosis]

ahh, Let me guess you are talking about me. Ya, I never have traded a stock and don't know what a future is, ask O-ace I never talked with him on the phone about stocks, and I never posted a real-time trade in the "Stock Market" area or posted anything about the market. lol I don't have a certifited letter from the IRS for 147k due or else they put a lean on my home. I am full of shit I just want to be excepted by the folks on NSX prime. Please will someone show me how to trade so I can be kool. No one can make money in the market it's just impossable. And futures are Risky ya know, at least that is what everyone who does NOT trade them tells me and they know right? Keep giving your money to the mutual fund and stay in the bunker out back, things will be fine. 1 word investment sales lolrof!

Would anyone like to join me in calling out a certain poster on this thread as being fulll of $hit? Not only does most of his info not jibe with reality, the sheer exaggeration makes me laugh.

Interesting how people ask for advice from someone based on their inflated posts....

 

[Psycnosis]

Oh last thing check out the link to the stock stuff I have posted on, if you goto Avidtrader I have several years of stuff in the archives, but then again I could be making this all up to be excepted right

 

[steveny]

I would like to know our real tax rate in the USA when you factor in that not only are we taxed when we make the money but also when we spend it (don't forget property taxes.) I wonder how much of our income is really eaten up by all the taxes we pay throughout the year? Fuel tax, tabacco, etc., how much is it all together? 60% 75%?

The best way to reduce the amount of sales tax you pay is to buy items of quality that last long periods of time.

To add some more taxes/fees to your list:
School tax (whether or not you have children)
Taxes on cell and land line phone bills.
Landfill tax or fee
In NY recycling is added to your property taxes so you pay whether or not you recycle.

Then the fees
fee to get rid of old tires, I have seen a lot more tires in the ditch since this one was enacted
20 dollar fee to get rid of a refrigerator, just saw one in the ditch today.
fee to use state parks, and even more to launch a boat.
fee to drive on toll roads

Not only can the police annoy drivers by write tickets that have huge fines and raise your insurance rates now they have imposed a new 5.00 law enforcement fee which the state tacks on to all auto insurance bills in NYS. Must be they are not writing enough tickets.
I really think it is unfair to put any additional charges on a required mandatory bill, like car insurance.

What really puzzles me is if I fall short I have to cut back on my spending. If the powers that be fall short they just charge "we the people" more to meet their bad spending habits.

Either way I live in the best country in the world and if this is the cost I will pay, it is worth it.

 

[JChoice]

AFAIK, you're not supposed to pay in one lump sum but you can. You have to make your payments before the end of the year - if you wait until April 15th, you have to pay penalties.

 

[Psycnosis]

Yep and 1 lump sum = you make the intrest not them. I never did understand why people got so excited about getting money back, clam exempt keep the cash then pay them back not the other way around.

AFAIK, you're not supposed to pay in one lump sum but you can. You have to make your payments before the end of the year - if you wait until April 15th, you have to pay penalties.

 

[td2k_nsx]

just get a good accountant and tell him how much u want back.

 

[huckster]

hey, just to have a little fun here, I think you should notice that you want to be 'accepted by the members', unless you want them to except you, which it sounds like may be a possibility as well.

 

[LeftLane]

And it's a "lien", not a "lean", and "impossible", not "impossable", and "cool" instead of "kool". The reason I doubt you is because you don't seem too sharp on first (and second, and third...) impression, but maybe I'm wrong. And I guess you figure that because I have "investment sales" in my profile, I must not know what I'm doing, because it's not futures. I guarantee I have many more years than you working for one of the biggest investment bank/asset managers in the world, and what I've found in my years of experience is that the people who talk most about how great they are tend to be the most full of $hit.

Guess what? I can post trades too. And I can trade options and futures, and participate in private equity funds, and invest in tech hedge funds. Big deal. My point is, most of your posts have sounded just like a 15 year old trying to brag about how "kool" he is, with a bunch of stuff that doesn't add up.

By the way, why are you paying 2001 taxes now? If you are paying 2 years too late, you are not getting an interest free loan - you are paying interest and penalties. And if you are so flush with cash, what could the problem be that would cause you to delay taxes for several years?

Nice try.

 

[O-Ace]

pscynosis/ryan....they're on to you!

 

[Sig]

It's easy to counter your question by asking, Why is it fair for you to pay LESS in sales tax

While as a percentage of total relative tax, sales tax does have an incrementally higher relative value with low income earners, but you have omitted the most critical part of the equation. The drastically different rates of average consumption by income brackets. The revenues the govt receives from high-income earners not only from standard fed taxes but also from sales and other taxes are enormous. So the person who spends 100K per year on consumables is a huge asset to every taxpayer in country because they are the ones generating the revenue that keeps the IRS at bay. The IRS only cares about the revenues, not %'s. While there may be a relative tax % argument to made for sales/real estate tax.... it is a marginal one, and far outwieighed by the exponential difference in revenues going to the govt from the high income folks. The top % earners are the ones who keep the lower tax brackets from entering into a true socialist tax code. If the revenues weren't there then we would have a tax code like Germany or France and within 10 years of implementation, economic growth would cease to exist as we know it today. Then in turn we like them would be a nation almost wholly dependant on the state.


One of the more intriguing things that somehow escapes the public debate on our latest recession and the current economy is a true comparison to average industrilized nation's economy. The recession that started in early 2000 was a global recession and the U.S. was one of the last countries to be hit. Not only were we one of the last to get hit, we were also one of the first to get out of it and return to positive growth. Our good buddies France and Germany are still struggling while we have had many quarters of positive growth GDP. Our countries tax code, taken as a whole, is one of the main factors that drives this phenomenon. At least as compared to our socialist bretherens.

I ahve several people that I have done business with in Europe. Most of them wind up living in Switzwerland, yet do the bulk of their business in Germany. This is 100% to do with these nation's respective tax systems. So Switzerland attracts the citizens that any country would love to have and Germany retains their existing population and very little esle. Not to mention their struggle with borderline population shrinkage. What does a quasi-socialist nation do when the population shrinks and revenues to govt. show no ability to recover?? Panic. Unless they drastically change their economic policies, you will see panic in this and other like nations withing 10 years.

I am from a German family and think it is sad to see this unfold, but it is true.

 

[nsxtasy]

I would like to know our real tax rate in the USA when you factor in that not only are we taxed when we make the money but also when we spend it (don't forget property taxes.) I wonder how much of our income is really eaten up by all the taxes we pay throughout the year? Fuel tax, tabacco, etc., how much is it all together? 60% 75%?

Quoting from the link I previously posted:

"the U.S. leaves more to the private sector than most other developed countries and, for that matter, many less-developed ones. Government expenditures here account for just 22 percent of gross domestic product (source: World Bank, 1997), the lowest of any of the ten countries listed above for which that information was available (high: Italy, 49 percent; average exclusive of U.S., 40 percent)."

 

[nkb]

Yep and 1 lump sum = you make the intrest not them. I never did understand why people got so excited about getting money back, clam exempt keep the cash then pay them back not the other way around.

I'm no tax accountant, but I was under the impression that if you owe the IRS a significant amount two years in a row, then you don't have a choice, you have to pay quarterly taxes.

I would think the interest you make would be offset by the penalties you have to pay.

 

[huckster]

this is not completely relevant, but it is sad how delinquent taxes involving large amounts are often settled for significantly less, especially if lump sum payments are made. The penalties are waived even more frequently

 

[Psycnosis]

I forgot to file the taxes correctly and that got me a nice audit, so now I have to pay the REST of my taxes. You are right, I spell like crap and my vocabulary is not the best but I can trade the market pretty well. My wife is the smart one going to school to be a Dr. If you ever did talk with me I would NEVER talk money, never have never will. I CAN talk it on the Internet though because 99.9% of these people will never know me and it's nice to talk about trading with others. I know you can relate if you trade you can't just go up to someone and say "did you catch that wave 3 of the E-wave with the divergence at the point 1a on rotation? I am not a big shot at all and I am pretty damn conservative if you ask anyone. It's funny because I know a lot of people like you that can run others money but can not do it themselves if they had to. Anyway I hope you do well and don't let some 28-year-old punk get you all bent out of shape. Goto Avid read my 3 years of posts, hell you might learn something but I am sure you know it all already right?

And it's a "lien", not a "lean", and "impossible", not "impossable", and "cool" instead of "kool". The reason I doubt you is because you don't seem too sharp on first (and second, and third...) impression, but maybe I'm wrong. And I guess you figure that because I have "investment sales" in my profile, I must not know what I'm doing, because it's not futures. I guarantee I have many more years than you working for one of the biggest investment bank/asset managers in the world, and what I've found in my years of experience is that the people who talk most about how great they are tend to be the most full of $hit.

Guess what? I can post trades too. And I can trade options and futures, and participate in private equity funds, and invest in tech hedge funds. Big deal. My point is, most of your posts have sounded just like a 15 year old trying to brag about how "kool" he is, with a bunch of stuff that doesn't add up.

By the way, why are you paying 2001 taxes now? If you are paying 2 years too late, you are not getting an interest free loan - you are paying interest and penalties. And if you are so flush with cash, what could the problem be that would cause you to delay taxes for several years?

Nice try.

 

[Psycnosis]

lolrof, ya same thing happened at Avid. I posted my trade confirmations as well as my earnings everyday on line because people said I was full of it. After 2 weeks of that people got mad because I threw it up in there face so I just roam on there now and post very little. As you know people don't like to see others do better then them: D You still in the market?

pscynosis/ryan....they're on to you!

 

[Psycnosis]

Okay if you can why do you work for someone else? I do IT work to get out of the house because doing this full time at home was killing me, now I can still play with computers and trade. What's your reason? Like I said in my last post, I know people that have been doing this for 10-30 years, some can do it some can't and HAVE to work for others. Again I did have a great mentor help me out who has been doing this for 20 years and he is unreal. I wrote up some MACD setting for him that helped him stay in some trades longer. Oh well have a good one and don't work too hard making OTHERS big money

Guess what? I can post trades too. And I can trade options and futures, and participate in private equity funds, and invest in tech hedge funds. Big deal. My point is, most of your posts have sounded just like a 15 year old trying to brag about how "kool" he is, with a bunch of stuff that doesn't add up.

 

[chriswtx]

HA HA HA HA Just paid my taxes. I only pay 12% tax...... Oh wait, Crap thats bad...I need to found out how to get in the 35% range. Work smarter not harder.

 

[O-Ace]

You still in the market?

I'm taking time off for some other stuff. I'll be back in it later...this time with 50-100 lots ES

-awais

 

[Psycnosis]

Your a trip man

I'm taking time off for some other stuff. I'll be back in it later...this time with 50-100 lots ES

-awais

 

[O-Ace]

Your a trip man

Go BIG or go home Last day I hit it up to 20 ES and a few contracts in the YM and NQ at the same time...good times man, good times!

 

[nsxtasy]

From today's New York Times...

Time to Pay Taxes, but Who Is Really Paying?
By MATTHEW MILLER
Published: April 11, 2004

WITH April 15, comes the perennial debate over the fairness of the tax burden. Liberals say the rich pay too little; conservatives argue that the rich get soaked. Conservatives often cite these statistics: the top 5 percent of taxpayers pay 57 percent of federal income taxes, the top 1 percent 36 percent, and the bottom 80 percent a trifling 17 percent.

But this argument ignores the payroll tax, which finances Social Security, as well as excise taxes on things like liquor or tobacco. These take their biggest bite, proportionally, from lower-income Americans. Income tax will account this year for 42 percent of federal revenue; the payroll tax, 41 percent. If you count the payroll tax paid by employers (which economists generally agree comes out of workers' wages), four in five workers pay more in payroll taxes than income taxes.

The chart at right shows what happens when you consider this data: the top 1 percent of taxpayers earn 17 percent of the income and pay 23 percent of federal taxes; the top 5 percent earn 31 percent of the income and pay 40 percent of the taxes; the bottom 80 percent make 41 percent of the income and pay 31 percent of the taxes. In other words, the tax system is modestly progressive.

Matthew Miller is a fellow at the Center for American Progress.

 

[Psycnosis]

Just like I have said and seen all of my life, top 20% make 80% and it's like this in most things, jobs, the stock market, whatever.

 

[huckster]

well, i know this is a 'hot' topic, but maybe i'm not completely sure what this really says.

It sounds to me like you could conclude that the top 5% is paying a disproportionately high level of taxes. Last i checked, the top 5% included 180k and up. The majority in the top 5% were towards the lower end of the category.

Did i get this wrong?

I'm not sure how i feel about this. I remember working very hard for 33k annual, and they got a much smaller percentage which was a much smaller dollar amount obviously.

But in the upper income brackets, it is really hard to swallow the large amounts collected, and kept, by the irs. Not necessarily from me personally, but from people i know. For my part, ive always paid 28% or more.

I dunno, no right answers to this. I do think that people who make tons of money and write off down to little to nothing are doing us all a disservice.

 

[nsxtasy]

It sounds to me like you could conclude that the top 5% is paying a disproportionately high level of taxes. Last i checked, the top 5% included 180k and up. The majority in the top 5% were towards the lower end of the category.

Did i get this wrong?

I'm not sure what you're not sure about. Maybe you're not understanding the percentages shown? Those are the percentages of all income, of all income tax, and of all federal tax, paid by those in each part of the income distribution; they are NOT the percentage of the INCOME. For example, the top 5% earns 31 percent of all income, and pays 57 percent of all income tax. This does not mean that they pay 57 percent of their income in income tax; this only means that, of all income tax collected, the top 5% pays 57 percent of it.

Again, what this says is that the top 5% earns 31 percent of all income, and pays 57 percent of all income tax. Which means that they do pay a disproportionately high level of income tax; that's the whole idea behind a progressive tax (with higher percentages at higher levels of income). However, it also notes that the top 5% pays a disproportionately low level of payroll tax, offsetting the skew on the income tax; hence the last sentence about the system being only "modestly" progressive.

 

[huckster]

nope, what you said i got. it sounds like we agree on that.

im thinking that those making high levels of W2 INCOME are the ones getting schhrwewwdded.