The Uber Honda....focus now and do not be distracted!

[N Spec]

Over engineering is NEVER worthless. Not today, not yesterday and not tomorrow. Over engineering is what produced the bullet proof Benz cars of the 60's and 70's. Over engineering is what gave Honda and Toyota their status as the ultimate cars in reliability.

Over engineering for reliability and longevity works. Over engineering for extreme performance works as shown by the Honda F1 engines.

I never said it was worthless, I am saying it is lopsided right now. It should be balanced. Although I am speaking figuratively, the current shape and aesthetics has manifested this lopsided battle of engineering vs. design.

Why can't I be demanding of Honda or any other company? Why can't they make a highly engineered and beautifully sophisticated car? Especially when they demand such top dollar for it. They already established that they can engineer very well, let's take it to the next level and make beautiful cars that function well. That's all I am saying, even Hyndai has proven that they can engineer well.

Let's break the mold and push for innovation, not bragging rights. You can't brag if you're car looks silly or like a $30,000 Tiburon. The GTR is a design evolution given the changes from R34 to R35. It looks a lot better, although it still appears to be a big beastly sedan. The new TL is more of a design mutation when compared to the previous elegantly designed TL. All I am saying is Honda has made some quirky design directions and maybe they should source Pininfarina or Giugiaro for some consulting.

 

[liftcontrol]

Nspec, for you and some others here, there is nothing wrong with having made your mind that the next HONDA super car is not for you and you may feel that the GT-R or any other car is.

But to trash talk the upcoming NSX replacement and to dismiss the very essence of the car, ENGINEERED GREATNESS/ENGINEERED PERFORMANCE, is petty.

Ferrari and Lamorghini, due to their name, can throw out one model after model, with ever increasing hp figures; their engineers probably say SCREW THE QUALITY, just squeeze out another few hp, make the car look like a Ferrari or a Lambo and the idiots out there will buy it.:frown:

HONDA san does not have that luxury and thankfully nor do they have that kind of culture. They cannot and will not put out a car, whether a basic Civic or an NSX replacement that is anything but the best they can ENGINEER. If you or any others do not like their shape, so be it. True beauty lies far deeper than the skin and HONDA is a car company that proves it over and over again.:smile:

All I ask of HONDA in the looks department for their next halo car is that it not be ugly. Based on even the preliminary sketches it appears that the car is to be handsome. Perhaps not the pretty Ferrari :tongue: that is imprinted in the minds of so many as the ideal of automative beauty, but handsome nonetheless in its own way and not apologetic for it. Handsome with the confidence of its true merit.......performance and engineering excellence, second to none.

HONDA's beauty is truly NOT skin deep. That is my kind of beauty. That is the kind of beauty that has held a spell over so many on this forum and around the world. The kind of beauty that has caused me to hold on to my beloved NSX hoping against hope that HONDA will make another deeply and TRULY beautiful car one day and I will be lucky enough to bring it home and park it next to my NSX. That my friend, is a true believer's love for HONDA. And HONDA is about to reward that trust with another mechanical marvel. One that I and others can hardly wait to get our hands on.:biggrin:

 

[BD]

Liftcontrol. You are absolutely right. Whether F and L make a good car, people will always line up to buy them. This illusional pedigree is what sells them, not the car it self.

As I have always indicated, let's wait and see what this new Honda can really do. It's going to be a good car.

 

[NeoNSX]

The new 2008 CBR1000RR/Fireblade, is engineered out the ass and everyone agrees that it has seen increase in acceleration and performance. Keep in mind that the superbike category is pushing the threshold and that the 4 main competitors are so close in performance each year that the differences in numbers are very little. Each year, one bike wins over all of the others by some small arbitrary decision. Everyone is deeming that the new Honda 1000RR is the best bike this year, but everyone also agrees it's ugly as ballsack.

The superbike category is a fine example of Honda's direction. These are the fastest bikes overall in the world, but they are all so close in performance and the key factor is that the riders are only capable of extracting a certain number because they are only human. Who cares if the new 1000RR is 2-3 seconds faster on the track or .2 sec faster on the 1/4 mile. That could be purely driver error. It's ugly as hell and I would rather ride the last gen 1000RR and still perform closely.

Looks are subjective. I have to disagree with you about the looks of the 1000RR... i think looks as awesome as the bike performs. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[liftcontrol]

Next NSX is not a $180k car.......per Autoblog

Acura is slated to release its NSX replacement sometime around the turn of the decade, but despite what you may have heard circulating the 'Net, it's not going to be priced to compete with Ferrari and Lamborghini. There's little doubt that Acura's 500+hp, V10-powered super sled has Italy's finest in its sights, along with the perennial show queen, the Lexus LF-A, but even with current exchange rates between the Japanese yen and the U.S. dollar, the successor to the NSX won't be carrying a sticker around $180,000. After contacting Mike Spencer, one of Acura's press people, he confirmed that the comments he made were taken out of context:wink: and that definitive pricing for the new vehicle is still a long way off. He would only say that the exchange rates would have an effect, but it would be unfair to attempt to guesstimate on price this early in the game. Considering that the last NSX was knocking on the $100k door before it was killed off in 2005, we'd expect a higher sticker for the next model, but pulling a number out of the air, comparing it to other vehicles in the segment and claiming it as fact, is hardly fair. As such, we'll wait for a formal announcement from Acura so you can start saving your pennies for the NSX's upcoming replacement.

 

[liftcontrol]

NSX replacement exercising on the 'Ring again

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080828...a-nsx-caught-powering-round-nurburgring-again

 

[BD]

 

[WingZ]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080828...a-nsx-caught-powering-round-nurburgring-again

Thanks for the vid and the pics. Hey Vance anyway you could photoshop those pics in LBBP for a brutha:biggrin:

 

[N Spec]

Pretty good looking renderings. I like the clean details. The exhaust is till a mess tho and so is the size. What were they thinking about the exhaust detail tho seriously? All in all, it's good looking rendition, but we shall see the real unvealing.

 

[TigerNSX]

What will Honda do with the price? It will be interesting to watch. I hope they are successful! If its over $150k they need to offer something more than just speed...or their market will only be Die Hard Honda Fans and maybe smaller than the originalNSX run. ( The 1st NSX offered performance, quality, and exotic looks and unique mid-engine layout. That was a nice list of perks for the money.... during the 90% of-the-time that you weren't riding at over 120 mph)

NSXBat,

I think that you are providing a very compelling point here. I agree with you.

My logic tells me that the majority of us here in this forum may not be the target customers if the new NSX is over $150K. Most of us on this forum purchased the NSX second-hand, priced anywhere from $25k - $80k.

If NSX is priced anywhere between $100k-$150k, it will compete against heavy-hitters (with prestigious names) like slightly used F360, Ford GT, Gallardo, R8, DB9, DB7 Vantage, Porsche GT3, Porsche TT and etc. It's really crowded in the exotic car market. Will the new NSX be able to reach the sales goal in this category? It would be a tough battle.

The sweet spot will be, I would guess, $80k-$100k, directly competing against the GTR and Porsche 911 S, but with more sophisticated technology and performance. Honda will probably be able to sell more in this price segment. However, does Honda really want to benchmark the NSX against the GTR and Porsche?

The real question for me what the NSX represents. Will it be the Ferrari / Lambo fighter with equal or better performance, unmatched reliability, easy to use, easy to work on, inexpensive to maintain at 50% of the price? Or will it be Honda's Halo car that shows the world what Honda can do once again?

One thing we know for sure is that the new NSX needs to be backed by Honda's continuous and strong marketing support to "spread the word" if they want to achieve its sales and brand goal. However, once again, this will cost $$$ for Honda.

 

[liftcontrol]

You make some good points. Pricing the NSX replacement will be tricky and of key importance.

The Nissan GT-R has thrown the monkey wrench into the pricing equation. I will not be surprised if that was one of main reasons the LF-A pulled out. The NSX replacement will have to offer better performance at a price that is not significantly more.

I hear that the GT-R V-spec is going to be priced around $150k [520hp and 200lbs lighter, with extensive use of carbon fiber and deletion of the rear seats]. I do not believe the V-spec will be a very high volume car as it is mainly tuned to be used on the trac.

The NSX replacement on the othe hand will or can be used as a daily driver and will therefore have the 911 Turbo and the non V-Spec GT-R as the competition when it comes to performance and the F-430 and Aston when it comes to interior appointments. Based on this I can make a semi intelligent guess and feel that the uber HONDA will be priced around anywher from $100 to 130k range. I feel that if priced significantly over the price of the 911 Turbo, that it will meet with limited sales success.

HOWEVER, the other thing to consider is this. DOES HONDA EVEN WANT THIS CAR TO BE SOLD IN SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OR DO THEY JUST WANT THIS TO BE A TECHONOLOGICAL MASTERPIECE, SOLD IN LIMITED NUMBERS AND PRICED IN THE 150 - 200 RANGE. I hope this is not the case.

Waiting with great anticipation.

 

[WingZ]

NSXBat,

I think that you are providing a very compelling point here. I agree with you.

My logic tells me that the majority of us here in this forum may not be the target customers if the new NSX is over $150K. Most of us on this forum purchased the NSX second-hand, priced anywhere from $25k - $80k.

If NSX is priced anywhere between $100k-$150k, it will compete against heavy-hitters (with prestigious names) like slightly used F360, Ford GT, Gallardo, R8, DB9, DB7 Vantage, Porsche GT3, Porsche TT and etc. It's really crowded in the exotic car market. Will the new NSX be able to reach the sales goal in this category? It would be a tough battle.

The sweet spot will be, I would guess, $80k-$100k, directly competing against the GTR and Porsche 911 S, but with more sophisticated technology and performance. Honda will probably be able to sell more in this price segment. However, does Honda really want to benchmark the NSX against the GTR and Porsche?

The real question for me what the NSX represents. Will it be the Ferrari / Lambo fighter with equal or better performance, unmatched reliability, easy to use, easy to work on, inexpensive to maintain at 50% of the price? Or will it be Honda's Halo car that shows the world what Honda can do once again?

One thing we know for sure is that the new NSX needs to be backed by Honda's continuous and strong marketing support to "spread the word" if they want to achieve its sales and brand goal. However, once again, this will cost $$$ for Honda.

LOL The $25k NSX rears it's head.

Well Tiger you have to ask yourself in you were a business would you target people who bought your product second? Even if Honda brought the car in at $90k few here would buy it new and just wait to get one used.

Lambo doesn't really offer anything in the same market segment but to post the ring times that they want it's pretty same to assume it will indeed surpass Ferrari and Lambo.

The same questions you posed were put on the NSX when it first came out as no Japanese car had ever been priced that high. It did okay for awhile and then dropped off.

You make some good points. Pricing the NSX replacement will be tricky and of key importance.

The Nissan GT-R has thrown the monkey wrench into the pricing equation. I will not be surprised if that was one of main reasons the LF-A pulled out. The NSX replacement will have to offer better performance at a price that is not significantly more.

I hear that the GT-R V-spec is going to be priced around $150k [520hp and 200lbs lighter, with extensive use of carbon fiber and deletion of the rear seats]. I do not believe the V-spec will be a very high volume car as it is mainly tuned to be used on the trac.

The NSX replacement on the othe hand will or can be used as a daily driver and will therefore have the 911 Turbo and the non V-Spec GT-R as the competition when it comes to performance and the F-430 and Aston when it comes to interior appointments. Based on this I can make a semi intelligent guess and feel that the uber HONDA will be priced around anywher from $100 to 130k range. I feel that if priced significantly over the price of the 911 Turbo, that it will meet with limited sales success.

HOWEVER, the other thing to consider is this. DOES HONDA EVEN WANT THIS CAR TO BE SOLD IN SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS OR DO THEY JUST WANT THIS TO BE A TECHONOLOGICAL MASTERPIECE, SOLD IN LIMITED NUMBERS AND PRICED IN THE 150 - 200 RANGE. I hope this is not the case.

Waiting with great anticipation.

I have to disagree LC as the GTR is a different type of car. It's priced the way it is as it doesn't really use any exotic components. Wanting a V10 to be priced near the sticker of a V6 is kinda silly. Some people do prefer NA to turbos. Turbos are really a less expensive way to get power. Honda has decided to make this a top notch car all the way around ,but even in this they will price the car competitively.

People have not had the chance to choose between a $100k Honda or an Aston before. If the Honda outperforms and has better build quality ( both of which will be a big YES ) think people are going to buy a really inferior car because of the badge? I say some yes and some no.

We don't know what a finished car will look like either. Once the get the performance down they'll tweak the the styling somewhat ,but the did make clear they were/are going for performance over design. Let's wait and see where that takes it.

 

[liftcontrol]

I have to disagree LC as the GTR is a different type of car. It's priced the way it is as it doesn't really use any exotic components. Wanting a V10 to be priced near the sticker of a V6 is kinda silly. Some people do prefer NA to turbos. Turbos are really a less expensive way to get power. Honda has decided to make this a top notch car all the way around ,but even in this they will price the car competitively.

.

Wing, I do not mean to say that the GT-R and the upcoming v-10 HONDA should be priced alike at all. If you read again , I wrote that range should be 100-130k which is clearly very well above the GT-R's price even with the 10% price hike that Nissan just slapped on that pig.:biggrin:

 

[WingZ]

Wing, I do not mean to say that the GT-R and the upcoming v-10 HONDA should be priced alike at all. If you read again , I wrote that range should be 100-130k which is clearly very well above the GT-R's price even with the 10% price hike that Nissan just slapped on that pig.:biggrin:

Sorry LC I meant that I disagree with the train of thought that the GTR threw a wrench in the pricing equation not that you think they should be priced alike.

Several people keep posting things like "why should I pay more for the Honda since the GTR is cheaper" when clearly one is using much cheaper materials and engine type to merit the same price.

 

[liftcontrol]

Several people keep posting things like "why should I pay more for the Honda since the GTR is cheaper" when clearly one is using much cheaper materials and engine type to merit the same price.

I agree, that thinking is completely flawed. Even a souped up Mitsu EVO or Subaru can keep up with cars costing four times as much, but they are in a totally different league. Outright speed is just one part of the equation. The NSX replacement is to be a complete package, inside out. It will be in the league of true flagship super cars.

 

[WingZ]

I agree, that thinking is completely flawed. Even a souped up Mitsu EVO or Subaru can keep up with cars costing four times as much, but they are in a totally different league. Outright speed is just one part of the equation. The NSX replacement is to be a complete package, inside out. It will be in the league of true flagship super cars.

Couldn't have said it better:biggrin: