Theory on the Origins Of Reality

[downwiz2]

Evolution is one theory that is not fully proven. Therefore, it's not yet a fact.

there are reasonable amount of evidences collected from Darwin's time, and even to this day. Also, constant new reveleations which strongly support evolution. evolution is hard to grasp because of the immense effect time has on universe. this is hard for us to comprehend. it took tremendous amount of time, from simple amino acids in the atmosphere to what we are today. i admit, its hard to believe that life originated from mere elements floating around in atmosphere, but evidence of time having tremendous impacts are all around us. for instance continental drift, fossils....see what time can do?

hell, we can all be living inside matrix, or brain in a vat. how can you prove that we are NOT a brain in a vat? :biggrin:

 

[710]

Gregor Mendel, who founded or spearheaded the theory of heredity, was a monk. Priests were not considered scientists -- they were scientists. Mendel used flowers as his subjects and cross-bred them to study genetics (at a rather elementary level).

Exactly.

I believe God, Jesus, Mohamed and Cinderella etc are all just as real. It’s all in your head. But fairy tales are for our own good so they have some good value.

I spoke to my dog and she believes the bone god is far more powerful and far above our silly people god. I didn’t have the heart to tell her she was wrong and I was right.
That we have a god and that the earth is the centre of the solar system/universe is just our observation at the time. Our egos let us insist that our observations and conclusions are right.
Humans have pretty big egos. We think we are the best. More importantly we think we are right.
The earth was flat when we knew it was.

Religion was science.
Today religion has become belief based on past beliefs. Dogma now.

Centuries before, religion was based on observations. Like science is now.
We think modern science is based on more logical observations than in the olde days, and it is.

What will people think in 10,000 years when they read what we are now saying about galaxies and quasars etc? They will think our science was pretty simple and only belief. (religion). Just like we think our forefather’s “science” was simple. Flat earth for example.

Anyway I believe god doesn’t exist. So it doesn’t.


but the devil DEFINITELY exists!:biggrin:

 

[nicholas421]

As a Christian (well, a half ass one),

You are not alone. I'll guess the majority of chirstians around the world are half-ass believers. There is only one explanation for this: they don't truly believe in the existence of God. Why else would they risk eternal suffering in hell by being half-ass believers? If there truly was a God and Hell... I for one would never even think about sinning.

sort of off topic question:
If I was a genius programmer, and I created a little universe in my computer... with artificial-beings who have free thought and free choice... would you say I have become a god?

 

[710]

sort of off topic question:
If I was a genius programmer, and I created a little universe in my computer... with artificial-beings who have free thought and free choice... would you say I have become a god?

Depends. Do you have a flat screen?

 

[Tebbnsxr]

Ridiculous Theory... Logical thought can only point to the fact there has to or had to be a creator. Now, I know my beliefs but I am not saying that the Christian God has to be the creator, however, The very idea that there has never been a supreme being or God/creator so to speak defies logical thought all together... Something CAN NOT come from nothing EVER. The very fact that we are here on this planet is an effect so the question is really, what caused us?? Well, we know not a big bang because that would suggest that we came from what? Nothing, which is not possible. Creation is yielded by a creator, plain and simple. Let me illustrate.


Take #399 Ferrari Enzo, Carbon fiber and exotic metals come together to form an automotive Masterpiece complete with a 600 plus HP engine, seats, and YES, a steering wheel. Now set this masterpiece on a awesome stretch of Nevada desert road. This car was built for a purpose and that purpose was to drive. NEVER in a Billion years of time and space would the Enzo ever create itself given the time to evolve, it would NEVER just be sitting there purpose built and ready to roll. Now, I know it is NOT living matter like humans are or animals or any organism but my point is that it was built or created for a purpose and we as humans are NO different. With all our complexities in body, mind, and spirit, we are still purpose built by intelligent design and to conclude otherwise is simply intellectual suicide. I don't know why it is so hard for people to believe? Maybe just there upbringing or the fact that they have been hurt and letdown by people they trust and care about, who knows? But, I think deep down that even if people don't admit they still have a part of their being that longs to believe and know that there is something out there that is much more than all this. Just my take on it guys.

 

[Ski_Banker]

Why else would they risk eternal suffering in hell by being half-ass believers? If there truly was a God and Hell... I for one would never even think about sinning.

I can't remember who I heard this from, but, for the business/finance crowd:

Even if the probability of there being an eternal hell is very very low (ie, you are really skeptical), the present value of this aweful consequence is very high.

 

[downwiz2]

If I was a genius programmer, and I created a little universe in my computer... with artificial-beings who have free thought and free choice... would you say I have become a god?

yes, then you would be a god. but note that there is one major difference between humans and artificial intelligence. Humans are capable of taking risks, artificial intelligence is not. so technically you won't be God, but you will be god.

the most hard part of understanding our origins on earth....is yet so simple. this similiar module can also be found in fractals, m-sets, and various math to describe how simple functions lead to extremely complex and chaotic natures.

life starts out from simple amino acids, forming lipids, self-replicating cells.....over tremendous period of time....its quite possible that this simple amino acids led to our existence today. of course it could also be not true, but i found this theory to be quite sensible....but the main question is

why? why were these simple amino acids joined together? why? what for? what is life?

it depends on your personality as to which belief you take on in life, so who's to judge?

 

[Tebbnsxr]

I can't remember who I heard this from, but, for the business/finance crowd:

Even if the probability of there being an eternal hell is very very low (ie, you are really skeptical), the present value of this aweful consequence is very high.

Originally Posted by nicholas421
Why else would they risk eternal suffering in hell by being half-ass believers? If there truly was a God and Hell... I for one would never even think about sinning.


Actually, if you were fully convinced it was all real, YES, you still would think about sinning and you would still do it. Why, because it is in man's nature to do it. If you buy into the Bible then you would understand that according to it that sin is in our nature. So, just as a dog does what he is programmed to do so to speak, so is man when he sins. I mean this based on the whole Christian model being true. So, sinning is really easy to understand you see. In fact the whole reason we need God is because of the very fact that we were never created to live independent from Him, thus our sin and our need for the plan of redemption that He set up. Pretty easy to see in theory I think?

 

[jond]

My take on Religion/Atheism:

I've never found someone who didnt believe in a creator who truly understood what they believed in. All have never really examined their beliefs fully. Although a lot of people separate religion from just the philosophical idea of a creator which is different.

Atheist dont realize their beliefs force them to have FAITH that MATTER either ALWAYS existed or spontaneously came out of nothing.
Kind of ridiculous sounding huh?

We're talking about what happened BEFORE TIME EXISTED!!! Science is useless here. I think a lot of atheist think they're smarter because they THINK their beliefs are based in science, when in fact, nothing could be further from the truth...
We're not talking about apes, bones, big bangs or ANY of that. That shit is 100% irrelevant to whether or not: matter either always existed, or a God created it.

The difference between atheists and religious people is, one side realizes they use faith. The other side has no idea they're using just as much.
Atheism IS NOT science. It is FAITH.

 

[avalon96]

The problem is, theory is to be proven to become fact. Evolution is one theory that is not fully proven. Therefore, it's not yet a fact. I'm having problem believing the champ I see in the zoon is where my ancester derived from, but that's my two cents.

Sorry to disappoint you, but evolution is a proven FACT. If I culture two cells in a petri dish, and the DNA of one cell mutates upon replication and mitosis so that the daughter cell is given a proliferative advantage, and that daughter cell outcompetes the other cell for nutrients so that it continues to proliferate while the other cell dies...guess what has happened -- EVOLUTION. FACT. What is not proven is if we (humans) evolved from a "primordial soup" rich in sulfur, nitrogen, etc. No one is going to be able to prove this, but evidence suggests it is highly likely.

BTW: Evolutionary theory does not suggest we come from the "champs" you see at the zoo. In fact, evolutionary theory suggests that even very similar looking species homo sapien and homo neanderthalensis coexisted as parallel lines of life in history.

The point is, you are welcome to your own religious beliefs. Just stop making these inaccurate comments on science. You wouldn't like it if a scientist made inaccurate comments about your religion (e.g. Jesus liked to play ultimate frisbee with Judas before the betrayal, and hence, ultimate frisbee is a direct violation of the eleventh commandment)

 

[jagtiger]

Can anyone of you explain where the atoms, dust, etc. that made up the entire universe came from?

Can you explain where the first bacteria, fungi, micro-organism etc that made life possible on this EARTH came from?? (and probably somewhere else in the universe)

If you really do believe in higher beings - would you agree that they are also part of the creation.



I dont believe that the tiniest particles, atoms. etc that made up every single bit the universe just appeared out of thin air!!

There are things in this world that are scientifically unexplainable.

 

[jagtiger]

We're not talking about apes, bones, big bangs or ANY of that. That shit is 100% irrelevant to whether or not: matter either always existed, or a God created it

Very well said!

 

[blackcat]

Sorry to disappoint you, but evolution is a proven FACT. If I culture two cells in a petri dish, and the DNA of one cell mutates upon replication and mitosis so that the daughter cell is given a proliferative advantage, and that daughter cell outcompetes the other cell for nutrients so that it continues to proliferate while the other cell dies...guess what has happened -- EVOLUTION. FACT. What is not proven is if we (humans) evolved from a "primordial soup" rich in sulfur, nitrogen, etc. No one is going to be able to prove this, but evidence suggests it is highly likely.

BTW: Evolutionary theory does not suggest we come from the "champs" you see at the zoo. In fact, evolutionary theory suggests that even very similar looking species homo sapien and homo neanderthalensis coexisted as parallel lines of life in history.

The point is, you are welcome to your own religious beliefs. Just stop making these inaccurate comments on science. You wouldn't like it if a scientist made inaccurate comments about your religion (e.g. Jesus liked to play ultimate frisbee with Judas before the betrayal, and hence, ultimate frisbee is a direct violation of the eleventh commandment)

Evolution is so apparent I can't believe people argue the point. Gee a place like Iceland or Norway and you have white people with very pale skin and blond hair.... A place like Africa with scorching sun and you have black people and darker hair. Have you ever seen animals with their appearances and surroundings. I guess a Polar bear became white because God just wanted it that way huh!!!!

I will say it again Religion is a Joke!!!

 

[avalon96]

I dont believe that the tiniest particles, atoms. etc that made up every single bit the universe just appeared out of thin air!!

If they appeared out of thin air, would it be that hard to believe? Air is 70 % nitrogen, 20% oxygen, and a mixture of these other "particles, atoms, etc." :biggrin:

 

[redshift]

i think i prefer string theory....

String Theory is a super set of quantum mechanics. :wink:

= 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ...
= 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + ...

Assuming this is a finite series, which is the only way it makes sense, you have:
= 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1
= 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1)

Which doesn't make sense because where did he get that extra 1?????. Keeping with his pattern, it should have been:
= 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1
= 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1)
= 0

So it would seem that poor mathematics don't prove god's existence after all. :wink:

I dont believe that the tiniest particles, atoms. etc that made up every single bit the universe just appeared out of thin air!!

Would you believe that all matter was created from light (pair production)? :smile:

We're talking about what happened BEFORE TIME EXISTED!!! Science is useless here.

I guess you have to subscribe to the idea that time is a constant then. Unfortunately this has been disproven using Einstein's relativity. You guys all know that time dilates and contracts depending on our "relative" velocity right? hehe, well take my word for it... many experiments have proven this. Of course, this does only define time dilating to the point of no longer going forward... it says nothing about going backward.

That shit is 100% irrelevant to whether or not: matter either always existed, or a God created it.

Einstein theorized that matter and energy are equivalent (E=mc^2) - only scaled by the square of the speed of light. We have defined metrics to validate the existence of "energy" and we use these metrics in science and engineering to create real world products. Does energy possess physical form?... no. Does it exist?... yes. Did matter always exist... depends on your definition of existence (see "energy"). Was it created by god?... if so, did god create itself? This does little to prove the existence of god. BTW, what the hell did I just say. :smile:

I will say it again Religion is a Joke!!!

I'm going to have to disagree. While I'm not particularly "religious" I do think religion has its place in our society. It teaches us ethics and morality, two ideas that are products of our society and modern socialization, which nonetheless are necessary virtues to live in our "reality." As far as god goes... well I can't say that I believe in an old man on his thrown, but it is a fact that we are all connected through the transfer of energy... I like to think of god as the ether that binds all things together (not good, evil, or even conscious) - just the medium that fills the space. As an Engineer, this is the way that I can rationalize it to myself. :smile:








Wow, I think I just expanded my own mind with all that. LOL! :biggrin:

 

[SCS2k]

String Theory is a super set of quantum mechanics. :wink:


Assuming this is a finite series, which is the only way it makes sense, you have:
= 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1
= 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1)

Which doesn't make sense because where did he get that extra 1?????. Keeping with his pattern, it should have been:
= 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1
= 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1)
= 0

So it would seem that poor mathematics don't prove god's existence after all. :wink:



Would you believe that all matter was created from light (pair production)? :smile:


I guess you have to subscribe to the idea that time is a constant then. Unfortunately this has been disproven using Einstein's relativity. You guys all know that time dilates and contracts depending on our "relative" velocity right? hehe, well take my word for it... many experiments have proven this. Of course, this does only define time dilating to the point of no longer going forward... it says nothing about going backward.


Einstein theorized that matter and energy are equivalent (E=mc^2) - only scaled by the square of the speed of light. We have defined metrics to validate the existence of "energy" and we use these metrics in science and engineering to create real world products. Does energy possess physical form?... no. Does it exist?... yes. Did matter always exist... depends on your definition of existence (see "energy"). Was it created by god?... if so, did god create itself? This does little to prove the existence of god. BTW, what the hell did I just say. :smile:

I'm going to have to disagree. While I'm not particularly "religious" I do think religion has its place in our society. It teaches us ethics and morality, two ideas that are products of our society and modern socialization, which nonetheless are necessary virtues to live in our "reality." As far as god goes... well I can't say that I believe in an old man on his thrown, but it is a fact that we are all connected through the transfer of energy... I like to think of god as the ether that binds all things together (not good, evil, or even conscious) - just the medium that fills the space. As an Engineer, this is the way that I can rationalize it to myself. :smile:

Wow, I think I just expanded my own mind with all that. LOL! :biggrin:

Very well put, and summarizes my feelings on the matter as well (no pun intended). I live in Chandler also, we should grab a beer (if you drink alcohol) some time, I'll buy.

 

[downwiz2]

String Theory is a super set of quantum mechanics. :wink:


Assuming this is a finite series, which is the only way it makes sense, you have:
= 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1
= 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1)

Which doesn't make sense because where did he get that extra 1?????. Keeping with his pattern, it should have been:
= 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1
= 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + (-1)
= 0

So it would seem that poor mathematics don't prove god's existence after all. :wink:



Would you believe that all matter was created from light (pair production)? :smile:


I guess you have to subscribe to the idea that time is a constant then. Unfortunately this has been disproven using Einstein's relativity. You guys all know that time dilates and contracts depending on our "relative" velocity right? hehe, well take my word for it... many experiments have proven this. Of course, this does only define time dilating to the point of no longer going forward... it says nothing about going backward.


Einstein theorized that matter and energy are equivalent (E=mc^2) - only scaled by the square of the speed of light. We have defined metrics to validate the existence of "energy" and we use these metrics in science and engineering to create real world products. Does energy possess physical form?... no. Does it exist?... yes. Did matter always exist... depends on your definition of existence (see "energy"). Was it created by god?... if so, did god create itself? This does little to prove the existence of god. BTW, what the hell did I just say. :smile:

I'm going to have to disagree. While I'm not particularly "religious" I do think religion has its place in our society. It teaches us ethics and morality, two ideas that are products of our society and modern socialization, which nonetheless are necessary virtues to live in our "reality." As far as god goes... well I can't say that I believe in an old man on his thrown, but it is a fact that we are all connected through the transfer of energy... I like to think of god as the ether that binds all things together (not good, evil, or even conscious) - just the medium that fills the space. As an Engineer, this is the way that I can rationalize it to myself. :smile:








Wow, I think I just expanded my own mind with all that. LOL! :biggrin:

seems like ur very good at math and physics.....do you think u could help me out on physics? seriously. i really need help on math and physics

 

[BadCarma]

Re: WOW FOLLOW UP AND EXPLAIN IT TO THE REST OF THE CREW

I think I prefer string theory....<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

<o></o>
Evolution is undeniable.... except in few schools in the states LOL.

<o></o>
<o></o>
I am with you I am down solid with 'String Theory' and as a Buddhist worship in a way that cannot be understood until you reach the point of understanding that which cannot be understood (string theory). I worship not Buddha but follow forth in his groundwork much like the early Greeks Aristotle, Plato; anyway this thread is much like string theory if you give it thought. <o></o>
Donwnwiz2, I have not seen any follow up with string theory and was rather surprised, the greatest leap forward since Einstein and we are able to prove the big bang theory and more important why it happened, was possible to happen and will happen again and again. <o></o>
I am just locked when I study that atoms are not the basic block and part of a string, a string that vibrates and allows atoms to exist in more then one place at a time. MIND NUMBING and it is the only Idea put forth that allows for all the BUTS. Yes but what about this... and it brings the blanket.plasma blanket theory in and fits nicely. Anyway I am not feeling well but am excited to hear someone else speak of it ever (string theory). I must rest due to my heart. I would love to read you writings and thoughts on string theory and I left the BIG secret for you to explain. The 'multiples' omni I think this crowd is well educated enough to not turn their collective noses up.<o></o>
Where are you studying quantum physics? Post grad work? Been a long time, man am I getting old<o></o>
Best Regards David<o></o>

 

[downwiz2]

o man....im not too crazy on physics...but its so interesting...because it describes the world in a way thats so convincing besides religion, i love reading my physics textbook :biggrin:

i just read some stuff on these things once in a while.

i am not postgrad LOL, i am a freshman....i don't think im smart enough to get to postgrad. hahahahaha

i'd love to study physics, but my physics mark are not the best in class neither are my math skills :frown:

 

[fannsx]

1- Evolution is a theory, not fact. I believe science can explain everything. It is just that we are still too stupid to use science to explain everything, including the origin of life. Maybe both evolution and religion are wrong .

2- Just because I am not religious, that does not mean I have no moral. Many people go to church, but commit crimes. Many people don't go to chruch or practice religion are the most moral people.

3-Religion is power, power is money. That's why chruches and temples have donation boxes. They can not exist without money. Someone very intelligent figured that out a long ,long time ago and used it to benefit himself.

4- You can not argue with faith.There is no explanation. It is like a definition.
It completely shuts you up. How can you argue when someone tells you that "I have faith and you don't.".

5-My children go to Catholic school. I always hated when they can home and learned that he or she was born with sin. A first grader is as innocent as the most innocent thing on earth. that's the beginning of brain washing. In Confusionism,people are born good.

6- That 1=1-1=0*0-1 stuff was just very bad Math.

&- one of the posts earlier simplified genetics way too much to just dominant and recessive traits. It is much more than that.

7- it is normal human nature to be afraid of dying. This is the basis of many religions, whether it is reincarnation or eternal heaven. Newton became very religious at his old age. Religion can serve people in this respect to give people some hope at the end of the road to accept death.

I am sure some of you will disaree with me in some or all these points. I will continue to follow this thread to listen and learn from you.

I am sure some of you will disagree with me.

 

[downwiz2]

2- Just because I am not religious, that does not mean I have no moral. Many people go to church, but commit crimes. Many people don't go to chruch or practice religion are the most moral people.

3-Religion is power, power is money. That's why chruches and temples have donation boxes. They can not exist without money. Someone very intelligent figured that out a long ,long time ago and used it to benefit himself.

4- You can not argue with faith.There is no explanation. It is like a definition.
It completely shuts you up. How can you argue when someone tells you that "I have faith and you don't.".

couldn't have put it any better, although i still believe religion still gives comfort and its a good thing. i don't see it as bad ,just when people, zealous individuals, and organizations abuse it and defiles the good name of the religion.

 

[Tebbnsxr]

I am glad we can all chime in here with our diff. beliefs etc. I am sure you are all smart, beautiful people but you are ALL WRONG!!! hahaha... JK...:smile: Anyway, I think that most likely there has to be some form of absolute truth out there. Maybe God, maybe not? But, nevertheless, it just makes sense. That's why I felt like my college philospophy class was such a waste of my time. Philosophy does not really make one think rationally but irrationally, and that line of thinking makes NO common sense. I HATE relativism, it is so anti-rational and I think we are living in the most dangerous time in history when anyone can be right no matter what they themselves think personally. Truth, that is absolute truth, can NEVER be relative...

 

[fannsx]

Frequently orgaizations start for a good cause on a small scale. Then they become larger with more politics money and power. Then some individuals start taking advantage of peoples good nature. It is sad but often true, whether it be a religious or charitable organization. I still respect the moral good nature part of religion. There is no need for religion to explain the origin of life.

 

[downwiz2]

That's why I felt like my college philospophy class was such a waste of my time. Philosophy does not really make one think rationally but irrationally, and that line of thinking makes NO common sense.

me too. i effin hate Epistemology....this is the philo course im taking right....how do we know we are not living in the matrix?

simple. theres no NSX in my garage yet.

 

[redshift]

Very well put, and summarizes my feelings on the matter as well (no pun intended). I live in Chandler also, we should grab a beer (if you drink alcohol) some time, I'll buy.

Let's definately grab a beer sometime (drinking is something I do well :wink!

seems like ur very good at math and physics.....do you think u could help me out on physics? seriously. i really need help on math and physics

Well... I don't know how good I am... I just took a lot of math and physics during my undergrad (minored in both). I think the pool of mathematics is driven forward and expanded on by physicists as they require better "tools" (read: math) to solve more complex problems. As a matter of fact, physicists are the best mathematicians I know (i.e. better than actual mathematicians). Now that I've started graduate work in Computer Science, I fear that I'll never see the academic side of math or physics again. :frown:

As for your question, sure I'll help you in physics... as much as my time permits. :smile: