The Viper guys are saying some nice things...
- Thread starter Marvin Lee
- Start date
Yes, but I also know how well even the stock brakes stand up to repetitive lap after lap brutalizing. BTDT. I drove mine bone stock on the track for quite a few years before making the upgrades that Ponyboy mentions.
I have not noticed any difference in rotor life due to the brake pads used - and I have tried most of the better ones on the market.
Vik, come to one of our GingerMan events. I'll take you for a ride around the track - either in my NSX (stock calipers, aftermarket pads, rotors, ducts) or in yours (still stock for now, I assume) - and I'll show you just how fantastic those stock brakes are.
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 29 January 2003).]
I have not noticed a significant difference in rotor wear also. But I do go thru two sets of pads in a season, 13-15 OT/AX events a year.
To get the most out of the stock calipers:
- high performance pads
- high temp fluid
- brake ducts
- maybe SS lines
- R compound tires
Great stopping power, great feel, pretty easy modulation to threshold. No complaints here!
To get the most out of the stock calipers:
- high performance pads
- high temp fluid
- brake ducts
- maybe SS lines
- R compound tires
Great stopping power, great feel, pretty easy modulation to threshold. No complaints here!
just so this dos'nt seem one sided,I ran with the above mods to stock callipers for 1.5 seasons(yes we have hpde seasons in the NE) and found I needed more fade resistance and better bite, which I got with a bigger kit,your mileage may vary.
Absolutely. I think it would be a great learning experience to sit with an experienced driver and watch him push (and stop
I'm a quantitative guy (you have to be to somewhat of a degree if you attend the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business
Regards.
Just read the thread on the Viper board... seemed pretty civilized and the minor inaccuracies (tires, difference between '91 and '02, etc.) no biggie.
A Viper is certainly on my list of cars I'd like to own one day... I'm thinking a Yellow ACR with a black stripe... the last year of the GTS body style so I'd have the ABS... hey, given how aggressive and over the top these cars are, you might as well go all the way
I've driven Vipers fairly extensively... two stock GTSs, an RT-10, and a modified GTS with near 500HP.... they're beasts, they're American in quality, the hood goes on forever... but damn, the torque. You can be in any gear and the power is simply there, and a lot of it.
They're difficult to drive hard, but if you have the skills they are incredibly track worthy (Paul Mumford and many others I've shared Willow Springs and other tracks with more than prove that)... though I don't care for the visibility and road feel...
The other day my good friend who owns a GTS and I swapped cars back and forth (I was driving my 360) and it's amazing how cars with similar performance can be so VERY different... the Viper seemed very large and unwieldy, but torquier, and the 360, when I hopped back in, a tight, precise go-cart
Anyways...
Oh, as for brakes, having tracked my Zanardi extensively I honestly like its braking better than any of my cars...
The S2000's brakes are a little weak, but feel good.
The 996TT's brakes are powerful, but you really have to push on them before they really grip (much like the rest of the car in spirit: the suspension doesn't seem tight until you push it, the engine is mellow until you wind up the turbos, etc... the car is meant to be relaxed until you really get on it, which overall is fine, but I just really like brakes that grab right away).
The 360's brakes grab a little inconsitently... the car does brake better than the Zanardi, but the NSX's feel is smoother, more progressive, and more predictable.
As for track readiness, the Zanardi, 360, and 996TT are all great -- I've not experienced fade or any other issues, even after many laps at various tracks, driving at 8/10ths. Only the S2000 seems a little weak after driving it hard, but I forgive it
The most disappointing brakes I've encountered were my friend's Integra Type R's... I think the first time he tracked it the brake fluid boiled and he had fade... he had to put different pads on it, bleed the brakes, and put in higher grade fluid, which I thought was pretty lame... if Honda's going to call a car a Type R they damn well ought to put trackable-grade brake fluid in it stock.
-Z18
A Viper is certainly on my list of cars I'd like to own one day... I'm thinking a Yellow ACR with a black stripe... the last year of the GTS body style so I'd have the ABS... hey, given how aggressive and over the top these cars are, you might as well go all the way
I've driven Vipers fairly extensively... two stock GTSs, an RT-10, and a modified GTS with near 500HP.... they're beasts, they're American in quality, the hood goes on forever... but damn, the torque. You can be in any gear and the power is simply there, and a lot of it.
They're difficult to drive hard, but if you have the skills they are incredibly track worthy (Paul Mumford and many others I've shared Willow Springs and other tracks with more than prove that)... though I don't care for the visibility and road feel...
The other day my good friend who owns a GTS and I swapped cars back and forth (I was driving my 360) and it's amazing how cars with similar performance can be so VERY different... the Viper seemed very large and unwieldy, but torquier, and the 360, when I hopped back in, a tight, precise go-cart
Anyways...
Oh, as for brakes, having tracked my Zanardi extensively I honestly like its braking better than any of my cars...
The S2000's brakes are a little weak, but feel good.
The 996TT's brakes are powerful, but you really have to push on them before they really grip (much like the rest of the car in spirit: the suspension doesn't seem tight until you push it, the engine is mellow until you wind up the turbos, etc... the car is meant to be relaxed until you really get on it, which overall is fine, but I just really like brakes that grab right away).
The 360's brakes grab a little inconsitently... the car does brake better than the Zanardi, but the NSX's feel is smoother, more progressive, and more predictable.
As for track readiness, the Zanardi, 360, and 996TT are all great -- I've not experienced fade or any other issues, even after many laps at various tracks, driving at 8/10ths. Only the S2000 seems a little weak after driving it hard, but I forgive it
The most disappointing brakes I've encountered were my friend's Integra Type R's... I think the first time he tracked it the brake fluid boiled and he had fade... he had to put different pads on it, bleed the brakes, and put in higher grade fluid, which I thought was pretty lame... if Honda's going to call a car a Type R they damn well ought to put trackable-grade brake fluid in it stock.
-Z18
Z-18,
impressive stable!
BTW,how did you get all four cars to McD's?
impressive stable!
BTW,how did you get all four cars to McD's?
It was an awesome day... I and three of my friends hopped in the cars while I silently said many prayers and crossed my fingers, and we drove up to Willow Springs for the day, and tracked them all and took a bunch of pictures and video.
I was nervous, and I probably won't do it again for a long time, but looking back I'm glad -- it was fun to have them all together, and to compare them on the track on the same day when one's memory is fresh. That, and my friends were very careful and did an awesome job.
-Z18
I own an Integra Type R and have tracked it extensively. I can assure you that your friend's car's performance is not typical for the ITR. Its stock brakes are simply awesome - straight from the factory, with factory pads and fluid. I have never experienced any boiling or fade (aside from "green pad syndrome" with brand new pads), either with the stock pads or aftermarket, with stock fluid or aftermarket. And I am certainly not gentle on the car, since I'm now on my fourth set of front brake pads after 15K miles that include 1600 actual track miles.
I've tried several different top-quality aftermarket pads (Endless CC-X, RM Racing) in addition to the stock pads, and the performance was virtually identical, although the stock pads didn't last quite as long (in terms of track miles) as the others.
While it's difficult to guess at a problem without having complete information, my guess is that his brake fluid was probably old at the time he tracked his car. Over time, brake fluid absorbs moisture, which lowers its boiling point. When the brakes boil, they become ineffective - same symptom as fade from inferior pads that can't handle heat (unlike the stock pads).
Assuming this is the cause, I think your friend's lack of proper maintenance of a car that goes on the track is pretty lame... if he's going to drive a Type R he damn well ought to keep fresh brake fluid in it.
If this is not the cause, then there is something else wrong with his car or the way he is driving it. I can assure you that the stock ITR pads and factory fluid are not to blame.
Can I be your friend?
Z18,
That's a nice set of cars you have there. I think McDonald's shoulda used that pic for an ad or something. Btw, of those cars, do you have a favorite or do you love 'em all just the same.
That's a nice set of cars you have there. I think McDonald's shoulda used that pic for an ad or something. Btw, of those cars, do you have a favorite or do you love 'em all just the same.
kld12,
also Shell in the background should sponsor him!
also Shell in the background should sponsor him!
